Shibsib spat

[NanaPat]

Back to the Shibutanis. I wonder what their coaches role is in all of this.

Like some other posters, I couldn't hear the video well. But I did get the impression that Alex said something about spending the whole drive to the rink explaining to her where (in his opinion) she was going wrong, and he expected her to snap to it and do what he told her. When she didn't, he became angry and abusive.

I don't think it is normal or healthy for a partner to be diagnosing problems and correcting their partner. That should be the coach's job. At the very least, it doesn't seem to be working in this case. It doesn't seem to occur to Alex that his diagnosis or explanation could be flawed, which is why they aren't producing the desired results.

I certainly hope that wasn't the coach just standing and watching this all unfold. My guess (pure speculation) is that they are struggling and have scheduled extra practice sessions to address their problems, but their coach is unavailable. That would explain the "change of schedule" that led to the streaming being on, though it is usually off when they are practicing.

If that is the case, then I think it's time for the coach to step in and assert strongly that SHE is the coach, and that Alex's efforts at coaching are misplaced and counterproductive. They should NOT be practicing together without suitable supervision.

And I also think that Alex Shibutani should NEVER teach or coach skating or any other subject. He has neither the skill nor the temperament for it.

 

[NanaPat]

I did not ask AI, just Google search as was proposed in the post I was responding to,

I just did an ordinary Google search as well. Google has started throwing in an AI summary at the start of the results.

Sometimes the AI summary is pretty good, sometimes it's laughably bad. It's especially bad at counting. When asked for a figure skater who had skated for 3 different countries, it gave me Deanna Stellato! And when asked for a 5-letter answer for something, it had several suggestions, none of them with 5 letters!

 

[4everchan]

I got :
AI : "there are two"
Wikipedia : figure skating
Wikipedia: bid

It may depend on country of origin as well as browsing history. Both seem to be treated pretty equally for me.

The news were big in Canada about the corruption.
Dick Pound, at that time, was an important member of the IOC if I recall correctly. Quebec City had submitted what many considered a very beautiful bid. It wasn't perfect (downhill for men was a question mark as the mountain was deemed a bit too small) but there was an impression that Quebec City had great chances to welcome the games and some even had the impression that it were among favourites because of the alternance of continents.

Quebec City finished last, with only a bit more than a handful of votes out of almost 100 votes (my memory) while Salt Lake City was declared winner after the initial round, way ahead of the other contenders from Europe.

The news at that time were big in Quebec because rumours were that Salt Lake City had "bought" the vote by the many gifts IOC voting members and delegates were receiving upon visiting SLC. It was customary to give some small tokens for the visiting voting members but the gifts presented from the SLC organizing committee were exceptionally substantial.

I am writing this from memory as the news marked me from my side of the world so indeed, back then, at least from my perspective, it was a huge scandal... one of many more to come.

 

[TallyT]

Google has started throwing in an AI summary at the start of the results.

Words cannot describe how much I loathe and abhor AI overview and the fact that we can't block it. A subling who doesn't hate it quite as much was playing around, was googling the family names and should I let you all know know I have died? (In three different years?)

 

[NanaPat]

Words cannot describe how much I loathe and abhor AI overview and the fact that we can't block it. A subling who doesn't hate it quite as much was playing around, was googling the family names and should I let you all know know I have died? (In three different years?)

With regular Google results, you can click on the link to see the context around the key words that Google found, and can evaluate the source. For instance, for medical information, you can distinguish between "my very personal medical journey.com" and the mayo clinic website. Some people may put more emphasis one one or the other, but at least you can "consider the source" if you know what the source is.

Because AI just writes you a little essay, you have no idea what sources it is using, whether it is reading those sources correctly, or whether it's just making things up!
__________________________
PS. Please accept my deepest condolences for your untimely demise.

 

[TallyT]

__________________________
PS. Please accept my deepest condolences for your untimely demise.

Demises, surely

 

[bostonskaterguy86]

Something I picked up on that I don’t think I’ve seen mentioned yet - Alex says both of the following:

“Why should I compromise and just try to match how you’re skating, so that I also don’t get the level? So that I also struggle? I’m gonna be the reason why we’re gonna be able to get through it. I’m not hurt. Yet.”

“You keep messing up the rocker...I changed it to make it easier for you.”

He puts a sharp emphasis on the word “I’m” in “I’m not hurt” that sounds to me like he’s drawing a contrast between the two of them - as if to make the point that Maia’s been hurt, but he hasn’t. And of course he spends much of the rest of the video lobbing various criticisms at her - but it seems to me like most of the conflict is around this rocker in their step sequence that he says he had to change to accommodate her.

I think part of the reason they’ve been out of sight so far this season is that she’s been struggling with injuries - totally understandable given her health issues in the past six years. It’s unacceptable to talk to your skating partner the way he did at the best of times - but if I’m right, and she’s been struggling with injuries on top of all this, it’s just that much crueler of him to blame her the way he does.

 

[Kiki5375]

My guess (pure speculation) is that they are struggling and have scheduled extra practice sessions to address their problems, but their coach is unavailable. That would explain the "change of schedule" that led to the streaming being on, though it is usually off when they are practicing.

I don't think it was "the streaming being on". If you look how the camera follows them I am sure that was not a webcam. There was someone filming it on purpose which makes me think that it didn't happen for the first time and whoever filmed it wanted to prove something.

 

[reneerose]

After seeing this I'm wondering...how does a person end up filming this from an upper row in the rink and no one notices they are being filmed? Also, I wonder if the comeback to do the Olympics again was both their ideas, because if I were Maia now I would just want to drop out and stop gratifying her brother's need to be dominant. I know this might happen with a lot of pairs but the putdowns by Alex seem excessively harsh, yeah and I agree with the coach or whomever at the side of the rink not intervening...too passive. Always thought Dave Lease seems to be like the "TMZ" of skating.

 

[NanaPat]

Demises, surely

You're so special. Most of us only get one.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Wait! Are you questioning, policing, and judging people whose reaction was that Alex did a terrible thing and should apologize?

I only stated my immediate reactions, and I said that, IMO, everyone has a right to feel however they feel and to express themselves without being aggressively policed when/ if their feelings differ.

I said that I will personally bow out in commenting on what Alex needs to do, which does not negate nor critique you or anyone else voicing how you feel and what you think Alex should do in the aftermath of the posted training clips.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

We may be running out of news and views regarding this. I don't see many minds being changed...
Dave Lease's role here is irrelevant to discussion of anyone's conduct during that session. It's a "shoot the messenger" tactic.

I do not see this revelation/ rink incident as something for fans to 'change each other's minds about.' To each their own perceptions and opinions. Hopefully, the outcome for Alex will be seeking help to modify his behavior and to improve his relationship with his sister. As well, Maia and Alex may both need to rethink their collective and individual feelings and motivations for launching a comeback at this point in time.

I do not see Dave Lease as a 'messenger.' I see him as a malicious gossip who enjoys and revels in spreading or blowing up snarky drama, negativity, conflict, and gotcha moments, regardless of the harmful impact on athletes and their families, fans, and the sport. Any possible future positive outcomes from the publicizing of this clip will not be due to Dave Lease ensuring that the clip was widely disseminated.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I just did an ordinary Google search as well. Google has started throwing in an AI summary at the start of the results.

Sometimes the AI summary is pretty good, sometimes it's laughably bad. It's especially bad at counting. When asked for a figure skater who had skated for 3 different countries, it gave me Deanna Stellato! And when asked for a 5-letter answer for something, it had several suggestions, none of them with 5 letters!

LOL! AFAIK, Deanna only skated for Canada and the U.S.

Vanessa James has skated internationally and domestically for Great Britain, France, and Canada. Plus, Vanessa learned to skate in the Virginia/ D.C. area under coaches Tatiana Malinina & Roman Skorniakov (Ilia's parents). Vanessa competed domestically in the U.S. as a lower level skater before switching to represent Great Britain.

 

[humbaba]

I don't think it was "the streaming being on". If you look how the camera follows them I am sure that was not a webcam. There was someone filming it on purpose which makes me think that it didn't happen for the first time and whoever filmed it wanted to prove something.

After seeing this I'm wondering...how does a person end up filming this from an upper row in the rink and no one notices they are being filmed?

My understanding is the LiveBarn cameras in rinks are mounted to the structure and don't require a person to be there holding or operating them. Someone told me the cameras can be set to respond to motion within their range. If that's accurate, it would explain why the camera follows them.

I'll never get use to the omnipresence of cameras in the world today.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Is it the case that this LiveBarn camera was supposed to be running at all times, even during a private training session?

 

[Diana Delafield]

My understanding is the LiveBarn cameras in rinks are mounted to the structure and don't require a person to be there holding or operating them. Someone told me the cameras can be set to respond to motion within their range. If that's accurate, it would explain why the camera follows them.

I'll never get use to the omnipresence of cameras in the world today.

My multi-sports club has a version of those cameras in all the playing areas -- rink, gyms, pool, racquet courts -- and they do follow motion when there are only a few people in range although if the venue is crowded it pulls back and just films the whole area at once. The film is monitored by the club's security office, though, and if you want to watch the practice you just finished, you have to go to their office and watch it there with a guard present. I don't think anyone could get hold of a copy to broadcast it without the board's authorization.

 

[NanaPat]

Is it the case that this LiveBarn camera was supposed to be running at all times, even during a private training session?

Apparently not. There was an explanation in an earlier post in this thread

P

Post in thread 'Shibsib spat'

Oct 4, 2025

Does anyone know -- is that standard practice that Live Barn is on during private sessions?

Dave attempted some sort of explanation and justification (of himself posting the video). Apparently "a fan" pointed out that the schedule at the rink had changed and the cam had stayed on, implying that normally it would be off for their regular session. Dave also wrote some nonsense on Twitter about "not making any judgements without seeing the entire video" but it's quite ambiguous and, in my opinion, an poor attempt to give meaning to leaking it in the first place.

• pearly

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[Isk]

We may be running out of news and views regarding this. I don't see many minds being changed. I know where I stand.

However, I do think we need to clear up a misconception. This episode became public not because of some nefarious evil-doer skulking in the corner spying on their practice with a video camera. It became public because it was livestreamed on the internet, as is the case for all the events in that rink.

Now, you may complain that it blew up because of Dave Lease, and you may be correct. But it was already out there, and it is likely that Dave Lease was tipped off by one or more of the general skating fandom who had already seen it.

Dave Lease's role here is irrelevant to discussion of anyone's conduct during that session. It's a "shoot the messenger" tactic.

A 10-minute video and a few forum posts are unlikely to change anyone's mind. It takes years and a lot lot of life experience. I don't see anybody downplaying Alex's behaviour and I see some people questioning Dave's behaviour, which seems a pretty balanced reaction. Dave's behaviour is relevant. Judging others comes with a responsibility to them and the public. Less than a year ago Dave himself threw a major tantrum.

 

[TontoK]

What is all this focus on Dave Lease about? Does his dissemination of the video somehow make the content less despicable? How do his motivations factor into what a POS Alex Shibutani is? Why should it matter WHO broke the story? The story is true. You can watch it for yourself.

Some of y'all are starting to sound like the olden days when it was better not to know that a woman was battered at home. That was "family business." If we didn't know there was a problem, then we could pretend there wasn't one.

And worse WAY WORSE is the "we can't know the context" angle, like ANY context would excuse it. Again, it harkens back to the old days. "Maybe she deserved it. She should have known better. She knows how he is." It's just gross. Stop that.

Some appear not as upset about Alex's behavior as you are that his behavior became public and you have to face it head on. For those who are still clinging to the cute-and-loveable image that has been carefully crafted around this brother/sister team, you need to come to grips that perceptions about him are forever changed. And Dave Lease is not responsible for that. Alex Shibutani is responsible for that.

 

[noskates]

Time to move on. The horse is dead and buried.