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- Dec 30, 2010
I have to say love Suzuki's program much more than that of Osmond's. There is no way their PCS that close. How could Osmond get that high PCS amazed me. Elene's PCS should be higher in my opinion.
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Skate Canada 2012 Ladies - Long Program (7:45 AM PST/10:45 AM EST)
- Thread starter draqq
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- Jun 16, 2010
I somewhat agree but Suzuki skated earlier due to a not so good short program, so cost herself the hit in marks one naturally takes in PCS from that (unless your name is Patrick Chan of course).
Ladies - Long Program (7:45 AM PST/10:45 AM EST)
What colour medal can you get for a plate of Calamari?
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- Jul 27, 2003
Because Osmond is a better skater than Tuk?
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- Mar 21, 2005
Akiko deserved 8.0's for PCS!
I think she's already gone through that and come out the other side.
Ugh, this judging system is so inconsistent it makes me want to rip my hair out.
First of all, scores from different competitions can't be compared accurately because each event is scored at slightly different baselines - like the olympics where scores were just ridiculously high across the board.
I'm fine with that because it can't be avoided with such a subjective system, but it's really annoying when there's such a difference in judging standards among skaters in the same competition.
Suzuki's Cirque du Soleil is quickly becoming one of my favorite programs of all time, and it's so wonderfully skated. She deserves higher PCS for sure.
I don't care that Osmond has a high absolute PCS value. It bothers me, however, that relative to her number, Suzuki's PCS is not high enough. Scores should at least be consistent and held up to the same standards within a single event.
First of all, scores from different competitions can't be compared accurately because each event is scored at slightly different baselines - like the olympics where scores were just ridiculously high across the board.
I'm fine with that because it can't be avoided with such a subjective system, but it's really annoying when there's such a difference in judging standards among skaters in the same competition.
Suzuki's Cirque du Soleil is quickly becoming one of my favorite programs of all time, and it's so wonderfully skated. She deserves higher PCS for sure.
I don't care that Osmond has a high absolute PCS value. It bothers me, however, that relative to her number, Suzuki's PCS is not high enough. Scores should at least be consistent and held up to the same standards within a single event.
No, Osmond is not a better skater than Tuktamysheva. Liza has two JGP gold medals, a JGPF silver medal, and a JW silver medal. Osmond won no medals in the JGP and her top finish at JW 10th.
In 2011, Tuktamysheva won gold at SC and TEB, with SPs that had 3z+3t and two 6-triple FSs (all clean). She does not flutz or lip. Yet she received lower PCS scores at both events than Kaetlyn did at SC even though Kaetlyn flutzes, she does 3t+3t and not 3z+3t, and of the 5 triples landed in her FS (she fell on the only 3z attempt), only 3 were clean.
Liza is having problems this year due to injury and growth, but she still landed 5 clean triples in her FS at SC.
And I totally agree that if Kaetlyn got 7s in PCS, Akiko should have had 8s. Akiko's PCS were held down and Kaetlyn's inflated to assure the win.
In 2011, Tuktamysheva won gold at SC and TEB, with SPs that had 3z+3t and two 6-triple FSs (all clean). She does not flutz or lip. Yet she received lower PCS scores at both events than Kaetlyn did at SC even though Kaetlyn flutzes, she does 3t+3t and not 3z+3t, and of the 5 triples landed in her FS (she fell on the only 3z attempt), only 3 were clean.
Liza is having problems this year due to injury and growth, but she still landed 5 clean triples in her FS at SC.
And I totally agree that if Kaetlyn got 7s in PCS, Akiko should have had 8s. Akiko's PCS were held down and Kaetlyn's inflated to assure the win.
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Oh my God, Kanako Murakami was WONDERFUL. SHE should have won this event! That was the best performance of her career! She blossomed into that tango dance so naturally. The Bronze medal and only 4th in the LP??? LOL! It was by far the performance of the night. This program is more complex and interesting than Akiko's, although that one is nice, plus Kanako seem to have a bit more fluidity to whole thing today. Technically she was also ahead on the spins (the jumps and footwork were about even).
I saw her 3Loop-2Loop as being totally fine and I've gone back and watched it very carefully now - it was definitely solid. I would have given that combo a +1 GOE but it actually got -1 GOE in addition to the < call. A huge, undeserved loss of points there.
The Salchow was borderline but I would not have called it < , especially because it's just the very top of her toepick that starts landing at the borderline.
The final toeloop actually was underrotated a little bit. She lets her feet get apart a little too early there and it causes her to lose rotational speed and finish some of the rotation of the ice. The thing is, though, that jump was fine in size and had very good outflow on the landing. I would have given it +1 GOE. Underrotated jumps should not be automatically getting -GOE like this.
INSANE judging.
I saw her 3Loop-2Loop as being totally fine and I've gone back and watched it very carefully now - it was definitely solid. I would have given that combo a +1 GOE but it actually got -1 GOE in addition to the < call. A huge, undeserved loss of points there.
The Salchow was borderline but I would not have called it < , especially because it's just the very top of her toepick that starts landing at the borderline.
The final toeloop actually was underrotated a little bit. She lets her feet get apart a little too early there and it causes her to lose rotational speed and finish some of the rotation of the ice. The thing is, though, that jump was fine in size and had very good outflow on the landing. I would have given it +1 GOE. Underrotated jumps should not be automatically getting -GOE like this.
INSANE judging.
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Maybe...maybe not. I hope 4 her she has.
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- Jul 27, 2003
Yes, she is. Osmond skates with more speed and ice coverage; has better posture, lines and extension. She also has better programs, choreogrpahy, musicality and maturity. Her jumps are also just as good. Those are what account for whether a skater is good or not, not how many medals one has. How many medals one has is not what's causing a skater to be good, it's the result of a skater being good. Not having as many medals doesn't necessarily mean you are any less of a skater. We all know winning medals takes a certain combination of skills, mental toughness, luck, and timing. And besides, even if Tuktamysheva WAS the better skater in the past, doesn't mean she still is NOW.
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Platinum
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Osmond has really good basics. She also has really great energy in her performance. I would NOT call the choreography better. First of all, she totally rips off Katarina Witt's Carmen choreography (which is distracting), except she does a far more superficial version and with some of the CoP elements clumsily set to music, as is so often the case these days.
Ladies - Long Program (7:45 AM PST/10:45 AM EST)
Well, there is the problem. Japan only offered the judges Kraft Dinner.
Well, there is the problem. Japan only offered the judges Kraft Dinner.
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Osmond is not unique.Ordinary skater.Ordinary spins.Ordinary jumps. Maturity?We can argue about that - for me, she has a juniorish skating...Also she tends to fall in her programs, so they are not clean. How on Earth could anybody say that she is in 1 league with such talents as Gracie, Tuk and so on???? She is just lucky. That's all.
They are not. She recieved and edge call to both her 3Lz and 3F. So no, the jumps are not just as good.
I was totally expecting to see Kaetlyn having a great clean fp when I saw that she'd won, and headlines were saying she "stole the show." Well, the headlines were wrong. More like, the judges helped her "steal" the gold. And I am not blaming Kaetlyn or tearing her down. I thought she was wonderful in the sp and I saw nothing wrong with her 2nd place finish there. She has a lot of spunk and confidence, and she did perform well in the fp aside from her couple of mistakes. But she was over-scored on PCS in comparison to Akiko. I also feel that Akiko and Kanako were kept down a bit more than they should have been in the sp. Agree with the person above who felt Kanako performed beautifully in both sp and fp. Certainly, Kanako should have at least placed third in the fp. And I feel with Kaetlyn's errors in the fp (and especially the fact that the Carmen music is not really well interpreted by her) that she should have at most won silver, and arguably bronze.
At SA, Christina Gao was very much underscored in the sp. Gao ended up with a total of 174+ overall, which is behind what Kaetlyn scored at SC. Gao skated two beautiful mature programs and if she had skated those programs at SC, Gao clearly should have had scores higher than Kaetlyn. Even at SA, Gao's marks should have been closer to Ashley's. I think this demonstrates the politics that goes into the scoring. Gao was kept down in the sp because she didn't have a lot of rep with the judges, but with her equally stellar performance in the fp (coupled with Sotnikova's mistakes), the judges could not deny Gao second place. Ashley had to perform a clean fp to beat Gao, and she did. I do think the judges were kind to Ashley in the sp where she had a slight two foot on one jump, but her 60+ score was not unreasonable. Gao definitely should not have been as far behind in the sp because she landed a 3/3 in the sp, unlike Ashley. Obviously, Gao and Wagner are both from the U.S., but Sotnikova and Alena were favored to perform better than Gao.
It is difficult for this sport to gain wide appeal with inconsistencies in the judging that are so obvious. Of course, this is nothing new for figure skating. At least now, they seem to have stopped giving Chan gifts when he makes mistakes.
At SA, Christina Gao was very much underscored in the sp. Gao ended up with a total of 174+ overall, which is behind what Kaetlyn scored at SC. Gao skated two beautiful mature programs and if she had skated those programs at SC, Gao clearly should have had scores higher than Kaetlyn. Even at SA, Gao's marks should have been closer to Ashley's. I think this demonstrates the politics that goes into the scoring. Gao was kept down in the sp because she didn't have a lot of rep with the judges, but with her equally stellar performance in the fp (coupled with Sotnikova's mistakes), the judges could not deny Gao second place. Ashley had to perform a clean fp to beat Gao, and she did. I do think the judges were kind to Ashley in the sp where she had a slight two foot on one jump, but her 60+ score was not unreasonable. Gao definitely should not have been as far behind in the sp because she landed a 3/3 in the sp, unlike Ashley. Obviously, Gao and Wagner are both from the U.S., but Sotnikova and Alena were favored to perform better than Gao.
It is difficult for this sport to gain wide appeal with inconsistencies in the judging that are so obvious. Of course, this is nothing new for figure skating. At least now, they seem to have stopped giving Chan gifts when he makes mistakes.
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Mr. P watched both programs at the coffee shop tonight on YouTube. He was utterly confused when I told him who won on PCS. He kept going on about how much he loved Akiko's arms in the program, while he described Kaetlyn's program was "full of arm flailing."
Just one man's opinion.
ETA: Akiko did win the pcs, but rather he was puzzled they got nearly the same pcs scores.
Just one man's opinion.
ETA: Akiko did win the pcs, but rather he was puzzled they got nearly the same pcs scores.
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