Russian Nationals, Jan. 4-7, 2008

[netnuts]

But we have to remember that K/S program was tech. harder than M/T. I just don't like the fact that people refer to the win as favortism(sp?) because that pretty much says that K/S don't deserve anything they win at because they are favored and that is unfair.

I agree technically K&S's long program was much harder based on weird CoP rules. They fell on the quad, but that's nothing. Since a fallen but fully rotated quad is almost as good as a triple. They also did 3t+3t+seq, which was quite difficult.

M&T's 3S/2S scored almost nothing.

 

[netnuts]

Yes. K/S are better skaters, too.

Don't believe K&S are better skaters. They have potential to score bigger points under CoP though.

 

[Morgane]

I think that if MMMT want to prove they're better- they have to be perfect and they were not today. And I am happy Maria understands it. I think Max was so bitter in part because he was disappointed with himself - in the interview he mentioned that it was the first time in 5 years that he fell from a 3s. And I am sure once he calms down, he will understand the reasons for this loss. Probably he just wasn't able to cope with his disappointment at the moment and his words did not come out in a very nice way

 

[piano4112000]

I have a problem when people bring the words classically trained into the picture because it doesn't matter if you are classically train if the program and the tech. isn't polished.

In my opinion K/S are better skaters but that is only one persons opinion but to say that they are better because they are classically train pretty much rubs me the wrong way because your saying k/S are not as good because they are not. Like a skater for their speed and jumps and even artistry( no matter what it is) but not because they are classically train.

 

[Hsuhs]

I think Max was so bitter in part because he was disappointed with himself - in the interview he mentioned that it was the first time in 5 years that he fell from a 3s. And I am sure once he calms down, he will understand the reasons for this loss. Probably he just wasn't able to cope with his disappointment at the moment and his words did not come out in a very nice way

That is something I can understand. MMMT have progressed a lot in just one year and want this progress be reflected in marks. But I think their coach's reasoning is unhealthy and not really helping. Like 'no matter what you guys do, the other pair will be given higher marks'. If the coach can't handle it...

 

[piano4112000]

I think that if MMMT want to prove they're better- they have to be perfect and they were not today. And I am happy Maria understands it. I think Max was so bitter in part because he was disappointed with himself - in the interview he mentioned that it was the first time in 5 years that he fell from a 3s. And I am sure once he calms down, he will understand the reasons for this loss. Probably he just wasn't able to cope with his disappointment at the moment and his words did not come out in a very nice way

I like Maxim, I think he is cute and a good skater but I have a feeling he doesn't like K/S very much because of how the Federation have played up this rivalry. I have heard only good things from people who have met K/S and so I don't think it is personal since I have heard that Maxim is also a nice guy.\

I just wish that he doesn't let his anger cloud him during interviews because it doesn't make him look good to me.


Again sorry for the ramble, hope I didn't offend anyone with my opinions.

 

[Jasper]

I have a problem when people bring the words classically trained into the picture because it doesn't matter if you are classically train if the program and the tech. isn't polished.

In my opinion K/S are better skaters but that is only one persons opinion but to say that they are better because they are classically train pretty much rubs me the wrong way because your saying k/S are not as good because they are not. Like a skater for their speed and jumps and even artistry( no matter what it is) but not because they are classically train.

I didn't say that their classical training made them "better" - it's just a Russian aesthetic that I personally like when performed well. For me, M/T are exciting because they are pure Russian skaters with speed and the complete package, whereas K/T are more awkward for me and score higher because of CoP rules.

Having said that, I know M/T aren't perfectly polished at all and still have maturing to do, and they will also learn to communicate better with each other and show expression.

 

[Morgane]

I think MMMT improved in how they communicate in public and with the public but Max still has some work to do A short interview with their coach has been published on allsport.ru. He started by saying that those supported by the federation can skate their program part by part without any deductions. (Not nice at all, and does he have any reason at all to be unhappy? Is there any rule that says you should get a deduction in case you stop, even if for health reasons? I suspect such a rule does not exist and in this case I don't get his attitude). But then he went on saying he was not pleased with his pair neither, they made mistakes. On the other side, his pair made a lot of progress. "What's the reason for mistakes? The ice is smooth and you also have skating boots on your feet (laughing). It has nothing to do with psychological instability, the most psychologically unstable in our team is our choreograph. The rest of us are stable and are ready for anything"

 

[piano4112000]

I didn't say that their classical training made them "better" - it's just a Russian aesthetic that I personally like when performed well. For me, M/T are exciting because they are pure Russian skaters with speed and the complete package, whereas K/T are more awkward for me and score higher because of CoP rules.

Having said that, I know M/T aren't perfectly polished at all and still have maturing to do, and they will also learn to communicate better with each other and show expression.

Sorry to sound off on you but you can't imagine how many people have brought that up and I hate when they do.

 

[piano4112000]

I think MMMT improved in how they communicate in public and with the public but Max still has some work to do A short interview with their coach has been published on allsport.ru. He started by saying that those supported by the federation can skate their program part by part without any deductions. (Not nice at all, and does he have any reason at all to be unhappy? Is there any rule that says you should get a deduction in case you stop, even if for health reasons? I suspect such a rule does not exist and in this case I don't get his attitude). But then he went on saying he was not pleased with his pair neither, they made mistakes. On the other side, his pair made a lot of progress. "What's the reason for mistakes? The ice is smooth and you also have skating boots on your feet (laughing). It has nothing to do with psychological instability, the most psychologically unstable in our team is our choreograph. The rest of us are stable and are ready for anything"

I'm glad you put this up because I think the reason for Maxim's interview was because of the coach. He makes it seems as though the injury was on purpose believe me no one wants to get injured. His comment is like a slap in the face toward K/S. I was actually worried for Yuko when I saw her skate and get injured and my first thought was not if she can continue to skate but rather if she needed medical help. When I saw Smirnov's face when he looked at Yuko I could tell it was something wrong. The coaches reasoning is utterly ridicules, and the whole skate in parts was just over the top. I'm surprised Tamara M. hasn't said anything out against that.

 

[Hsuhs]

I suspect such a rule does not exist

Such a rule does exist, and Vasiliev - as experienced as he is - knows it.

2. If, in the opinion of the Referee, medical attention is required, the Referee must stop the performance and allow the Competitor to continue immediately from the point of interruption or, if that is not possible, allow a period of up to two (2) minutes before the continuation. 3. No restarts of the whole program are allowed.

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-178381-195599-111175-0-file,00.pdf

 

[chuckm]

IMO, Maxim was right when he implied that M/T weren't going to be allowed to win this competition, even if it happened that they did clearly outskate K/S (which they didn't, but the difference wasn't nearly as big as the point gap).

I think the RFSF is deliberately pushing K/S because they want M/T to make huge improvements in their skating, and to do that, they first have to work well together as a team. I think the forced rivalry is eventually going to accomplish exactly that.

M/T have to be kept on their toes just in case Yuko decides she doesn't want to give up her Japanese citizenship for the Olympics.

 

[Morgane]

Hsushs, what I meant is that the rule ordering a deduction for interruptions due to medical reasons probably does not exist. You're allowed to stop if there are medical reasons for that. And that is why I am surprised by his comment. I do not think at all he meant K/S stopped on purposed- not at all. But I don't get why he would expect them to get a deduction if he knows everything was done according to the rules.

 

[Hsuhs]

<updating her ignore list>

 

[oxade21]

I think K&S should have beaten them in long program at a narrower margin. A fall on a quad under CoP is equal to a good throw triple, so their only major deduction based on CoP is a step-out-of a 2A. M&T had a major mistake on 3S/2S.

Not sure why they even beat M&T in short program by almost 4 points.

I agree, if you watch the video you can see that she completed all the rotations and landed on one feet but fell afterwards out of stumble. I am not sure if that cost them more then a small downgrade. Of course Smirnov made one mistake landing 2Ax though.

 

[Morgane]

IMO, Maxim was right when he implied that M/T weren't going to be allowed to win this competition, even if it happened that they did clearly outskate K/S (which they didn't, but the difference wasn't nearly as big as the point gap).

I think the RFSF is deliberately pushing K/S because they want M/T to make huge improvements in their skating, and to do that, they first have to work well together as a team. I think the forced rivalry is eventually going to accomplish exactly that.

M/T have to be kept on their toes just in case Yuko decides she doesn't want to give up her Japanese citizenship for the Olympics.

I agree with you and I really like MMMT (I guess this is kinda obvious), I just would like them to be/appear more fair play (well, of course I'd like them to get better and better in their skating as well)

 

[Hsuhs]

Hsushs, what I meant is that the rule ordering a deduction for interruptions due to medical reasons probably does not exist. You're allowed to stop if there are medical reasons for that. And that is why I am surprised by his comment. I do not think at all he meant K/S stopped on purposed- not at all. But I don't get why he would expect them to get a deduction if he knows everything was done according to the rules.

He prob thought that there were no medical reasons, or that the restart took longer than 2 min? Could be.

 

[piano4112000]

IMO, Maxim was right when he implied that M/T weren't going to be allowed to win this competition, even if it happened that they did clearly outskate K/S (which they didn't, but the difference wasn't nearly as big as the point gap).

I think the RFSF is deliberately pushing K/S because they want M/T to make huge improvements in their skating, and to do that, they first have to work well together as a team. I think the forced rivalry is eventually going to accomplish exactly that.

M/T have to be kept on their toes just in case Yuko decides she doesn't want to give up her Japanese citizenship for the Olympics.

I remember reading before on a japanese board as well as some people have told me that Yuko has decided to get her Russian citizenship and that it was a go.

 

[Hsuhs]

My understanding was she'd try to get a dual citizenship first.

 

[Morgane]

The last information I got from the Russian boards and her interviews is that she is still thinking about it because it will be very difficult to get her Japanese citizenship back. But she is ready to do it if it appears they have good chances to get a medal at the Olympics.