Skate Canada 2012 Mens - Long Program (4:10PM PST/7:10PM EST)

[Tonichelle]

Michelle and Kurt had great performances when it counted...

...except at the Olympics... when to them it counted most.

What made Kurt hit legend status was what he did after it was all said and done. Yeah the world titles made it so that he'd be remembered, but how he advanced the sport and has been an ambassador for it is why he'll be up there in teh skategod realm. He didn't rest on what "worked" in the pros, he continued to push skating and himself.

 

[claphappy]

I think Oda has some of the strongest skating skills, jumps and general ability - I actually think he's top 3 in Japan in this regard (I don't have any problems with his posture - I like him better than Hanyu's gawky, floppy, unhinged style). Oda's problem is that he chooses music that people or judges simply can't get behind even when has solid choreography/performances - his LP music is not meant for skating to. He should scrap that fast!!!

I agree with everything your saying, except for the part about his music. What is it about his LP music that you find so ill fit for skating?

 

[jan]

I loved his program this evening. Very different and reminded me of a program he did did years ago. I loved how it highlighted his lightness and speed.

I agree with everything your saying, except for the part about his music. What is it about his LP music that you find so ill fit for skating?

 

[bekalc]

...except at the Olympics... when to them it counted most.

What made Kurt hit legend status was what he did after it was all said and done. Yeah the world titles made it so that he'd be remembered, but how he advanced the sport and has been an ambassador for it is why he'll be up there in teh skategod realm. He didn't rest on what "worked" in the pros, he continued to push skating and himself.

Well yes but there's no terms like Kurtinflation and Kwaninflation out there. What was going on last year when Daisuke couldn't even win the free program when he skated much cleaner than Patrick was just incredibly frustrating to watch.. (And funnily enough I didn't have so much issue with Patrick winning overall.....It was the no bone being thrown) It was like why even bother watching now. Something had to give. And I think the booos at Worlds really solidified that one..

It was unfair because Chans' incredible. But its never great when the preception is this is a skater who wins unfairly (his first worlds win was totally fair though)

 

[MarkusNJ]

Love Javiers program!!!!

LOVE Ross's as well....watch out for nationals.....

 

[herios]

Also, will Javier be going for three quads, or did he had the 4T later because of the 3T mistake? Because three quads would be awesome and a way to truly raise the bar.

IP
Yes, he will. Tracy said before he started his LP , that he has planned 3 quads, 2 toes and one salchow. I said to myself, that would be something to see...Seeing how well he landed all his quads, except the one he slipped of his take-off edge, i think he had actually good chances to do so, he looks very well in the air.
And i agree, the bar will be raised for sure. Good for the sport.

 

[draqq]

Where Patrick lost is mainly in the combinations. He didn't have a triple toe at the end of the quad nor a triple salchow at the end of the single loop sequence (just a double salchow). I think he was going for a 3Lz+3T but couldn't tack it on because of the step-out. All together, that's about 10+ points lost in base value. Couple that with the other mistakes and it just doesn't leave a powerful impression.

While I think that Patrick's overall PCS should have been in the 8.8 range, it wouldn't have made much difference. Fernandez isn't the best with certain areas of footwork (his Lvl4 step sequence hides some of his flaws well), but he has plenty of character, outward projection, and facial expression, all of which I think both Nobunari Oda and Patrick Chan lack by comparison. That said, Chan is getting better at feeling the music through his body rather than just his footwork; sometimes he just needs to let the music breathe and let go.

 

[Tigger]

When I hear Oda's music I think of an army of marching brooms carrying pails of water.

Glad I wasn't the only one thinking that. Also I was wondering where his Royal Blue Wizard's hat was, but it would also need Mickey Mouse ears to be authentic.

Seriously though, Nobu was the best I've seen of him in a very long time and wonderful to see.

Patrick, swallow your pride and go back to what got you to the top. I also think he's lost muscle and not a good thing that if you're trying to do the big jumps.

JAVI!!! I was a fan of his a long time ago and it's beyond fantastic to see how far he's come the last two years after escaping Morozov's camp. This is History IIRC? First Spainard to win a major Grand Prix event? Regardless, Congratulations to Javi on one heck of an achievement!!

On a shallow note...Love that mustard yellow on him. Really works w/his complexion.

 

[chuckm]

I'm just glad Chan didn't get all 9s in his PCS just to assure a win he didn't deserve. Javier did deserve to win---he didn't let a mistake on his first jump derail his program, and it was loaded with technical content. And while he doesn't have Chan's fancy footwork, Javi does capture his audience in a way that Chan doesn't.

Chan is gravely mistaken when he believes he no longer has need of a technical coach!

 

[BlackAxel]

Overall, I agree with the placements and I am happy that Javier was able to receive his first grand-prix gold medal ... I was never a huge fan of Patrick but I have to admit that actually like Patrick's new LP. I dont know if this positive change is due to his new coach or the different choreographers that have choreographed his programs this season (other than Lori Nichols). But I noticed that Chan was emoting and listening more to the music and at some points I felt really moved. In all, I think he is moving in the right direction but of course, Patrick needs more mileage with his programs and he needs to gain more consistency with his jumps.

 

[A.H.Black]

Does anyone wonder how long Fernandez can do 3 quads before injuries take their toll?

 

[Bluebonnet]

Patrick has been investing in PCS but his improvements are not being recognized and rewarded.

That's why Patrick was wrong to invest in PCS and take easy on TES. Over 10 points less in total score than Fernandez!!! They were all lost from TES! I don't know if this was enough to serve as a wake-up-call?

So happy for Fernandez!!! Way to go, Javier!

 

[herios]

Does anyone wonder how long Fernandez can do 3 quads before injuries take their toll?

No, because we are not Oracles. On another hand, i don't think it matters that much how many you are ncluding in your programs, if you try to train it, your body takes the beating.
Goebel for a few years also had included 3 quads in his LP. I can't recall his injuries history, but he surelynot more injured through his active years than others.
...Just looked it up, as i was curious. Goebel started to have injuries during the 2004 Nationals.

It was basically after a few years of hard pounding.

 

[chuckm]

Didn't Chan announce before the start of the season that he was going to have 3 different quads in his programs? He just hasn't been able to land them.

 

[rain]

That's why Patrick was wrong to invest in PCS and take easy on TES. Over 10 points less in total score than Fernandez!!! They were all lost from TES! I don't know if this was enough to serve as a wake-up-call?

With the changes Chan has made to his team, I understand why people are questioning and scrutinizing his performances, however, I think it's way to early to be pushing the panic button. Chan traditionally does not do well in the early season, so this is pretty much par for the course. I think a good part of it is that he always challenges himself so much with difficult programs that it takes awhile for them to gel. This season, he is trying to incorporate more musical involvement (per his interviews), so getting that balance between that and the technical will take time. His performance here was already considerably better than the Japan open, which was a meltdown. I do think he obviously needs to work his triple axel, which has always been his most problematic jump.

Just have to say that I was charmed by Fernandez's skate. I love this choreography and think he makes an adorable Chaplin. I hope he can put together a better rest of the season than he managed last year, because I'd love to see this program evolve to even greater heights — clearly stamina is still an issue that needs some work, for example.

 

[Art&Sport]

I loved Denis' program and Ross'. I enjoyed Javi's sp more than his fp (but his fp works for him). I thought Javi's fp of last season could have been a masterpiece had he skated it with more artistry and endurance. Seems as if Orser decided to take a different kind of route for Javi's fp this season (Javi has an opportunity to rest strategically, and also to learn how to project a character, which should help improve his presentation skills).

I'm really sorry for Denis, because I think it is so wonderful the idea to have his sp segue into his fp using the same theme and cuts from the same music soundtrack. Denis IMO could be on the podium with a cleanly skated sp and fp -- both are so well constructed and well-choreographed. The judges gave Denis the benefit of the doubt in the sp, but fairly dropped him in the fp with his tech mistakes. As I said in sp thread, I think Gachinski should have been behind Ross in sp (and I think Ross overall was lowballed in the short in comparison with Ten, Amodio and Gachinski -- at the least, Ross should have been ahead of Gachinski in the sp). Great to see Ross skate a beautiful program after the pop on the opening quad.

No offense to his fans, but I simply do not care for Nobunari Oda's skating and lack of personality on the ice. Yes, he has soft knees and amazing ice coverage, and deep edges (but not deeper than Chan's, IMO). Oda has had a lot of help with choreography and costumes to help him project and develop more artistry, but to me he simply is not there. Oda is constantly over-rated on PCS, simply because of his amazing jumping ability and ice coverage. I found Oda's fp music grating, and the program just did not come together for me. To me both Oda and Amodio have a jerky way of setting up for jumps that I find completely distracting and disruptive to the flow of their programs. Amodio does have a better fp this year. I can see why Amodio and Ten are rated highly in PCS, but I feel that Oda is over-rated in PCS, especially PE, CH, and IN. I think Oda's sp works better than his fp.

I enjoyed Chan's sp more than his fp too, but I think Chan's focus on improving his artistry is working for him. He's probably relieved to take silver for a change.

I would love to see a clip of the awards ceremony if anyone has a link. Bravo, Javi!

 

[aemeraldrainc]

Does anyone know if Nobu has a facebook profile? Would love to congratulate him on there.

 

[Bluebonnet]

Just have to say that I was charmed by Fernandez's skate. I love this choreography and think he makes an adorable Chaplin.

Me too. I think Fernandez has improved his artistic abilities a lot from last year.

 

[herios]

Does anyone know if Nobu has a facebook profile? Would love to congratulate him on there.

Yes:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Nobunari-Oda/157915977108

 

[aemeraldrainc]

Yes:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Nobunari-Oda/157915977108

THANK YOU! I tried searching, but I only came up with fan pages.