Repeating Programs - Pros and Cons

[andromache]

Most of discussion here is actually interesting and productive, though I'm a little surprised at how harsh some are on the repeaters. For the most part, when skaters end up repeating a program they really do make it better. And man, choreography is expensive. And there's only so much time in a day. Plus, I would bet money on Ashley Wagner not being the only skater whose memory is affected by concussions (which is really pretty scary, FYI.)

 

[chillgil]

^^^ yeah my b if i came across harsh before in my other post about critiquing this thread-obviously there has been some good discussions here however i was just pointing out that after 4 pages we're kind of stuck in a rut where a poster says one thing and the next poster says the opposite and it goes on and on like that. (and i get that that is what happens in discussion it's just that there aren't any facts being presented-only opinions so it's easy to just get into that "well i think this" "no, i think this") i was just getting tired of it so sorry if i offended u @maikatze, perhaps this is not the place for me to complain about these kinds of things-considering it's a forum after all lol

 

[LRK]

^^^ yeah my b if i came across harsh before in my other post about critiquing this thread-obviously there has been some good discussions here however i was just pointing out that after 4 pages we're kind of stuck in a rut where a poster says one thing and the next poster says the opposite and it goes on and on like that. (and i get that that is what happens in discussion it's just that there aren't any facts being presented-only opinions so it's easy to just get into that "well i think this" "no, i think this") i was just getting tired of it so sorry if i offended u @maikatze, perhaps this is not the place for me to complain about these kinds of things-considering it's a forum after all lol

Also, it's the offseason - there's not much else happening.

 

[MaiKatze]

^^^ yeah my b if i came across harsh before in my other post about critiquing this thread-obviously there has been some good discussions here however i was just pointing out that after 4 pages we're kind of stuck in a rut where a poster says one thing and the next poster says the opposite and it goes on and on like that. (and i get that that is what happens in discussion it's just that there aren't any facts being presented-only opinions so it's easy to just get into that "well i think this" "no, i think this") i was just getting tired of it so sorry if i offended u @maikatze, perhaps this is not the place for me to complain about these kinds of things-considering it's a forum after all lol

I'm not offended but your arguments against this thread fit almost every thread in general. They make all discussion and the whole forum obsolete. No one is forcing you to read and participate in the topic, if it makes you tired and annoyed.

 

[xeyra]

^^^ yeah my b if i came across harsh before in my other post about critiquing this thread-obviously there has been some good discussions here however i was just pointing out that after 4 pages we're kind of stuck in a rut where a poster says one thing and the next poster says the opposite and it goes on and on like that. (and i get that that is what happens in discussion it's just that there aren't any facts being presented-only opinions so it's easy to just get into that "well i think this" "no, i think this") i was just getting tired of it so sorry if i offended u @maikatze, perhaps this is not the place for me to complain about these kinds of things-considering it's a forum after all lol

After a while, all threads become redundant since everything has been discussed ad nauseam at one time or another, either that day, that week, last month, last year or last decade. That's what having a voice in the age of the internet means. Everyone wants to weigh in and this leads to a lot of the same things being said, by multiple people, multiple times. And if it starts to get tiring with all the cyclical arguments, just stop reading and go find another less annoying thread.

 

[nolangoh]

Repeating programs (especially for the third time or more) is ok only if; you change the choreography/jumps/something, or you are really excellent at interpreting the music and live every second of it (like when you are Samantha Cesario, aka the one true Carmen). If it is a direct copy and paste then it certainly would take a little bit of expectation (and excitement) away, but since this is a sport, and it's the Olympic, whoever tries one's fullest and performs the best athletically that day should take the title.

Besides since it's the men event I don't expect any "artistic" program anyway

 

[Yuii Murasaki]

I can't believe some people here call top skaters lazy just because they repeat their programs...
Are you kidding me? They have been working really hard for years so at least show your respect a bit. And keep in mind they are competing for themselves and their countries and their job is to win and get medals, not to please or satisfy anyone.

 

[silverfoxes]

I can't believe some people here call top skaters lazy just because they repeat their programs...
Are you kidding me? They have been working really hard for years so at least show your respect a bit. And keep in mind they are competing for themselves and their countries and their job is to win and get medals, not to please or satisfy anyone.

Some skaters do care about pleasing the audience and challenging themselves to try something new. It's not all about medals for everybody. And you can respect skaters while disliking their strategy or choice of programs. What nonsense that fans aren't allowed to have an opinion. Besides, judges need to be "pleased and satisfied" and I'm sure not all of them like to see the same program rehashed for 2 or more seasons, either.

 

[moriel]

Some skaters do care about pleasing the audience and challenging themselves to try something new. It's not all about medals for everybody. And you can respect skaters while disliking their strategy or choice of programs. What nonsense that fans aren't allowed to have an opinion. Besides, judges need to be "pleased and satisfied" and I'm sure not all of them like to see the same program rehashed for 2 or more seasons, either.

For me, there are several approaches to keep the program that are perfectly fine.
1. the program has been used very few times during a season. See Tsurskaya's light of the seven SP - that is totally a keeper since she skated it very few times and the audience didn't get to see enough of it. I really doubt anyone here would complain about her keeping this program.
2. the program has been skated a lot, but the program is good and its "upgraded" from one season to next. See Ashley's moulin rouge FS. That was a pertty good keeper imho, and it had a few upgrades too. While some people complained, overall i think most of the fans were pleased.
3. bring back a great program from a few seasons ago. No recent examples for this one, but i can totally see a few teams pulling this with great results.

Also i'm not entirely into the "challenge themselves to try something new" just for the challenge sake. Many people here seem to demand something like this from skaters: "you paint great landskapes, fine, now go challenge yourself to pain portraits." instead of enjoying the amazing landscapes.

 

[blackey]

i think the judges don't care it at all, which is all that matters.

 

[Barb]

My feeling is that repeating a program is lazy and kind of unfair to those skaters who actually work on a new program in the off-season. I know every skater is free to choose to not get a new program, but if everyone did this, figure skating would become rather boring soon. So those skaters are relying on the others to learn new programs while they stay in their comfort zone.
I don't mind if a skater reverts to an old program, though, if their new program isn't working for them.

True.

 

[LRK]

I've been reading this thread, and I find myself seeing both sides of the argument. I think "Oh, that is so true!" - and then "Yes, but that is true as well!"

I think for me personally it's very subjective whether I "approve" of a skater keeping - or revisiting - an old program or not. But it's not always as simple as whether I liked the program or no. Now, obviously if I didn't like a program and gritted my teeth through one season, I'm not going to be overjoyed to hear that I'm in for one more season of it. However, sometimes I don't want to see a program I actually liked repeated eiither.

For example, I've seen people saying things like "Liza should just go back to Sandstorm!" Now, Liza is my Favourite Lady, and Sandstorm is my favourite program of hers. But I still would not like her to go back to it (she's never said anything about doing so, by the way, just for clarification). I think it has been skated as well as it can be skated already - in fact, Euros 2015 is the only performance of her own that she's really been actually satisfied with (she said so in an interview). If she brought it back, and couldn't perform it as well... the contrast would be noticeable, and even more so it would worry me as a fan, that it would be most felt to be so by herself, and the feeling of difference in her then condition and now would do her confidence no good at all.

All this rambling to say, I suppose, that for me it's a case by case scenario, and wholly subjective.

 

[Sackie]

I have often wondered what some great programs from up and coming skaters would be marked as and how much better they would be once the skater was established. A case in point would be Rochette's Firebird Program. It was one of her best programs but can you imagine what she could have done with it had she repeated it once she was established as a top contender and with the confidence she showed in her last 2 years.
But there have been other programs that skaters have done when not a top contender that would be nice to see them repeat once they were at the top!

 

[macy]

I have often wondered what some great programs from up and coming skaters would be marked as and how much better they would be once the skater was established. A case in point would be Rochette's Firebird Program. It was one of her best programs but can you imagine what she could have done with it had she repeated it once she was established as a top contender and with the confidence she showed in her last 2 years.
But there have been other programs that skaters have done when not a top contender that would be nice to see them repeat once they were at the top!

I love this. i had the thought not too long ago that gracie should come back with her untouchables freeskate from her junior years. i thought that music fit her really well, and i think it would make a beautiful senior long.

 

[Fresca]

Times have changed on the men's side. The level of tech needed to be a podium contender has significantly increased in the last few years. With top skaters adding to the type and number of quads they want to do, it is getting harder and harder for them to have new programs each year. Increasing tech in combination with needing to choose a new program and learn new choreography at this level is extremely difficult. This is Olympic season. As the judges have shown that what matters most is skating clean to get the PCS and GOE, I don't blame skaters for repeating programs. In fact, given the level of technical difficulty to be a top contender, I expect more program repeats going forward.

Even in other disciplines where the level of tech has not increased half as much, I don't begrudge skaters reusing programs if they think it increases their chances of doing well at the Olympics. This is a sport after all.

 

[Krunchii]

i think the judges don't care it at all, which is all that matters.

To be honest they're not really supposed to, it might be in the back of their mind but on the ISU's Program Components chart on their site, the only place people you can really say it affect is "Composition" and that it doesn't meet "Originality of the composition." but that's one of 5 bullets points under Composition.

Also US Figure Skating says this for Originality:

Originality of Purpose, Movement, and Design
Originality involves an individual perspective of movement and design in pursuit of a
creative composition as inspired by the music and the underlying vision.

You can still repeat a program but add original movements and design it in a way that's unique.

I actually hate this repeating programs pandemic that we're having for Olympic year, I'm really annoyed by it, like at this point I don't mind new programs to warhorses instead of bringing back old programs. But that has more to do with my personal enjoyment, I guess looking at it critically, it's not supposed to be a big deal in the judges eyes.

 

[charmblade]

For purely selfish reasons I like to see new, fresh programs, but I certainly understand why skaters would repeat, so I generally don't blame them. However, this year it just seems like every other program announcement is a repeat of some sort, and it is making me a little less excited for the Olympic season. Again, i can understand why skaters individually want to reuse a program, but there are just so many of them this time around that it's taking away a little bit of the specialness and novelty of the Olympic season. I can't wait for next season to start, and right now the only real thing that's happening (other than the surprise early GP announcement, yay!) is program news, so it's a little disappointing to hear one skater after another choosing to repeat a program. Like it's news that isn't new news, if that makes sense.

Granted, it's possible that we are just hearing these announcements of repeats now because these are the skaters who have settled on their choice because it's easy and familiar. Other skaters may still be choosing music or deciding to get comfortable with a new program before announcing music, so I'm hoping that the later announcements will be for novel program ideas. Also, for many of the choices we've already heard, it's only one program. Hopefully these skaters like Yuzuru will still have one new program, and so only one repeat from the same skater won't seem like such a big deal.

 

[Yuii Murasaki]

For me, there are several approaches to keep the program that are perfectly fine.
1. the program has been used very few times during a season. See Tsurskaya's light of the seven SP - that is totally a keeper since she skated it very few times and the audience didn't get to see enough of it. I really doubt anyone here would complain about her keeping this program.
2. the program has been skated a lot, but the program is good and its "upgraded" from one season to next. See Ashley's moulin rouge FS. That was a pertty good keeper imho, and it had a few upgrades too. While some people complained, overall i think most of the fans were pleased.
3. bring back a great program from a few seasons ago. No recent examples for this one, but i can totally see a few teams pulling this with great results.

Also i'm not entirely into the "challenge themselves to try something new" just for the challenge sake. Many people here seem to demand something like this from skaters: "you paint great landskapes, fine, now go challenge yourself to pain portraits." instead of enjoying the amazing landscapes.

Totally agree with you. I did not say anything that fans cannot share opinions but some people here are so harsh towards skaters as if they owe something to us fans. Also, I personally think that judges would not care about reusing programs at all. If they do, skaters will not choose this strategy to compete.

 

[moriel]

Totally agree with you. I did not say anything that fans cannot share opinions but some people here are so harsh towards skaters as if they owe something to us fans. Also, I personally think that judges would not care about reusing programs at all. If they do, skaters will not choose this strategy to compete.

Honestly, to me, re-using some programs is less bad than using brand new warhorses =)
i prefer to watch another season of a cool program rather than see yet another generic Poto or Carmen

 

[Yuii Murasaki]

Honestly, to me, re-using some programs is less bad than using brand new warhorses =)
i prefer to watch another season of a cool program rather than see yet another generic Poto or Carmen

Actually I would be so glad to see many new programs from skaters but I do understand them if they want to reuse old programs since it's an Olympic season.
Skaters are athletes to begin with and they cannot do it all, especially top skaters who are pushing technical difficulty. It's acceptable if they all want to skate to programs they feel comfortable and connected with. If it means we will see more amazingly well skated programs from them, I would not mind repeating at all.