Russia Names 2014 Team for Europeans

[sisinka]

I remember Hendryk Schamberger, German Eurosport commentator and former Ice Dancer (10th at the 1994 Lillehammer Olympics), criticize Bobrova/Soloviev year after year because he felt they were too theatrical, and that their focus was too much on big theatrical costumes and fitting "posing" rather than technical difficulty and speed. He was thrilled when they switched to Zhulin and said that might be the change they needed.
Ilynikh/Katsalapov, in their first years, he kept on calling them "the future of Russian Ice Dance", and that it was "just a matter of time before they overtook Bobrova/Soloviev". He noted that they had great speed in their twizzles, just like Davis/White had even in their early days, and that "most said Davis/White were too wild and took too much risk of making a mistake in their beginnings".

Frenchie, talking to you is very interesting. Hendryk Schamberger has his own opinion, Maxim Staviski has his own opinion (a little bit different from Schamberger’s ones) and I believe many other ice dancing experts have their own opinions. By the way Zhulin and Morozov and Zueva and Sphilband and Krylova are ex ice dancers, and somebody of them prefers Virtue, somebody prefers Davis, while Linichuk said that the best dancers of all times are Domnina & Shabalin. While Evgeni Platov thinks that Torvill & Dean were the best even better than he himself (I also heard that Platov complimented Coomes & Buckland like very promising and improving ones). While Staviski thinks Virtue is old-fashioned, I believe that Zueva has a little bit different opinion…no, I am sure she has a different opinion.

 

[sisinka]

Just to sum up my position: I tried to explain why the Russian Federation was hoping so much that Ilynikh/Katsalapov would become the next big thing, and I pointed out how difficult it is to find a right moment to "let go of that hope". I'm glad that the world of Ice Dance has become far less political than it used to be years ago, and that it's becoming easier to get great marks for a great performance, even if you didn't get 100% of the possible backing from your federation in the past, and aren't showcased as the clear and only number one in your country. But then,

I would like to believe that marks are given deservedly even without Federation support, it would be lovely…if it would be true. Oh, I would love this situation. Let’s make a test. Europeans will be started in three weeks. And there will be one more very promising young ice dancing couple – Sinitsina & Zhiganshin. I am watching them since they won Junior World Championships, see above our earlier conversation - that more Junior Champions had an impressive skating, Sinitsina & Zhiganshin’s Phantom of the Opera was something not less special than Schindler’s List. This year Sinitsina & Zhiganshin suffered from no support and no attention by Russian Federation getting low marks at every competition, sure they were making mistakes rooted from no big competition experiences. But watching them at Russian Nationals – they were the second best couple both in short and free dance. Ruslan Zhiganshin is a expressive, demonic and passionate dancer who always catches people’s attentions, while Victoria is a beautiful young lady with elegant and smooth moves. Both Victoria and Ruslan have great basics and technique, wonderful contact with each other and chemistry, they both look very well (we know that sometimes even these things are important, Vika can be crowded the best looking dancer at Euros). They work together as a couple, support each other. They skate with freshness and they are obviously enjoying dancing. Their dances at Russian Nationals were wow – especially in short dance Ruslan over-danced all much more experienced men dancers. The weakness are lifts but as we know Lena and Nikita were getting high marks even with weak lifts, actually Lena and Nikita learn a new and difficult lifts this season which is their fourth senior season (and how much problematic their lifts become we saw already, even in gala during first lift Lena’s blades came into “quite dangerous zone”, and during second lift she almost fell from the positition – I am sure that she cut Nikita’s skin on leg a little bit with her blade, with new judging system lifts became dangerous, expecially a difficult ones, maybe Morozov will persuade them to come back to old more easy lifts to avoid some injuries).
Sinitsina & Zhiganshin have zero support by Russian Federation, but if you think that support is no more needed, then Vika and Ruslan should finish no lower then in fourth place like Lena and Nikita during their Euros debut. I hope you are true. I am looking forward to see it.

Until we see Euros we can compare:
Lena and Nikita with support by Russian Federation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO5VtI5Gl5c …99.34 points
Vika and Ruslan without support by Russian Federation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXCjrzuFDpA ….98.52 points

Ilynikh/Katsalapov winning this year's Trophée Éric Bompart by overtaking Péchalat/Bourzat in the free in front of their home crowd thanks to a clean performance is a good example.

Please I know that I am a detailman but I can’t say that performance with shacky turns and stumble in step sequence is taken as “clean” performance, in thread TEB there is written that GOE was higher then it should be (looking at Handbook for judges). If those judges would notice out of the rhythm parts, simply if the judges would really marked what stayed on the ice after Lena and Nikita’s free skate, the French would finish second. (Judges probably didn’t notice a stumble, and they didn’t want to believe that somebody who is called next Olympic champion by Russian Federation can be out of the rhythm…it may happen, they are human ones only, and nobody of us is unmistakable).

As to undeserved marking in free skate I wrote about it in another thread.

 

[sisinka]

... Iliniykh/Katsalapov got 171.89points at Trophée Éric Bompart where they beat Péchalat/Bourzat and finished second to Virtue/Moir. B/S never had V/M or D/W in the same GP event. B/S would have lost to I/K, but also to Péchalat/Bourzat if they had gotten their CoC or CoR scores there.
Bobrova/Soloviev got 163.42points at CoC where they also finished second, behind Péchalat/Bourzat. Ilynikh/Katsalapov would have beaten them and Péchalat/Bourzat and won the CoC with their scores from TEB.
Bobrova/Soloviev got 168.32points at CoR where they won. Ilynikh/Katsalapov would have beaten them and won the CoR with their scores from TEB.
So results aren't always what shows the performance best. Results rely on the competition, and Bobrova/Soloviev were lucky not to have V/M or S/D in their GP thanks to their World Ranking.

I agree that I/K haven't shown their potential enough, but this is what "potential" means: beat Péchalat/Bourzat in France, where B/S lost to them on neutral ground.

I also already talked about different marks from different competitions given by different judges and levels given by different “kind” or “strict” technical specialist.

Because Ilinykh & Katsalapov skated a disaster at free dance at Worlds and finish a nice 9th place, they got that Grand Prix with that skaters, so you can see it was well deserved (but to be fair… in comparison with this year disaster at free dance at Nationals, that performance at Worlds was still better with less number of badly executed elements and no missing elements…then it is quite surprising that they got 90 points only and not 99 like at Nationals…why not?).

Bobrova & Soloviev were in the same situation like Lena and Nikita last season. They met Davis White at Skate America last year, where they finished second in front of Weaver & Poje. Then Bobrova finished second and again in front of Weaver & Poje in Cup od China – so suprisingly Bobrova came into final and finished fifth there.

This year Lena and Nikita were supposed to repeat Bobrova’s style and beat couples who finished ahead of them at last Worlds, Lena and Nikita failed in NHK finishing in fourth place even behind Shibutani. Result in TEB was discussed above.

This year surprisingly Bobrova and Soloviev were also very lucky (even more lucky than Lena and Nikita) to meet both Virtue and Davis in one time…at Grand Prix Final. They were third after the short dance, they lost third place because of fall, still they kept fourth position. So you can see that looking at GP Final judges think that Bobrova & Soloviev are capable to win over everybody with clean skate (except Virtue and Davis of course).

As we know one couple can’t beat another couple through ocean and from different competitions. One couple can beat another couple meeting at one competition. Lena & Nikita could go to Final to meet Bobrova & Soloviev, they didn’t come – they didn’t qualify. So the couples met at Nationals for the first time this year…and the results is already well known.

 

[Frenchie]

Frenchie, talking to you is very interesting.

Same here

very promising young ice dancing couple – Sinitsina & Zhiganshin. I am watching them since they won Junior World Championships

Hey, I'm 100% with you on this one:

congratulations to hanca (again! ) and to frenchie, who were the only ones to predict S/Z in third! :yes:

... and that prediction didn't plan on I/K's performance...

 

[FSGMT]

This is a very interesting discussion... Maybe a different thread?