Senior Men's Short Program, Fri. 1/27 at 10 pm EST

[jcoates]

During the 2006 Olympics, Dick would not shut up (which was my basic point, he got more chatty as he got older, particularly during the Kwan years). He interrupted Sandra and Tracy constantly. It was like he was trying to make up for not calling the Olympics since 88. Sandra sounded like she wanted to strangle him, while Tracy was more patient. By the ladies event it was clear someone had told him to tone it down a bit. During the pairs, he was really going for it. Also, NBC put waaay too many people in the booth that year. That was part of the problem last night. Use Johnny or Tania but not both.

Navarro was not bad, as much as she was extremely tentative the whole time. She could not relax and settle in well enough to speak clearly. She was stumbling over her words the whole time. At least Johnny spoke clearly and effectively. That matters more to me.

 

[Spun Silver]

OK, here's a "late" Uncle Dick. He doesn't even open his mouth until 3:08. He doesn't interrupt Peggy. His comments and excitement are all about the performance. He's not going on and on about hair, eyebrows, conversations at the mall, and his personal opinions about the skaters. He's actually watching Kwan. Don't tell me Johnny was really paying attention to Jeremy, in fact he was doing everything he could to distract attention from him. Of course I can't post a link to the performance to document that, but I've heard enough of Uncle Dick to say that you can put any commentary of Uncle Dick's next to that one of Johnny's and it will be obvious which one is ruder and more distracting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWQSoIEAxns

BTW, I was a big fan of Johnny's skating. His talking is amusing, but a little of it goes a long way for me - especially in commentary!

Navarro was to the point, informative, and low-key - she actually kept her voice low specifically so as not to distract from the skating (at least that's how it sounded). I'm sure she can improve, but her basic approach was very good, IMO.

 

[SLouise]

OK, here's a "late" Uncle Dick. He doesn't even open his mouth until 3:08. He doesn't interrupt Peggy. His comments and excitement are all about the performance. He's not going on and on about hair, eyebrows, conversations at the mall, and his personal opinions about the skaters. He's actually watching Kwan. Don't tell me Johnny was really paying attention to Jeremy, in fact he was doing everything he could to distract attention from him. Of course I can't post a link to the performance to document that, but I've heard enough of Uncle Dick to say that you can put any commentary of Uncle Dick's next to that one of Johnny's and it will be obvious which one is ruder and more distracting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWQSoIEAxns

BTW, I was a big fan of Johnny's skating. His talking is amusing, but a little of it goes a long way for me - especially in commentary!

Navarro was to the point, informative, and low-key - she actually kept her voice low specifically so as not to distract from the skating (at least that's how it sounded). I'm sure she can improve, but her basic approach was very good, IMO.

What I noticed watching that was how low the mics were for the commentators. Even when they are talking you can still clearly hear the music & the crowd. I think maybe IN has their commentator mics up too loud, so the talking blocks out portions of the music & becomes too much of a distraction, (at least it does for me - a lot of other people didn't seem to mind).

Now that I've been put in the mood for Michelle Kwan programs, I think I'll pop over to YouTube to look up more of them.

 

[Mathman]

OK, here's a "late" Uncle Dick. He doesn't even open his mouth until 3:08. He doesn't interrupt Peggy. His comments and excitement are all about the performance. He's not going on and on about hair, eyebrows, conversations at the mall, and his personal opinions about the skaters. He's actually watching Kwan....

And then...as she hits her last jump and starts in on her footwork sequence, Uncle Dick can contain himself no longer:

"She's got this audience in her hand! Look at that heart on her sleeve! This is magnificent! Good for her, good for her!"

And as the scores come up, "Oh my God, look at that! Ha ha ha ha! Doesn't that tell you something? Doesn't that tell you something!!"

 

[Poodlepal]

I loved Johnny's commentary. Usually, they say all the same things: good position, bad position, wrong edge, or if they are taking AP classes, they may comment on that (or one other random fact). Johnny commented on their hair and costumes, reminisced about necklaces falling off and had something nice to say about everybody. Good job!

 

[jcoates]

I stand by my comments about Dick being very chatty. He may not have been super wordy when Michelle skated, but he sure was for plenty of other people, especially if he was criticizing them, something he almost never did for Kwan except perhaps for her layback.

If you would note in my comments about Kim, I am critical of her delivery and not her content. In contrast, you are focusing on her content and not her delivery. Both are important to good broadcasting. I never implied or declared that she could not improve.

As for Johnny, the tone of the criticism of him last night from multiple posters was a little harsh for my taste and seemed to center on not just the volume of his comments, but also the fact that they were not typically masculine in their content. Peggy for instance frequently focused on many of the same things as Johnny did last night (hair, makeup, fashion, music, mood, etc.) during her 30 years in the booth. Tracy, by contrast has made use of references to other sports in her commentary in both the US and Canada (especially baseball and basketball; perhaps something she's familiar with as a mother of sons). In truth Johnny made no greater number of obscure references than Scott does about guys being guys wanting to show each other up, girls being either adorably cute or women being stunningly beautiful, his being outjumped by Boitano and Orser or just grunting and screaming every time someone jumps or does spins he never did.

Ok this is really not worth arguing about beyond this point, particularly given how utterly inconsequential it all is.

 

[Puchi]

Ok, now I know everything Johnny said, how he said it and what everybody felt while listening to him, but can someone please tell me what was Abbott's jump layout? He didn't go for the quad, did he?

 

[jcoates]

Same as the rest of the top three, 3a, 3f-3t, 3z.

Here's the link to the protocols:
http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2012/68266/results.html

Click the plus sign next to each name to expand them to see scoring breakdowns

 

[emma]

I loved Johnny's commentary. Usually, they say all the same things: good position, bad position, wrong edge, or if they are taking AP classes, they may comment on that (or one other random fact). Johnny commented on their hair and costumes, reminisced about necklaces falling off and had something nice to say about everybody. Good job!

I am impressed, though, that Weir not only said good this or that, but precisely what it was and what was good about it. Also love that he can pronounce everyone's names (including coaches and places) correctly. Yes, keep him commentating forever, seriously - but, he does have to back off a little during performance or the home audience will never ever be able to 'be in the moment' too. but, gosh, most informed commentator and informative in a long time for me. Plus, he was generous to the skaters

Ok, now I know everything Johnny said, how he said it and what everybody felt while listening to him, but can someone please tell me what was Abbott's jump layout? He didn't go for the quad, did he?

I forget the order - but I think it was a triple flip triple toe combo; triple axel, and triple lutz out of steps. Great foot work but don't know the level and interesting spins but, Weir noted he traveled wildly on the first combo spin and I thought the last one was better but not perfect in terms of centering; on computer, speed of it looked good.

 

[Puchi]

Thanks jcoates and emma for the quick replies!

 

[Art&Sport]

Does anyone know whether the pre-men's sp commentary is up on Icenetwork? Is it accessible via their Ice Desk. I didn't see the men's sp live, so I'm wondering about that. Will the commentary by Weir et al be during the fp only? Thanks.

 

[Serious Business]

I got the chance to see the men's SP in total at last. Notes:

Richard Dornbush:

Total meltdown! I see he hasn't improved his posture any. Nice entrance into that flying camel, which he promptly ruins by one of the fugliest skate grab variation I've seen. He mimes shooting himself in the head in the kiss & cry, then says "let me go again". At least he's funny.

Adam Rippon:

The difference is clear before he even makes a move: shoulders squared, head held high, face relaxed. Brilliant skate. Did his stroking improve? It seems to me it did, but I'd like to hear more opinions on it. The Rippon lutz never looked so good.

Scott Dyer:

Great posture! That back never rounds, no matter what he does. Very old school. Amazing sit spin with its positions and speed.

Alexander Johnson:

Elegant performance, mostly. Decent spin positions, if only he could control the spins better.

Alexander AIken:

What stubby little limbs! He's the male version of Rachael Flatt.

William Brewser:

A ginger! And he turned redder and redder as the program went on.

Ross Miner:

He's so steady yet speedy in his stroking, he'd make a great on-ice waiter. Nice jumps except for the stepout. This latin music is all wrong for him unless he can loosen up.

Jonathan Cassar:

The first skater to get level 4s on all applicable elements. The choreography seems a bit off, though. Stilted, perhaps. Did not go well with Tango De Roxanne.

Wesley Campbell:

No! NO! That neck is just ridiculous. Forget Ilia Kulik, here's the real skating giraffe.

Daniel Raad:

He's 24? I don't believe it. Looks over 50. I demand to see receipts! When I first saw him I was like, "what is that coach doing on that side of the boards?" Skating to Kashmir? Isn't that music a bit new for him?

Max Aaron:

Nice jumps, but skates with about as much style as his upholstery of a costume.

Grant Hochstein:

Light, lovely performance. Second skater to get all level 4s. For level 4 footwork, that did not drag or seem overlong at all. However, blue velvet pants with a blue top in a slightly different shade of blue? Should be a costume violation.

Brandon Mroz:

That whole suave act works a lot better when one can actually skate, and not fall on your behind.

Douglas Razzano:

In HD, you can see and old man yawning behind Douglas during his camel spin. I know how you feel, old dude. The most exciting part of this performance was the fall.

Keegan Messing:

OK, now I'm up. Nice to see he hasn't lost any of his gusto. He's not Robin Hood, he's the arrow. Rough but fun performance.

Jason Brown:

The third skater to get all level 4s. Skating with a twinkle in his eyes. Another year, another standing ovation! Amazing skater, although I'd like to see him try to loosen up his arms and hands a bit.

Jeremy Abbott:

Genius!

Armin Mahbanoozadeh:

The last skater to get all level 4's. Killer posture. He started out so serious, but soon couldn't help but grin his way through a great performance.

Joshua Farris:

Those ridiculous ins on his sleeves would work a lot better if he actually skated with speed.

Stephen Carriere:

He's still alive? Ain't that something. Needs to straighten out his back.

 

[jcoates]

Does anyone know whether the pre-men's sp commentary is up on Icenetwork? Is it accessible via their Ice Desk. I didn't see the men's sp live, so I'm wondering about that. Will the commentary by Weir et al be during the fp only? Thanks.

Johnny's commentary is included in the archived video of the men's SP as is the commentary for the other senior events.

 

[Art&Sport]

Johnny's commentary is included in the archived video of the men's SP as is the commentary for the other senior events.

Thanks, but when I started watching the men's sp, it went right into Dornbush's sp without the warm-up section where I believe there must have also been commentary? In addition, aren't Johnny and others interviewing/ dishing on the backstage Ice Desk? Is that only shown live? IN makes it so difficult to find out where/ how to access their videos. It seems so random.

BTW, as I'm watching Johnny made a mistake stating that Scott Dyer was making his senior Nats debut. Not true. Dyer competed in seniors at last year's Nats. Tsk tsk Johnny. They should have all these details accurate and not speak off-the-cuff. (I guess only we fans should be able to get away with that).

 

[emma]

Thanks, but when I started watching the men's sp, it went right into Dornbush's sp without the warm-up section where I believe there must have also been commentary? In addition, aren't Johnny and others interviewing/ dishing on the backstage Ice Desk? Is that only shown live? IN makes it so difficult to find out where/ how to access their videos. It seems so random.

BTW, as I'm watching Johnny made a mistake stating that Scott Dyer was making his senior Nats debut. Not true. Dyer competed in seniors at last year's Nats. Tsk tsk Johnny. They should have all these details accurate and not speak off-the-cuff. (I guess only we fans should be able to get away with that).

Johnny hadn't arrived in time for the warm for the first group....he got there just as Dornbush was about to begin. I haven't seen the Ice Desk...I think he is there, but don't know.

So, I guess that is two mistakes he made .... Dyer in his second senior nationals, and apparently, Abbot's boot cover thing is totally appropriate to the swing dance. Still, far more knowledgeable and way more articulate than most.

 

[SLouise]

I stand by my comments about Dick being very chatty. He may not have been super wordy when Michelle skated, but he sure was for plenty of other people, especially if he was criticizing them, something he almost never did for Kwan except perhaps for her layback.

If you would note in my comments about Kim, I am critical of her delivery and not her content. In contrast, you are focusing on her content and not her delivery. Both are important to good broadcasting. I never implied or declared that she could not improve.

As for Johnny, the tone of the criticism of him last night from multiple posters was a little harsh for my taste and seemed to center on not just the volume of his comments, but also the fact that they were not typically masculine in their content. Peggy for instance frequently focused on many of the same things as Johnny did last night (hair, makeup, fashion, music, mood, etc.) during her 30 years in the booth. Tracy, by contrast has made use of references to other sports in her commentary in both the US and Canada (especially baseball and basketball; perhaps something she's familiar with as a mother of sons). In truth Johnny made no greater number of obscure references than Scott does about guys being guys wanting to show each other up, girls being either adorably cute or women being stunningly beautiful, his being outjumped by Boitano and Orser or just grunting and screaming every time someone jumps or does spins he never did.

Ok this is really not worth arguing about beyond this point, particularly given how utterly inconsequential it all is.

I'm not going to read back through all the posts, but I don't recall anyone saying Johnny's comments weren't "masculine enough". I resent what you are implying there.
Yes, Dick & Peggy did comment a lot about hair, costumes, etc, and when they did it while a skater was performing, I found it just as annoying.

As for the volume, that's an issue with IN, and not with Tonia, Johnny, or the other guy, (sorry, I forget his name at the moment).

My own personal preference for commentators is that they speak as little as possible, while the skater is performing, and that their comments apply only to what's happening on the ice.
Save the comments about hair, funny things the skaters have said, coaching issues, etc. for before and after they skate.

I realize that others disagree with me. That's fine. It's just my opinion.

 

[jcoates]

Resent if you wish. The comments centered on Johnny's comments on his sparkly pen (which he said was in his purse), his comments on hair and eyebrows, etc. They were all advising that he "tone it down". I read that as asking his to less flamboyant and less himself, to be more mainstream and acceptable to the broader audience. It took a couple of pages for people to start actively noticing the other comments he made which were insightful and dissected the technical errors and successes of the skaters. The implication was quite clear, that he should not only be talking less, but that he should not be talking about those particular subjects. It is quite common for men in particular to be told what they can and can't comment on for fear of appearing to not be masculine enough. Hair and makeup are certainly considered subjects that fall into that category whether you like it or not. Good for Johnny for thumbing his nose at established norms.

 

[Violet Bliss]

There has never before been a competition where the focus is on the commentator, especially one who has never won Worlds. Congratulations, Johnny!

 

[SLouise]

Resent if you wish. The comments centered on Johnny's comments on his sparkly pen (which he said was in his purse), his comments on hair and eyebrows, etc. They were all advising that he "tone it down". I read that as asking his to less flamboyant and less himself, to be more mainstream and acceptable to the broader audience. It took a couple of pages for people to start actively noticing the other comments he made which were insightful and dissected the technical errors and successes of the skaters. The implication was quite clear, that he should not only be talking less, but that he should not be talking about those particular subjects. It is quite common for men in particular to be told what they can and can't comment on for fear of appearing to not be masculine enough. Hair and makeup are certainly considered subjects that fall into that category whether you like it or not. Good for Johnny for thumbing his nose at established norms.

I was one of the "tone it down" posters and I can assure you I was refering to his hyper talking during the performances. I can't speak for others, but maybe that's what they meant as well. I don't think the implication was clear at all, but I can't read minds, so maybe I'm wrong.

 

[emma]

I was one of the "tone it down" posters and I can assure you I was refering to his hyper talking during the performances. I can't speak for others, but maybe that's what they meant as well. I don't think the implication was clear at all, but I can't read minds, so maybe I'm wrong.

I'm pretty sure I was totally consistently "I love Weir's commentating," but I did start to want him to tone it down or dial it down a notch, during the actual skating. And, that is what I meant too ....just give us a little more room in the program to hear the music and see the skater without distraction.

I also did say maybe a little less on fashion and make up; not NO fashion or make-up, just a little less and absolutely I did say, and no fashion while skating. But that isn't the same as saying not fashion, make-up or eyebrows at all. I don't know, but my sense is that lot's of people liked lot's of things in his commentary, which given how his comments to the media have sparked such long debates, is interesting.

PS: I love to imagine his sparkly pen, and only wish IN would give us a visual of the commentators if only once.