Senior Pairs Free Skate

[Nadine]

Ah, I love your invaluable comments, FlattFan, throughout this entire competition, much much appreciated!

My only wish now is that D&S skate in or near Washington State sometime, even over in Canada, which is only 2 hrs. away from Seattle, same goes for Oregon. Lol, this is why I was able to go to not only the Olympics, but Skate America as well. I don't fly, though I do take the train if need be.

 

[FlattFan]

Thanks Nadine. I appreciate that.

 

[blue_idealist]

Oh, so Donlan and Speroff don't do SBS triples? That explains why NBC chacked them, even though they finished 4th. I actually have never seen them except for some old youtube video, which I thought they were pretty good in.

 

[clairecloutier]

Oh, so Donlan and Speroff don't do SBS triples? That explains why NBC chacked them, even though they finished 4th. I actually have never seen them except for some old youtube video, which I thought they were pretty good in.

I saw both Donlan/Speroff and Castelli/Shnapir at this year's Evening with Champions show at Harvard. Both teams impressed me quite a lot. Donlan/Speroff were very elegant, with lovely line and extension and great connection between them. As I recall, they did have trouble with either a SBS jump or a throw. With them, it was really the overall quality of their skating that stood out.

With Castelli/Shnapir, it was their speed, ice coverage, and big tricks. They did a huge throw triple Salchow at the show, as well as the lift with Marissa in the upside-down split position. They were showstoppers! Very exciting to watch, and boy, did they cover the ice easily. Seeing them live, they skate much "bigger" than Donlan/Speroff. Their lift went the length of the rink with absolutely no problem. I like C/S a lot, although they still need to improve, and was disappointed they didn't skate better yesterday. I'd been hoping they'd make the podium. I really hope they stay together and continue to push on, I think they have a lot of potential.

 

[dorispulaski]

I love both of those New England teams, and particularly love that they are different from the other teams, probably because they are not using the same coaches and choreographers that teams have been using for years.

Nadine, I'm thinking D&S could do a quad twist or a quad salchow throw to get more base value, given the huge height & distance they get on twists and throws. And they need to do the jumps, rather than pop them.

Both Takahashi / Tran and Sui / Han get credit for big tricks even when their jumps are no good; Pang & Tong often did not land their side by side jumps well. I think the US has to just get Donlan and Speroff out there.

And improving speed would be a good thing, always, although they looked quite fast on TV.

USFS needs to send them to a round of Senior B's so that they get some international credit. I don't think I've ever heard Peter Carruthers go crazy about a lower placed team as much as he did about Donlan & Speroff.

 

[Jammers]

John is almost as bad to watch as Caydee. His lines are dreadful and he's so stiff. Yes he has power and speed but not much else. Denny and Coughlin almost got beat by a team with a skater that only took up Pairs about 16 months ago. If Rockne doesn't screw up they would have won. At Worlds Coughlin and Denny's style won't be as appreciated.

 

[FlattFan]

John is almost as bad to watch as Caydee. His lines are dreadful and he's so stiff. Yes he has power and speed but not much else. Denny and Coughlin almost got beat by a team with a skater that only took up Pairs about 16 months ago. If Rockne doesn't screw up they would have won. At Worlds Coughlin and Denny's style won't be as appreciated.

The other partner in that team was part of the Jr. World Champ, national champ twice. D/C did not almost got beat. They won by a large margin. Even if Rockne didn't screw up his two jumping passes, it still would be a close one since all of their elements are inferior. It wasn't like Rockne and Mary Beth had better lutz twist, better DS, better pair spins, better SBS spins.

I don't think D/C can improve further from the LP they just put out. Now they need to keep the speed and the magic and the jumps and throws. I can see them only behind V/T, S/S, K/S. If they skate like that, they will handily beat the Canadians and even B/L if B messes up her jumps.

 

[tulosai]

The other partner in that team was part of the Jr. World Champ, national champ twice. D/C did not almost got beat. They won by a large margin. Even if Rockne didn't screw up his two jumping passes, it still would be a close one since all of their elements are inferior. It wasn't like Rockne and Mary Beth had better lutz twist, better DS, better pair spins, better SBS spins.

I don't think D/C can improve further from the LP they just put out. Now they need to keep the speed and the magic and the jumps and throws. I can see them only behind V/T, S/S, K/S. If they skate like that, they will handily beat the Canadians and even B/L if B messes up her jumps.

Did you see Duhamel/Radford's Canadian nationals skate? D/C will not beat them if both teams go clean.

I do agree they can handily beat Dube/Wolfe. I don't think they can possibly go ahead of B/L unless B/L mess up more than the jumps. B/L will kill them on PCS.

 

[DianaSelene]

The other partner in that team was part of the Jr. World Champ, national champ twice. D/C did not almost got beat. They won by a large margin. Even if Rockne didn't screw up his two jumping passes, it still would be a close one since all of their elements are inferior. It wasn't like Rockne and Mary Beth had better lutz twist, better DS, better pair spins, better SBS spins.

I don't think D/C can improve further from the LP they just put out. Now they need to keep the speed and the magic and the jumps and throws. I can see them only behind V/T, S/S, K/S. If they skate like that, they will handily beat the Canadians and even B/L if B messes up her jumps.

What B/L will lose in TES, they will have much higher PCS than D/C.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Yeah, B/L's PCS will be top five. And the GOES on the stuff they do well (twist, lifts) will help make up for base value loss.

D/R vs D/C is a tougher conundrum. D/R have a major base value advantage over D/C, the PCS will likely be close, and even if you give GOE to D/C, I don't think it's a walk in the park, like you describe FlattFan. 4CC will be interesting, though.

 

[FlattFan]

What B/L will lose in TES, they will have much higher PCS than D/C.

B/L skated their best in the TEB 2011 LP, and their PCS 60.51
D/C skated average in the SA 2011 LP, and their PCS 56.42

D/C can beat B/L by more than 4 points in TES.

 

[FlattFan]

D/R vs D/C is a tougher conundrum. D/R have a major base value advantage over D/C, the PCS will likely be close, and even if you give GOE to D/C, I don't think it's a walk in the park, like you describe FlattFan. 4CC will be interesting, though.

I think if D/C skated like they did yesterday, it would be hard for D/R to beat them. D/C's PCS were not so good because they were not clean earlier in the year. The international judges haven't seen that kind of performance yet.

 

[tulosai]

B/L skated their best in the TEB 2011 LP, and their PCS 60.51
D/C skated average in the SA 2011 LP, and their PCS 56.42

D/C can beat B/L by more than 4 points in TES.

While you can't compare across competitions, and it was an all European panel, B/L just got 63.09 in PCS at Euros. As someone else said they will also get higher GOEs on their lifts and twists. I really am confident that they will beat D/C unless they mess up several elements and D/C are perfect.

 

[tulosai]

I think if D/C skated like they did yesterday, it would be hard for D/R to beat them. D/C's PCS were not so good because they were not clean earlier in the year. The international judges haven't seen that kind of performance yet.

I acknowledge that this is potentially a closer call than (in my mind anyway) D/C and B/L. However, D/R have a major advantage in base value, prettier lifts, and more international experience. If both teams go clean, D/C won't beat them. A perfect D/C could potentially beat a flawed D/R, though. I guess we'll see.

ETA: Sorry for the double post.

 

[FlattFan]

While you can't compare across competitions, and it was an all European panel, B/L just got 63.09 in PCS at Euros. As someone else said they will also get higher GOEs on their lifts and twists. I really am confident that they will beat D/C unless they mess up several elements and D/C are perfect.

Like I said, if D/C repeated their LP at Worlds, and B/L missed the jumps, D/C would beat them.

 

[DianaSelene]

Like I said, if D/C repeated their LP at Worlds, and B/L missed the jumps, D/C would beat them.

And my point is that if D/C repeat their LP at worlds, and B/L miss the jumps, fall on their throw jumps, and have a bad lift, then D/C will beat them.

 

[tulosai]

And my point is that if D/C repeat their LP at worlds, and B/L miss the jumps, fall on their throw jumps, and have a bad lift, then D/C will beat them.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::agree::yay:

 

[FlattFan]

And my point is that if D/C repeat their LP at worlds, and B/L miss the jumps, fall on their throw jumps, and have a bad lift, then D/C will beat them.

Hehe, you think B/L will need to miss both jumps, fall on both throws, have a bad lift for a perfect D/C to beat them?
No need to look further than Skate America 2011. D/C missed one jump. B/L missed both jumps and stepped out on one of the throw or something and lost.
If D/C skated like they did, B/L can't afford to miss both jumps and place above them. B/L aren't K/S, V/T, S/S. They don't have 2 fall advantage over anyone else. B/L would be delusional to think they can stay in the top 10 with that kind of performance.

 

[DianaSelene]

Hehe, you think B/L will need to miss both jumps, fall on both throws, have a bad lift for a perfect D/C to beat them?
No need to look further than Skate America 2011. D/C missed one jump. B/L missed both jumps and stepped out on one of the throw or something and lost.
If D/C skated like they did, B/L can't afford to miss both jumps and place above them. B/L aren't K/S, V/T, S/S. They don't have 2 fall advantage over anyone else. B/L would be delusional to think they can stay in the top 10 with that kind of performance.

IT WAS SKATE AMERICA. Sorry but D/C had an advantage in AMERICA. It was ridiculous that B/L lost to D/C there. Not gonna happen again. And it would be delusional for you to think that B/L would ever not be in top 10 unless they had an injury.

 

[FlattFan]

IT WAS SKATE AMERICA. Sorry but D/C had an advantage in AMERICA. It was ridiculous that B/L lost to D/C there. Not gonna happen again. And it would be delusional for you to think that B/L would ever not be in top 10 unless they had an injury.

B/L should worry about their spot first. Maybe they won't even get to be out of the top 10 in the 2014 Olympics. I predict they will not even make World next year.