Should there be an Exception for Mao? | Page 7 | Golden Skate

Should there be an Exception for Mao?

I say no. If you start bending the rules then you open yourself up to more problems. The world of figure skating has enough to deal with without opening up another round of problems. They should fix the mess they put skating in before they cause bigger scandal.

diamond:p
 
Frau Muller said:
When is Japanese Nationals? I recall that it usually happens around Christmas. It will be very interesting to follow developments there (yet another reason for Brennan to be there this weekend, cooking her brew). For the sake of the 'senior veterans' among the Japanese ladies, I hope that somebody -- anybody -- can beat the tiny tike. That would do a lot towards erasing doubts as we head into Turin. Somehow, though, I think that the tiny tike will prevail. That's when all h*** will break lose.

Japanese Nationals start tomorrow and run through Sunday, Christmas Day. I have no doubt that Mao will win handily, and yes, the uproar will start all over again.

The ones that will be hurt the most by the PR blitz will be the eventual Torino ladies team, who will get scant support from their own press.
 
Mathman said:
Huh? Do I have a point? Did I say that Mao should skate at the Olympics? Did I say anything about big bad Irina winning or losing? Why the sarcasm?

I wasn't being sarcastic. I'm much worse when I'm sarcastic. I just responded to your "Mao's the only skater to beat Irina in two years" with a "yeah, ok, what's your point" kinda thing. Like big deal or something. And since I'm not all in favor of Irina or Cohen winning, I didn't see why it mattered that Mao had beaten Irina.

As Rizzo from Grease would say "Some people are SO touchy":rofl: Ok, just in case, I AM just kidding here.:rofl:
 
diamondqueen said:
I say no. If you start bending the rules then you open yourself up to more problems. The world of figure skating has enough to deal with without opening up another round of problems. They should fix the mess they put skating in before they cause bigger scandal.

diamond:p
Are you adamant about bending the rules. If another case comes up would you hold on to that stance?

Do you think the rules should be changed so this doesn't happen again?

Joe
 
According to this article

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getsp.pl5?sp20051219a4.htm

the Japanese federation received hundreds of emails and telephone calls after the GP final urging them to protest for an exception for Mao.

"A senior JSF official said the Japanese federation has no intention of requesting special treatment for Asada.

"'There are skaters we have helped build up for Turin in the past four years. Whatever the public might say, we will not change our stand,' said Noriko Shirota, a JSF chief technical director in charge of figure skating.

"'We decided to give Mao an opportunity to skate in this year's Grand Prix series as part of our efforts to help her win a medal at next season's world championships in Tokyo,' Shirota said."
 
IMO the age limit should be the same for all Nationals, Worlds,the GP, and the Olympics to avoid this situation. Making an exception for Mao would set a very bad precedent.
 
mzheng said:
(mm, is it OK bash $peedy?)
The moderators are working on their list of who it is OK to bash. So far we have Mr. Cinquanta, Attila the Hun, and Jennifer Anniston. :)
 
Joesitz said:
Are you adamant about bending the rules. If another case comes up would you hold on to that stance?

Do you think the rules should be changed so this doesn't happen again?

Joe

Hi Joe. I'm not sure if you are asking this in general, or asking Diamond specifically. In case your inquiry is general, my "rules are rules" opinion has nothing to do with any of the specific people involved.

As this discussion continues, I think more and more that the ISU age rule is just plain silly (or as Chuckm postulated, political for $peedy) and I hope they do away with it in the proper forum in the future.

DG
 
Mathman said:
According to this article

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getsp.pl5?sp20051219a4.htm

the Japanese federation received hundreds of emails and telephone calls after the GP final urging them to protest for an exception for Mao.

"A senior JSF official said the Japanese federation has no intention of requesting special treatment for Asada.

"'There are skaters we have helped build up for Turin in the past four years. Whatever the public might say, we will not change our stand,' said Noriko Shirota, a JSF chief technical director in charge of figure skating.

"'We decided to give Mao an opportunity to skate in this year's Grand Prix series as part of our efforts to help her win a medal at next season's world championships in Tokyo,' Shirota said."

An excellent stance by the Japanese federation. Bravo! 42
 
Piel said:
IMO the age limit should be the same for all Nationals, Worlds,the GP, and the Olympics to avoid this situation. Making an exception for Mao would set a very bad precedent.

Worlds and Olympics do have the same age limits, and it certainly does make sense to have the Grand Prix, or senior-level competitions in general including the "senior B" events follow the same rules, which perhaps should be slightly younger than is currently the case, at least for ladies singles and ladies in pair teams.

However, when it comes to nationals, which countries' reality should set the rules for all other countries?

Say you have a small country with one or two rinks and a few dozen skaters who can do double jumps and basic flying and combination spins and have decent basic skating. The little kids at that level might have some potential to reach a world-class level at some point if given access to enough ice time and good coaching; the teenagers at that level would be equivalent to recreational skaters in a country like the US or Canada with little hope of reaching a world-class standard. It's logistically feasible for all these skaters to compete in a "national championship" with the levels perhaps divided more by age than by tests.

Because of exceptional talent and/or familial resources to train abroad, there also happen to be three female skaters, or three male skaters, who are at a much higher level -- consistent triple jumps, advanced spins and steps, quite good basic skating. Skater A is 12 years old, Skater B just turned 15, and Skater C is 23.

Would it make more sense for the national federation to say that they must compete at the novice, junior, and senior levels, respectively, even if there is no one else for them to compete against? Should the teenagers at a lower skill level be forced to compete as "juniors" or "seniors" at their national championships even though they have no hope of successfully completing the required elements in junior or senior short programs? Or would it make more sense to combine the age groups for the high-level skaters and let A, B, and C compete against each other?

Which international events their federation could send them to would be limited by their ages, but at least they would have someone to compete against domestically.

Or what if you have a pair team in which the lady is 14 and the man is 22? They can't compete anywhere internationally until the girl gets old enough for seniors, but meanwhile, should they not even be allowed to compete at their own nationals at either junior or senior level, if it's a country with several other pairs at each level, because internationally the girl is too young for seniors and the guy is too old for juniors? If it's a small country with no other pairs or other potential partners, would they not even be allowed to skate exhibitions at their nationals? Could they enter club competitions in their own country (as exhibition skates) or abroad so they could compete against other pairs?
 
GOOD. I'm glad the JSF has no intention right now of getting Mao sent to the Olys. But let's hope they don't cave into the pressure of the nation.

I also agree that among certain skating fans, there will be doubt cast on the winner because Mao wasn't there. But the public won't care, and they're the vast majority.
 
Mathman said:
"'We decided to give Mao an opportunity to skate in this year's Grand Prix series as part of our efforts to help her win a medal at next season's world championships in Tokyo,' Shirota said."[/b]

I call bull***t.

Japan at present has the deepest field of ladies competitors in the world, no one else is even close.

Why select a should-be junior skater without a full arsenal of jumps (yeah she's got a 3ax but no 3tl or 3sl and her lutz is a flutz so that means she effectively only does 3 different jumps?) to win a medal in next year's worlds?

Am I the only one who thinks this doesn't makes sense? I'll believe they won't try to get her into the oly's (especially if she wins Japanese nationals) when the ladies competition in Turin has started. If they send her to 4C's then they're trying to get her in.
 
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As much as I want to say "a rule is a rule" and that it is there for a reason (primarily to keep young skaters from putting too much strain on their bodies), I think in the case of Mao or similar skaters in the future, exceptions should be allowed. The age rule is in place so that skaters keep themselves from injury. But let's face it, Mao skates at a world-class level now, and four years is a long time to keep landing triple-triple combinations and triple axels in order to make it to the next olympics. In Mao's case, this age rule will probably be damaging, not only to her skating but to her body as well. I'm not saying that a 13 year old who skates exceptionally well should be allowed to "break the rules," but when the difference is only a few months and the potential effects of following the rule undermine the purpose of the rule itself, there should be an exception.
 
realistic51 said:
And since I'm not all in favor of Irina or Cohen winning, I didn't see why it mattered that Mao had beaten Irina.
:
Out of curious whom you are all in favor of winning?
 
mzheng said:
Out of curious whom you are all in favor of winning?

Well, I'm in favor of someone winning since the one I'd like to see win might not even make the podium (however I never count that one out):rofl:

Personally, this Olympics is kinda strange for me. I know, for sure, that I don't want to see those who are hyped the most win because I can't stand hype for anyone. So, I guess to answer your question: the one I would like to see win will be the one who is less likely to win.
 
Mafke said:
I call bull***t.

Japan at present has the deepest field of ladies competitors in the world, no one else is even close.

Why select a should-be junior skater without a full arsenal of jumps (yeah she's got a 3ax but no 3tl or 3sl and her lutz is a flutz so that means she effectively only does 3 different jumps?) to win a medal in next year's worlds?

Am I the only one who thinks this doesn't makes sense? I'll believe they won't try to get her into the oly's (especially if she wins Japanese nationals) when the ladies competition in Turin has started. If they send her to 4C's then they're trying to get her in.

What the Japanese have done makes perfect sense. She dominated juniors and to give her the best shot at a Worlds medal in 2007, it would make sense to give her as much exposure to senior level competition the year before Worlds (since this is 2005-2006 season). It gives her an opportunity to build a ranking so she can get GP events next season, and she is able to build a reputation with the judges.
 
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Mafke said:
I call bull***t.

Japan at present has the deepest field of ladies competitors in the world, no one else is even close.

Why select a should-be junior skater without a full arsenal of jumps (yeah she's got a 3ax but no 3tl or 3sl and her lutz is a flutz so that means she effectively only does 3 different jumps?) to win a medal in next year's worlds?

Am I the only one who thinks this doesn't makes sense? I'll believe they won't try to get her into the oly's (especially if she wins Japanese nationals) when the ladies competition in Turin has started. If they send her to 4C's then they're trying to get her in.

The JSF can't send Mao to 4CC because it is an ISU championship event and under the same rule that makes her ineligible for the Olympics, Mao is too young to go to 4CC.
 
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chuckm said:
The JSF can't send Mao to 4CC because it is an ISU championship event and under the same rule that makes her ineligible for the Olympics, Mao is too young to go to 4CC.
I would prefer to say that Mao is eligible for the Olympics but the ISU prohibits her skating in the Olympics.

Joe
 
mzheng said:
Out of curious whom you are all in favor of winning?

sasha cohen... when she is in top form, i don't think anyone else compares... no matter what their jump arsenal (like mao's) is. from purely a viewing standpoint, watching sasha cohen skate is watching something beautiful... but slutskaya and several others like arakawa... somehow their skating seems awkward to watch at times.
 
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