Senior Ladies Short Jan 26 7:30 PM

[drivingmissdaisy]

Personally, unless there is some written rule that forbids it, I don't think any factor but performance should determine who goes to Worlds. The point is to win, not to pass out favors to all the lovely girls who work so hard. If Gracie kills at 4CC and no one else does, she'd be our strongest bet at Worlds too.

It's not about passing out favors to skaters who work hard. It was Gracie's choice (or the choice of her team) to not compete as a senior this season, despite being age eligible. It would be unprecedented to send a junior skater to senior Worlds, especially when she has not had to go head-to-head with any of our senior ladies. So many people complained last year about skaters being sent to Worlds over Jeremy, but at least they beat him in competition. Gracie is absolutely a great talent that I am excited to see develop, but I just worry that such a desperate act by the USFSA would be too much pressure for this 16 year old.

 

[demarinis5]

Really? And what are the chances of Alissa, Rachael, Ashley or Mirai bombing at Worlds?

So true.

I would be thrilled if Caroline made the world team. The way I see it is anyone's game, Gold and Silver should go to Worlds no matter who it is. The US has been trying to get 3 spots back for quite awhile personally I would like to see new blood at Worlds.

 

[lavender]

Wow, wow..... I don't care if Caroline's 3l/3l was downgraded because it looked awesome. Who knew she could even jump that high and have such a smooth ride out of that jump. I'm impressed.

 

[skfan]

It's not about passing out favors to skaters who work hard. It was Gracie's choice (or the choice of her team) to not compete as a senior this season, despite being age eligible. It would be unprecedented to send a junior skater to senior Worlds, especially when she has not had to go head-to-head with any of our senior ladies. So many people complained last year about skaters being sent to Worlds over Jeremy, but at least they beat him in competition. Gracie is absolutely a great talent that I am excited to see develop, but I just worry that such a desperate act by the USFSA would be too much pressure for this 16 year old.

absolutely. i can imagine how this would have gone down with the second place finisher if that second finisher was someone like tonya harding. we decided to annoint somebody who didn't even compete against you. heck, i am one of polina K's biggest fans and look at the 2 falls when she finally skates the Euro SP against the big girls, even after a 7 triple qualifying round. at least polina k competed against the seniors in her own country's nationals and earned her euro spot.

i would lose all remaining respect for the USFSA if they actually try to send gold to senior worlds.

 

[Jammers]

I think the fact that they are even considering sending Gracie to Senior Worlds is because the older girls just aren't getting it done. Mirai seems lost and has no fire Alissa is limited in her jumps and is getting older and Ashley has never put it together. Rachael is about done and i don't think that Caroline is ever going to contend for gold at a Worlds or Olympics. Gracie can do 3-3 combo's which will be needed against the Russian girls heading into Sochi and Agnes can do them to. The older girls for the most part can't do 3-3 combo's. What does it tell you that it was Caroline that did a 3-3 last night?

 

[skfan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjB_NFEO5hg

There's Caroline. The only one I found. What feed is that from?

thank you so much Ruffles78. so great to see caroline smiling like that, landing big jumps. without seeing agnes i can't say it yet but i wonder if when i've seen them all, this performance will be the one that warmed my heart the most of any in the SP's.

it looks like the same person uploaded both caroline and ashley, because that person is an ashley fan. thank heavens for Jsport in HD without commentary and kind uploaders and helpful vid finders

 

[Spun Silver]

I would only recommend sending GG if she goes to 4CC and has 2 great skates there, and if no one else steps up tomorrow in the FP in San Jose, and if there's no rule forbidding sending the junior champ. (I don't remember, but I think the rules give the USFSA some discretion in the choice of whom to send.) In which case she would have senior international experience. At 16 this could be her prime as a skater. (I'm not saying it is, but it could be. Remember Kimmie. And people are still talking about Mao having missed her best chance at Olympic gold because of the age rule.) In which case there would be regrets later if we don't send her.

Do the skaters and technical specialists here have reasons for judging that this is NOT her peak year? (Genuine question - I wouldn't know the answer.)

 

[macy]

Icenetwork was wearing me out though, it was freezing ALOT on me tonight. We had people over and the freezing got old fast. Hopefully no one else experienced it as badly.

Time for bed, I have to fly in the am.

it not only freezes for live events, but also when they post them on IN. its SO annoying and irritating. i'm probably going to email them about it.

 

[skfan]

I would only recommend sending GG if she goes to 4CC and has 2 great skates there, and if no one else steps up tomorrow in the FP in San Jose, and if there's no rule forbidding sending the junior champ. (I don't remember, but I think the rules give the USFSA some discretion in the choice of whom to send.) In which case she would have senior international experience. At 16 this could be her prime as a skater. (I'm not saying it is, but it could be. Remember Kimmie. And people are still talking about Mao having missed her best chance at Olympic gold because of the age rule.) In which case there would be regrets later if we don't send her.

Do the skaters and technical specialists here have reasons for judging that this is NOT her peak year? (Genuine question - I wouldn't know the answer.)

i disagree with 4CC as a method of selecting world team members, because i don't want a best 2 out of 3 deciding who goes--it should be a test of who can handle the pressure of one competition to decide it all IMO. what is a better test of someone's competitive mettle--a competition to decide it all, single elimination, or a series of competitions all counting a little toward the total? you want tough competitors, put them through a tough test.

i don't like what canada is doing, even though i vastly prefer phaneuf to lacoste and agree phaneuf will have a better shot at making the top 10, and i understand canada wanting 2 spots in worlds i their own country, just like i understand everybody's wish to get 3 US world spots back.

if you must use 4CC to decide the world team, shouldn't gold at least earn a chance to go to 4CC by competing against the other senior ladies who are vying for the world team? look at the hot disputes in japan and canada about the make up of 4CC teams--if it's become a competition of such great importance, then shouldn't one earn the right to go there, not just be annointed at the expense of somebody else who wants to go to 4CC?

 

[demarinis5]

it not only freezes for live events, but also when they post them on IN. its SO annoying and irritating. i'm probably going to email them about it.

That is why I gave up on IN. I did not subscribe this season. Some folks have no problem, unfortunately I was not one of them.

 

[Trewyn]

Wow like everyone else I'm pretty amazed at Caroline's 3-3!! Still hoping like crazy that Ashley will make the world team.
Gracie made her choice staying in Jrs this year. She'll likely be headed to Jr worlds and next year she can probably elect to do the Sr GP and make a statement.

 

[Tonichelle]

That is why I gave up on IN. I did not subscribe this season. Some folks have no problem, unfortunately I was not one of them.

I had a heck of a time unsubscribing from them last year. And they made it like it was my fault that they couldn't/wouldn't unsubscribe (they "automatically" resubscribed me... TWICE). Their lack of Customer Service killed it for me.

 

[FlattFan]

After looking at the protocol, I was right. Vanessa got the best step sequence last night. It was easy, it was fast, it was nice. Kudo to her on this front.

Girls who are overscored: Mirai, Ashley, Alissa,
Girls who are underscored: Caroline, Vanessa, Rachael. I don't understand why all 3 got negative GOE for their flips.

 

[lavender]

The videos are already gone.

 

[skfan]

The videos are already gone.

this one was found by polymer bob and it's up now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5WjkUWP_ZA

looks like american commentary--on icenetwork?

 

[kwanatic]

Very awesome event!

Agnes: WOW! How about that? Agnes has great speed, amazing coverage and wonderful ride out on all of her jumps. I love the energy she brought to the performance. I thought she'd be right on Alissa's tail, but she's +3 ahead of her! I wonder how she'll hold up in the long? I wasn't expecting her to be in the hunt for gold, but a solid LP and she just might find herself the US champion.

Alissa: Eh, same ol' same ol'. Pretty performance (I really do love the SP), but I was underwhelmed. At least she got past that hurdle. The LP will be tougher.

Ashley: Very happy to see her finally turn in a good SP. I think she was placed correctly and she has a great shot at one of those spots.

Caroline: Biggest surprise of the evening and best performance. She's shed the extra pounds and looks amazing, closer to the size she was when she did 4CC back in 2010. Her speed is much much better and her jumps looked great. My jaw dropped when she hit that 3l-3l! I would've given her full credit for just having the balls to attempt it; you can count on one hand how many ladies have attempted that combo in competition since Tara Lipinski. The rest of her skating looked light, easy and enjoyable. You can see how happy she is to be out there and I love that. Caroline has come such a long way and I'm so proud of her for sticking with it and not giving up. I hope she has a great LP and finishes top five...I'd love to see her 3rd, but I won't jinx her.

Mirai: In all honesty, it wasn't a disaster. But it still falls far below expectations. She looked good. She too looked as though she'd gotten rid of the fluffy weight she had at the beginning of the season. I thought her lutz combo had good height and spring, the spins were good...but I felt no energy whatsoever from her. She looks how Caroline used to look out on the ice: like it was almost painful to be out there. Watching a number of the other girls last night, I see just how far behind Mirai is in terms of performing. Her elements are good, her jumps are usually solid...but she leaves me feeling a bit cold and bored, which never used to happen. There's no life in her when she skates and that's so sad to see. I hope she has a strong LP and manages a top five finish. She's not out of the running yet but I don't know about her chances of winning.

Nina Jiang: I've had my eye on this girl since the novice championships a few years ago and I'm thrilled to see how well she's progressed! That program was my 2nd favorite performance of the night (behind Caroline). I loved it! Definitely channeling a bit of the Yu-Na Kim sexy/flirty side and she nailed it. It upsets me that 14 year old Nina Jiang can convincingly pull off saucy and bit seductive with no issues, yet 19 year old Mirai has issues with it. I don't get it. I digress... Nina was wonderful (I loved that entrance into the 2a) and I'm super-excited to see how she progresses from here onward. She is definitely one to look out for in the coming years.

Rachael: Given her GP performances, this one was stellar. But it's pretty obvious that no matter how well she does the judges have no intention of letting her anywhere near the world team, and she'd be lucky to get 4CC at this point. I expected her to score a 57 or 58...but 52? Yeah, the USFSA hasn't forgiven her for last year and they are making her pay out the @$$ for it. It's odd that that same program scored 62+ last year. She genuinely looked shocked when her scores came up. What I found interesting was that even though she was marked so low, no one in the audience seemed to protest the results. In the first group, I believe it was Haley Dunn who received a low score and the crowd booed very loudly. Everyone seemed to be accepting of Rachael's placement. Ah well. Her number is up at this point. The international judges have written her off and now the US ones has as well. I hope she has a strong skate for her sake, but I don't know how much more of Rachael we'll be seeing.

Re: Gracie gold going to worlds: I don't think that's going to happen. Gracie has awesome jumps, but she is far from being the full package. She'd receive the TES but she'd get pwned in the PCS against skaters like Mao, Carolina, and Akiko. I wish they'd stop rushing this girl and just let her progress. I'd prefer to see her against the junior world competitors because those are the ones that will be challenging for Soichi. And I think it'd be wrong to send her to 4CC as well. Not only would that be snatching spots from the senior ladies who earned it, does she even have a senior level program? Would there be enough time for her to rework her program for 4CC and then downshift again for jr worlds? These people just need to lay off and leave her alone. She'll be eligible for senior worlds next year, along with Liza T and Adelina. I'd like to see a three of them duking it out against the older senior ladies as the new wave of ladies skaters. Gracie will get there...but if they're considering it, that proves just how desperate the USFSA is...it's getting a bit pathetic at this point.

 

[lavender]

this one was found by polymer bob and it's up now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5WjkUWP_ZA

looks like american commentary--on icenetwork?

Thank you so much skfan!!

 

[gottadance]

4CC as the " decider "

i disagree with 4CC as a method of selecting world team members, because i don't want a best 2 out of 3 deciding who goes--it should be a test of who can handle the pressure of one competition to decide it all IMO. what is a better test of someone's competitive mettle--a competition to decide it all, single elimination, or a series of competitions all counting a little toward the total? you want tough competitors, put them through a tough test.

i don't like what canada is doing, even though i vastly prefer phaneuf to lacoste and agree phaneuf will have a better shot at making the top 10, and i understand canada wanting 2 spots in worlds i their own country, just like i understand everybody's wish to get 3 US world spots back.

if you must use 4CC to decide the world team, shouldn't gold at least earn a chance to go to 4CC by competing against the other senior ladies who are vying for the world team? look at the hot disputes in japan and canada about the make up of 4CC teams--if it's become a competition of such great importance, then shouldn't one earn the right to go there, not just be annointed at the expense of somebody else who wants to go to 4CC?

I hate to disagree with you ( and of course I totally respect your right to your opinion ) but I have come to think that using 4CC as a final decider in certain circumstances is actually good. It seems the Japanese are doing it regularly and now the Canadians have done it for the first time, this season.

Sadly ( IMHO ) the ISU rules for the number of skaters per country are such that it places the individual country's selection committees in a very very hard situation. A bad decision can result in fewer spots for the following season's Worlds ( like the US men this year ) which can , in turn, have a negative impact on the number of skaters eligible for the Olympics. So, if there is another opportunity to assess skaters who are very close in marks by using 4CC , why not? At the end of the day everybody wants to see the US represented by the best skaters who have proven themselves in more than one competition. It woudl take the pressure off the judges, the selection committee and the skaters themselves. I would say that the National Champion shoudl go for sure but that the remaining spots could be decided at 4CC in the event that they are very close at Nationals.

I fear that they are going to prop Alissa up with inflated PCS scores on Saturday - she seemed over marked last night to me. Her speed and transitions are average but what really bothers me is that her jumps are so tentative and have no height - Agnes' jumps just seem to soar and Alissa's make me nervous to watch and yet the difference in marks somehow doesnt seem to reflect that ??? Am I missing something ? I also cant help but feel that Alissa always presents the same type of program - very lovely very elegant yes, but nothing different from one season to the next .

 

[macy]

as far as gracie being considered for worlds, i don't think it's a good idea. 4cc, yes, i think that would be great. but worlds is really pushing it, she's only had 1 international assigment ever and that would reallly be pushing her quickly and she's not ready to handle that big of a pressue yet. unless she does great at 4cc (if she goes) and is willing to do worlds still given the option, then for sure, go ahead.

this is off topic, but why does everyone think hannah miller's jumps are small? i think they're average. vanessa lam hardly gets off the ice at all, i really don't think there's any comparison there...

as far as mirai goes, i'm just not into her anymore. all this season her programs have no heart, no fire, no will to even be doing them. there's no love anymore. even last year her skating started to dwindle.

agnes did great last night, but i don't like her music at all. awesome jumps though, so high and big and clean. she finishes the rotation before she lands. but i thought her choreography wasn't anything to jump up and down about either. i know a few people have said her PCS should have been above alissas, and i really don't agree with that. alissa's presentation is just exquisite and beautiful. in my opinion the only skater that compares to her is carolina kostner. agnes did well technically, but artistically it could have been better. she didn't captivate me.

i feel bad for rachael, a lot. i hope she doesn't read forums like these, a lot of the things people say would hurt. yes it probably is going to come down to either college or skating, but i know she doesn't want to think that. she's a very ambitious and driven girl, but no one can do it all and be perfect. and if you can, you're just crazy i'm still rooting for her though, and even though her PCS has been inflated at times, i've always loved her confidence and consistency. i hope Reliable Rachael isn't gone yet, but just taking a vacation.

i'm so happy for caroline! i hope she's back and didn't just have a streak of luck in the SP. i'm very impressed with her effort. almost an alissa czisny experience, but not as extreme IMO. i thought the judges would have given her the credit for the second 3L, but oh well. everything else was lovely.

Ashley skated a great program and was very confident, but gosh, her ego is really starting to bother me. i hope she doesn't jinx herself. i would like to see her make the world team, but not to win, to maybe give her a reality check and lessen her ego. it's just kind of gotten a little boast-y and almost snotty at times.

and does anyone have any LP practice reports??

 

[lavender]

Caroline: Biggest surprise of the evening and best performance. She's shed the extra pounds and looks amazing, closer to the size she was when she did 4CC back in 2010. Her speed is much much better and her jumps looked great. My jaw dropped when she hit that 3l-3l! I would've given her full credit for just having the balls to attempt it;

ITA. She might have been just a hair off from what I can see but it was awesome. I would have given her the credit.

It's gotten pretty bad for me to start paying attention to Rachel and feel bad for her. Wishing her well...

Ashley skated a great program and was very confident, but gosh, her ego is really starting to bother me. i hope she doesn't jinx herself. i would like to see her make the world team, but not to win, to maybe give her a reality check and lessen her ego. it's just kind of gotten a little boast-y and almost snotty at times.

I always felt like Ashley had this ego imo. Just a feeling I'd get from her every now and then. It's one of the reasons that I'm not really a fan although I do enjoy some of her skating.