Rhythmic Gymnastics | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Rhythmic Gymnastics

@Ichatdelune already did a very good job at giving a bit of an intro and overview that is certainly enough for the casual viewer, but I'll still do a few posts for those who want to get into the sport more deeply - Now or after the games :wink:
So please just bear with me while I try putting my thoughts into halfway-legible sentences 😅
I guess just a few comments when something noteworthy happens during the competition would be welcomed to the ignoramus viewer like me ;) Like what makes this gymnast so much better than the others ?? etc...
 
I guess just a few comments when something noteworthy happens during the competition would be welcomed to the ignoramus viewer like me ;) Like what makes this gymnast so much better than the others ?? etc...
I'm hoping very much to be able to watch it with you all :pray: Currently, the chances are looking good, as I am still waiting for a necessary component to be delivered before I can start my next project in the lab - We ordered it last Wednesday, and it should have been here on Monday 🙃
 
I'm hoping very much to be able to watch it with you all :pray: Currently, the chances are looking good, as I am still waiting for a necessary component to be delivered before I can start my next project in the lab - We ordered it last Wednesday, and it should have been here on Monday 🙃
i am waiting too... for a very important component for better viewing pleasures... a sofa ... HAHA.... it should be here Friday or Saturday... I just moved to a new condo and I am still furnishing it while trying to watch the games from a very uncomfortable armchair lol
 
I guess just a few comments when something noteworthy happens during the competition would be welcomed to the ignoramus viewer like me ;) Like what makes this gymnast so much better than the others ?? etc...
If 'better' means higher scores than others it's usually a matter of their D, they do more difficult routines and thus get better scores. Of course it can be a matter of E, fully rotating your pivots or correctly handling the apparatus can matter greatly if you have similar D to your rival's. It's the same as AG or figure skating for that matter. And while I hope nothing of the sort happens 'noteworthy' situations would probably be mistakes, dropping the apparatus, chasing after the apparatus, and losing the apparatus are very evident errors even to a first-time viewer and obviously incur a big drop in E (a drop/loss is a full mark, for instance). Or maybe it could be a situation where a gymnast/group doesn't perform all their D, whether intentional or unintentional it's going to make a huge impact.

One thing that'll confuse the first-time viewer is fans obsessing over the AC, it's because apparatus trajectory can be greatly affected (especially ribbon). I know it's hot in the arena but by the heavens I do not want to see another AC issue a la Baku 2023, please turn off the AC when it's time for the ribbon routine
 
One thing that'll confuse the first-time viewer is fans obsessing over the AC, it's because apparatus trajectory can be greatly affected (especially ribbon). I know it's hot in the arena but by the heavens I do not want to see another AC issue a la Baku 2023, please turn off the AC when it's time for the ribbon routine
Or if you absolutely have to keep it on, keep it on for all gymnasts (Baku, you know what you did 😒)
 
If 'better' means higher scores than others it's usually a matter of their D, they do more difficult routines and thus get better scores. Of course it can be a matter of E, fully rotating your pivots or correctly handling the apparatus can matter greatly if you have similar D to your rival's. It's the same as AG or figure skating for that matter. And while I hope nothing of the sort happens 'noteworthy' situations would probably be mistakes, dropping the apparatus, chasing after the apparatus, and losing the apparatus are very evident errors even to a first-time viewer and obviously incur a big drop in E (a drop/loss is a full mark, for instance). Or maybe it could be a situation where a gymnast/group doesn't perform all their D, whether intentional or unintentional it's going to make a huge impact.

One thing that'll confuse the first-time viewer is fans obsessing over the AC, it's because apparatus trajectory can be greatly affected (especially ribbon). I know it's hot in the arena but by the heavens I do not want to see another AC issue a la Baku 2023, please turn off the AC when it's time for the ribbon routine
I can spot big mistakes and even some smaller ones... But what I cannot tell is difficulty. In AG, I get a sense of D. But I would not in RG.
 
I can spot big mistakes and even some smaller ones... But what I cannot tell is difficulty. In AG, I get a sense of D. But I would not in RG.
So RG D is kinda actually complicated and I don't pretend to be able to know exactly how much D was done after a routine, but two basic rules apply: harder body tricks means more DB (more pivots, harder balance positions, doing turns on relevé, etc.) and a bigger throw + more turns under the apparatus in flight means more DA. But then this cycle so much DA has come from rolls and to know whether a roll (or any other DA element for that matter) is counted or not we have to check if enough base criteria have been checked and combined, I don't want to go into the weeds and discuss line of sight/plane of throws/without hands/etc. because I am definitely not qualified for that (and besides DA has a cap now so DB is the bigger contributor to scores anyway) so let's just say routines with more DA tends to be much busier and the gymnasts who seem to do all the stuff without looking rushed are the ones who'll get higher scores on that part.
 
So RG D is kinda actually complicated and I don't pretend to be able to know exactly how much D was done after a routine, but two basic rules apply: harder body tricks means more DB (more pivots, harder balance positions, doing turns on relevé, etc.) and a bigger throw + more turns under the apparatus in flight means more DA. But then this cycle so much DA has come from rolls and to know whether a roll (or any other DA element for that matter) is counted or not we have to check if enough base criteria have been checked and combined, I don't want to go into the weeds and discuss line of sight/plane of throws/without hands/etc. because I am definitely not qualified for that (and besides DA has a cap now so DB is the bigger contributor to scores anyway) so let's just say routines with more DA tends to be much busier and the gymnasts who seem to do all the stuff without looking rushed are the ones who'll get higher scores on that part.
ok. Thanks... I know you tried your best here but I am too much of a noob to get much of this LOL... I will trust the judges... Anyway, I am used to that right ? I watch ice dance where even if I am not agreeing all the time, I have to trust the judges.
 
So, let's actually start with a post that I was going to make either way:

What is rhythmic gymnastics (RG)?

Rhythmic gymnastics is a sport that combines gymnastics, dance (particularly ballet) and work with a (portable) apparatus. As @Ichatdelune has already explained, there are two disciplines - Individual and group. In individual rhythmic gymnastics, as the name suggests, routines are performed by a singular gymnast, while groups in rhythmic gymnastics nowadays consist of 5 gymnasts. Historically, the apparatuses used were ball, clubs, hoop, ribbon and rope, however rope has been removed from the Senior program and is only included at Junior and pre-Junior competitions (in a rotating cycle with the other four apparatuses). Groups perform one performance with five of the same type of apparatus and another with a 3+2 conformation (so for example 3 balls and 2 ribbons).

Rhythmic gymnastics is also one of the last remaining women-only sports - While men's rhythmic gymnastics exists in a small handful of countries, it is not a recognised discipline by the FIG. Without going too much into detail here either, there are two "kinds" of male rhythmic gymnastics. The Spanish type (also practised in France for example) stays very true to its female counterpart, while the Japanese type (also in Russia) includes more acrobatic elements, different apparatuses and bigger group sizes. If you are interested, feel free to check out this wonderful video by one of the most well-known and knowledgeable creators in the fandom. It is already 3 years old, but not much has happened since (unfortunately).

The history of rhythmic gymnastics
RG finds its early roots in 1700s and 1800s France and Germany in what is called "movement expression" - Dance and physical movement as a tools for expression. In 19th-century Sweden, this developed into what is called aesthetic gymnastics today, while at the same time in America the idea was extended to include calisthenics and more gymnastics-inspired workouts. The sport started gaining more popularity as a workout for women, who certainly had a hard enough time finding "sociably agreeable" sports back then.
In Switzerland, eurhythmics was developed in the late 1800s as physical training for dancers and in France George Demeny introduced apparatuses into dance exercises.
Around 1900, all of these different, but similar ideas were combined and further developed in Scandinavia, where gymnastics teachers were focused on finding a middle ground between the more rigid approach of the Americas and the free movement style found in Europe. The first "Code of Points" was developed at the same time in Estonia, and the first "modern" rhythmic gymnastics school was opened in 1929 in Berlin.

Competitive rhythmic gymnastics started gaining traction in the 1940s in the Soviet Union (before this, RG was mostly a performance sport like ballet). Initially, RG was considered a sub-discipline of artistic gymnastics (AG) and between 1928 and 1956 gymnasts performed in "team portable apparatus" events at major AG events (i.e. RG groups) - Including at the 1952 and 1956 Olympic games.
In 1962, the FIG officially recognised rhythmic gymnastics as its own discipline, with the name going through multiple revisions before finally landing on RG.
The first World Championships in individual RG was held in 1963, while groups were added four years (2 editions) later in 1967.
The inclusion of rhythmic gymnastics in the Olympic games fatefully coincided with the Eastern Bloc-boycotted 1984 LA Summer Olympics, making Lori Fung of Canada the very first Olympic champion in Rhythmic gymnastics - And leaving Canadian broadcasters scrambling to find footage of her routines. Fun fact: The gymnasts were accompanied by live pianists. 😁
In 1996, groups were also added to the Olympic program, with the Spanish group becoming the first Olympic champions.

Since its beginning, RG has went through many transformations - From the fashion to the Code of Points, each era had its own focus, be it the balletic root of the sport in the 1960s and 70s, extreme flexibility in the 1990s and 2000s, high apparatus difficulties in the late 2010s or attempting to find a balance of difficulty and artistry like in the early 2010s and 2020s. And of course, how else could it be, the one consistent thing across all these eras are the countless judging controversies - Not surprising or new to any figure skating fans either, no? 😜

While the USSR and former Soviet states nowadays remain the most successful countries over the history of the sport, other countries like Italy and China have built strong and recognisable schools of rhythmic gymnatics, becoming real powerhouses in rhythmic gymnastics today.
 
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Scoring / Code of Points (CoP)

Rhythmic gymnastics scoring is certainly not the easiest thing in the world to understand and then also apply mentally during a competition - Way too many things happening all at the same time :dbana:
The CoP (essentially the equivalent of the technical handbook in figure skating) spans 225 pages currently and is changed/modified after each Olympic cycle. Apart from the actual elements and guidelines for execution and artistry for both individuals and groups, it also details the composition of the jury, the responsibilities of each judge and the apparatus program (i.e. which apparatus will be used in which year).

While I certainly could write a huge block of text going into all of the detail about the scoring (and even now it already is), I'm going to try and include the most important aspects and point out some things during the competition itself when they come up ☺️

Requirements for individual routines:
Difficulty of Body (DB):
3 different body groups (leaps, balances and rotations), at least one of each. 9 BDs with the highest value are counted​
Up to 3 combined BDs, i.e. two different BDs (of the same or different type) executed on the same leg without interruption right after the other​
Validation through correct apparatus handling, no repetition of BDs possible (unless done in series)​
Dynamic Elements with Rotation (R):
Large throw with at least two uninterrupted rotations (rolls, cartwheels, ...) under the throw and catch of the apparatus at the end​
Difficulty built up with more rotations under the throw and additional criteria (catch without hands, catch in rotation, change of axis/level during the rotations, ...)​
Rotations have to be different in each R​
Maximum 5, counted in order of performance​
Difficulty of apparatus (DA):
Apparatus handling like rolls, throws/catches, rebounds, ... and at least two criteria (for example without hands, on the floor, during BD, outside of visual field (i.e. "blind" catches), ...)​
High throws are over 2 times the standing height of the gymnast (from point of release), small throws are below​
Between 1 and 20 DAs, counted in order of performance​
In addition, each apparatus has fundamental apparatus technical groups, like rolls for ball and hoop, spirals for ribbon and mills for clubs, which have to be included in the routines. Gymnasts also have to include 2 dance steps reflecting the character of the music with a length of 10 s each (no value).​
Values of elements:
I'm not getting deep into the values here, but just offering a small frame for reference.​
DAs are between 0.2 and 0.4 (for catches from high throws).​
DBs can be at the lowest 0.1 (passe balance or a tuck jump) to 0.8 for leaps (turning split leap with switch of the legs and back bend of the trunk - nobody does this element though), up to 0.6 for balances (Front split without help, trunk backward below horizontal from the seated position) on releve (0.1 lower if done on flat foot), and rotations up to 0.7. Again, doing a rotation on flat foot lowers the value by 0.1. Each additional rotation over the base (360° or 180°) adds 0.1 (on flat foot/BV 0.1) or 0.2 to the difficulty score of the element.​
The base value of Rs is 0.2, each additional criterion adds 0.1 to 0.2.​
Execution deductions:
Deducted from 10.0​
Small (0.1):
Adjustment of body position, loss of balance without travel, incorrectly held body segment (bent knee, foot not pointed, ...), incorrect shape in BD (<10° deviation), small hop during rotations, catch with one step due to incorrect trajectory, incomplete roll, incorrect catch, ...​
Medium (0.3):
Loss of balance with movement, medium deviation in BD (10-20°), shape in balances not held for at least 1 second, catch with two steps due to incorrect trajectory, ribbon wrapping around parts of the body without interruption, for each requirement for the routine that has not fulfilled (no leaps for example)​
Large (0.5+):
Faults with 0.5+ deduction invalidate the attempted element​
Loss of balance with support (0.5) or fall (0.7), incorrect shape in BD (>20° deviation), loss of apparatus without travelling for retrieval (0.5), 1-2 steps (0.7) or 3+ steps/outside of floor area (1.0), knot of ribbon (Careful! All elements performed with the knot are also supposed to be invalid), ...​
Artistry deductions:
Deducted from 10.0​
0.3: character of movement is present in most of the exercise, body and facial expression underdeveloped, less than 2 dynamic changes, insufficient variety of high throws and catches, ...​
0.5: character of movement is present in some of the exercise, body and facial expression absent, no dynamic changes, missing one of the dance steps, lack of harmony of music and movement at the end of the exercise​
1.0: character of movement is present only in dance steps, missing both of the dance steps​
Additionally, up to 2.0 points each in deduction for missing connections and rhythm faults.​
Neutral penalties:
Applied to the end score separately.​
Time deductions (missing or additional): 0.05 per full second​
Leaving the floor area: 0.3 for each body part/athlete or apparatus​
Unauthorized use of replacement apparatus: 0.5​
Apparatus returns to floor area after retrieval of reserve apparatus and isn't removed: 0.3​
...​
 
For groups, it's similar but also slightly different, so I'm just going to point out differences.
Requirements for group routines:
Difficulty of Body (DB):
Maximum 10, counted in order of performance​
Minimum 4 Difficulties without Exchanges (DB as in individual exercises), must be performed by all 5 gymnasts (simultaneously or in rapid succession or two different DBs in subgroups of 2 and 3 at the same time), combined difficulties have to be performed by all gymnasts simultaneously
Minimum 4 Difficulties with Exchanges (DE): All 5 gymnasts are involved in throwing and catching an apparatus from a partner. Throws have to be high or long, or both (large). Can happen simultaneously or in subgroups. Can be done with one DB or without
Dynamic Elements with Rotation (R):
Maximum 1, has to be performed identically for all 5 gymnasts. Can be performed simultaneously, in succession or in subgroups.
Difficulty with Collaborations (DC):
Apparatus Difficulties have to be done in collaboration (DC):
Without high or long throws of the apparatus (CC), with high throws of the apparatus and Dynamic Body Rotation during the flight of the apparatus (CR), with throws of multiple apparatus, with catch of multiple apparatus, and with lifting/ support of the gymnast (CL)
Between 9 and 18 DCs, counted in order of performance​
Minimum 3 CC and 3 CR, minimum three isolated collaborations with throws or catch of multiple apparatus
Maximum 3 combined CR+ collaborations with throws or catch of multiple apparatus
Valid only if performed without serious errors (loss of apparatus, fall, collision of gymnasts, ...)
Values of elements:
DBs and Rs as in individual exercises.​
DEs are 0.2 plus 0.1 for additional criteria
CCs are 0.3 + 0.1 for outside of visual field & without help of hands
CRs are 0.1 + 0.1 or 0.2 for additional criteria
Collaborations with throws of multiple apparatus are 0.3 in isolation and 0.3 in combination with CR, plus 0.1 for additional criteria
Collaborations with catch of multiple apparatus are 0.3 in isolation and 0.3 in combination with CR, plus 0.1 for additional criteria
CLs are 0.2.
Execution deductions:
Deducted from 10.0​
Small (0.1):
Lack of synchronization between individual movement and that of the group, Imprecise line(s) within the formation, Collision between the gymnasts/apparatus
Artistry deductions:
Deducted from 10.0​
0.3: Missing 1 of each type of the 4 organizational structures of collective work, Insufficient variety in the design and/or amplitude of the formations
0.5: More than 4 seconds in araised construction and/or unauthorized construction
Additionally, up to 2.0 points in deduction for rhythm faults, and up to 1.0 point in deduction for missing connections​
Neutral penalties:
As in individual exercises.​
 
About the judging, the overall is pretty good and fair to all athletes and never seen any fixxing like figure skating...

In Canada it will be mostly online, I think...
On-line viewing has problems like changing them around with the same ads over and over and picture freezing
 
About the judging, the overall is pretty good and fair to all athletes and never seen any fixxing like figure skating...
Oh lord I wish, there is an actual current judging scandal that *changed who got to go to the Olympics*. And that's just one of the more blatant cases, there is and has been so much controversial judging across competitons and cycles. Look up Olena Vityrchenko if you want to see one of the biggest rigged judging cases. I was too young to have watched that live but I have seen so much suspicious and/or incorrect judging even after I started watching, I still remember the day Dina Averina won AA gold when she had a knot on her ribbon for instance. RG judging is very much influenced by politics, it's no different from figure skating.
 
Oh lord I wish, there is an actual current judging scandal that *changed who got to go to the Olympics*. And that's just one of the more blatant cases, there is and has been so much controversial judging across competitons and cycles. Look up Olena Vityrchenko if you want to see one of the biggest rigged judging cases. I was too young to have watched that live but I have seen so much suspicious and/or incorrect judging even after I started watching, I still remember the day Dina Averina won AA gold when she had a knot on her ribbon for instance. RG judging is very much influenced by politics, it's no different from figure skating.
Or at the start of the Rio Olympic cycle (2013-2016), when 60 judges were caught cheating to pass judging tests - And went about it in a worse way than even the least intelligent middle schooler :palmf:
Not to speak of Irina Viner essentially being given free rein to design the CoP for her gymnasts' strengths time after time - So happy she's banned now and seething in her own hellish creations (because WTF is the Russian domestic "CoP"???).
In 2002, four judges were expelled for blatantly obviously favouring their own countries at Worlds.

Essentially, what it comes down to in RG, is that people have to be really stupid and obvious to be caught - And clearly, sometimes they are.
 
And as the event starts in just a little less than 1 hour, let's get to some fun statistics:

@Ichatdelune did well with introducing gymnasts, and I'll definitely add to that during the event, so let's just look at the blank facts for now.

24 individual gymnasts are fighting for 10 final spots and 14 groups for 8 final spots. Individual qualifications will be especially brutal this time around (though it always is, as more than half of the field is cut).

For reference, these are the 15 highest-scoring gymnasts in the All-Around so far this year:
Gymnast (NOC)AA Score
NIKOLOVA Stiliana (BUL)143.750
VARFOLOMEEV Darja (GER)140.250
RAFFAELI Sofia (ITA)139.750
ATAMANOV Daria (ISR)138.250
KALEYN Boryana (BUL)137.300
IKROMOVA Takhmina (UZB)135.000
BALDASSARRI Milena (ITA)134.000
TANIYEVA Elzhana (KAZ)133.400
KOLOSOV Margarita (GER)133.400
DOMINGOS Barbara (BRA)133.100
ONOFRIICHUK Taisiia (UKR)133.100
BAUTISTA Alba (ESP)132.250
VEDENEEVA Ekaterina (SLO)132.200
PIGNICZKI Fanni (HUN)132.000
TUGOLUKOVA Vera (CYP)131.400

And that is not even taking into account the spread of scores some of these gymnasts have had this season :drama:

Daria ATAMANOV's lowest AA score is for example 124.300, and Margarita KOLOSOV's 121.350 - Both scores that would be unlikely to qualify for the final.
On the other hand, Stiliana NIKOLOVA's lowest AA score of 135.100 still easily beats most of the field, same for Darja VARFOLOMEEV's 135.700.

In the simplest terms - This could both turn out to be one of the most predictable and enjoyable events if everyone hits their best routines here, or one of the messiest and chaotic events if the chaos of the year so far carries over to the Olympics.
 
And nothing today on our Tv. Must find Cbc.
 
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