Shibsib spat

[Mathman]

No excuses. Alex Shibutani is a grown man. People are responsible for their actions and words.

 

[Karoltyna]

So everything is fine, so long as nobody knows about it?

Flipping your final question back to you: How does keeping this a secret help Maia or help deal with abuse in the sport?

You can like Dave Lease or hate him, but he isn't the one abusing Maia Shibutani. That would be her brother Alex.

If they reported him to the police/safesport/whomever is dealing with such cases, you are right. But if they posted the video, then I don't see it as helping. Yes, there is some considerable value in making people aware that certain behaviours aren't ok, but it isn't helpig this particular person.

 

[noskates]

Ummmm - how do any of you know whether this is what that brother and sister do? Maybe that's their relationship. Just posting the question. Is it okay? Not in my frame of reference but making Alex out to be the devil incarnate without knowing all the facts is harmful. These two have been skating together for MANY years and this may just be their nature. To all outward appearances through the years they are very close. I think if Maia was being regularly abused she's definitely old enough to remove herself from the situation. Just always think there's more to the story than a video.

(preparing for the tomatoes that will be thrown at this post!)

 

[Isk]

This is valid point. I really wanted someone, anyone actually, could be the person I detested most at that time, to help me when I was in abusive relationship. By help I mean reach out to me, not post recordings of my partner yelling at me...

Yes, that's the point. Now she might have to protect him from well-meaning (indifferent really) people from SafeSport.
I hope they can find their balance together of separately with or without competitive skating. They seem stressed now.

 

[Weathergal]

The skating fandom is of a certain demographic. It definitely has a different effect in skating compared to something like football or wrestling.

I don't want to get too sidetracked by this, but if you're implying that many skating fans in a "certain demographic" are clutching their pearls because of a few naughty words, that's not the case. Many of us older skating fans are also fans of "rough and tumble" sports like football and are used to that dynamic between players - and even fans LOL. My husband retired from baseball umpiring and my son is currently one, so believe me, I've heard and seen all kinds of crazy stuff, as well as from when my son played competitive baseball. But I don't think is merely "training talk." It's more the attitude and the unrelenting tirade as opposed to two people trading colorful barbs back and forth. Yes, I know she gives it back at one point, but...just not the way I'm reading it at all.

The other thing that hits me - and I'm glad some people have mentioned this - is that whether or not this should be posted, it doesn't mitigate Alex's behavior.

That being said, while in his twisted mind Dave Lease might have had genuine concern for Maia, he knew what he was doing or certainly should have. Did he not learn from the whole debacle about making comments about the airplane crash victims that got leaked from his Patreon audience that his Patreon audience could leak information again?

And this isn't the first time he's shared Livebarn footage. My understanding is Livebarn is essentially an always-on webcam in certain rinks that technically anyone can tap into if they want to see what's going in a rink. I would imagine it's intended for skating and maybe ice hockey parents? Several years back he shared Livebarn footage of Aljona Savchenko and getting cozy with another skater during a practice session. Her husband and father-in-law at the time were incredibly hurt and called out Dave. They're no longer married. So perhaps Dave thinks he's some sort of moral compass and has the "power" to change things he doesn't like. And if he gets attention all the better? I don't know, but I find his behavior disgusting as well.

 

[moonvine]

It was originally posted by Dave Lease to his Patreon and leaked out from there to Twitter/X from what I gathered. It was a recording he made from LiveBarn.

Dave Lease is back?

 

[Isk]

Dave Lease is back?

Not on Youtube apparently. The worst part of it that informative interviews and videos have gone. It was a lot of work and not only his work, Jenny Kirk did some, interviewees invested time and brain power in them. Jenny didn't take anything down when she left.
I very much do not approve of him doing this.

 

[TontoK]

At the rate people are chiming in to cover Alex's backside and desperately try to find excuses that this isn't really that bad because they're siblings or have trained together a long time or didn't know he was being taped... it's just astonishing.

I fully expect that we'll reach the peak stage... "Well, Maia really is a f-ing b-ch so I can understand his point"... within a few pages.

 

[moonvine]

Sorry, my friend @4everchan The problem isn't the person who captured the video (I think it was from a livestream).

The problem is Alex Shibutani. He's the problem.

Maybe Maia will forgive him. That's up to her.

But there are many fans/activists who are even this very minute mapping out plans to attend their competitions and ruin his day. If you're not plugged into the X figure skating world, I don't think you can realize how angry people are.

I don’t think that’s ok either.

 

[moonvine]

I think Lease's intentions are very relevant. He's unlikely to have posted that out of concern for her wellbeing and having that video all over the internet is likely to cause distress to Maia Shibutani. How is this helping her or helping to deal with abuse in the sport?

I think posting that video without her consent is appalling behaviour in its own right.

“Dave Lease” and “appalling behavior” are synonymous.

 

[4everchan]

But there are many fans/activists who are even this very minute mapping out plans to attend their competitions and ruin his day.

I find this terrible. When did people lose their nuance ? It's totally legitimate to feel angry at Alex. However, it is totally wrong to want to "ruin his day" whatever that may mean. Should he have bodyguards with him at this point ? This is CRAZY. Sorry but it is. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Isk]

But there are many fans/activists who are even this very minute mapping out plans to attend their competitions and ruin his day. If you're not plugged into the X figure skating world, I don't think you can realize how angry people are.

They are angry with him for shouting at her, so they'll come to their comp to ruin his day. I can imagine how "happy" she and their family are going to be about it. But in the long run all this publicity might kinda stimulate them to sort this out.

 

[Bord]

They are angry with him for shouting at her, so they'll come to their comp to ruin his day. I can imagine how "happy" she and their family are going to be about it. But in the long run all this publicity might kinda stimulate them to sort this out.

Its hard to understand without seeing the video - is it posted somewhere?

 

[Weathergal]

Its hard to understand without seeing the video - is it posted somewhere?

First post of this thread

 

[TontoK]

I find this terrible. When did people lose their nuance ? It's totally legitimate to feel angry at Alex. However, it is totally wrong to want to "ruin his day" whatever that may mean. Should he have bodyguards with him at this point ? This is CRAZY. Sorry but it is. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm not endorsing this. I shared this to highlight just how angry this segment of fans is about this. Furious doesn't begin to describe it.

But nuance? How much sensitivity does one require to sympathize with a 34-year-old man screaming at his partner/sister in this situation? I don't know, but I must be a Neanderthal because I don't have that much.

I don't wish violence to fall upon him. My generation has a better response, which is to recognize trash when we see it, and walk away. I'm walking away from Alex Shibutani. Because he's trash.

 

[4everchan]

I'm not endorsing this. I shared this to highlight just how angry this segment of fans is about this. Furious doesn't begin to describe it.

But nuance? How much sensitivity does one require to sympathize with a 34-year-old man screaming at his partner/sister in this situation? I don't know, but I must be a Neanderthal because I don't have that much.

I don't wish violence to fall upon him. My generation has a better response, which is to recognize trash when we see it, and walk away. I'm walking away from Alex Shibutani. Because he's trash.

By nuance I don't mean sympathy for Alex. I mean that there is a difference between being upset at violent behavior and becoming violent too .

 

[TontoK]

By nuance I don't mean sympathy for Alex. I mean that there is a difference between being upset at violent behavior and becoming violent too .

Then we've found a point of agreement.

 

[Mathman]

I don't know about ruining anyone's day, but team Shib will have to go to work to win back fan affection. When Alex emails me (I expect this any time now) asking my advice, I will tell him to issue a statement saying that he has already apologized to his sister for blowing his top, that, no, this is totally out of character, I couldn't be prouder of my wonderful sister, my heart -- the devil made me do it -- and then going on with a public apology to the many fans and skating enthusiasts who have supported them and sustained their careers over the years, and he will labor unceasingly to win back their respect, blah, blah.

I'm sure that their are many damage control experts out there who would be glad to offer their services, for a small fee..

 

[Andrina]

What an irony.

Weren't Shibutanis the ones who allegedly called the police after Katsalapov had yelled at Sinitsina (which made them eventually leave Zueva's rink)?

 

[Anna K.]

But in the long run all this publicity might kinda stimulate them to sort this out.

Fingers crossed