Skaters you Felt Stayed Past their Prime

[hockeyfan228]

Witt was beyond her competitive prime in 1994, but wanted to perform live in front of her parents. Since she earned her place on the German Olympic team, there was no reason for her not to skate. Her two gold medals are more widely discussed than her placement in Lillehammer.

 

[clairecloutier]

Skaters who definitely stayed past their prime:

Elena Liashenko
Hard to say if she ever really had a "prime," but if she did, it is well behind her.

Elena Sokolova
She is now 3 years past her brief peak in 2003. And in all the years before and since 2003, she has been a mediocre and disappointing skater. Time to move on.

Maria Butyrskaya
When she retired in 2002, it was past time. She definitely peaked in 1999.

Angela Nikodinov
I love Angela, but she probably should have retired after failing to make the 2002 Olympic team.

Michael Weiss
In the last few years, he has obviously been hanging in just for the money IMO.

Tim Goebel
He probably should have retired after the season when his whole body got out of alignment (or whatever that situation was).

Takeshi Honda
His season this year was nothing short of disastrous. Sometimes you just have to know when to stop.

Sasha Cohen
I know this is going to be controversial, but I really think Sasha should retire now and focus on show skating. It has become crystal clear (to me at least) that Sasha simply does not have what it takes to win Olympics or Worlds. This year, she had the best opportunities she'll probably ever have to win both those events, and she still couldn't do it. Meanwhile, all the drama surrounding her and her mental state is IMO becoming distracting and annoying. I think she should cut her losses and focus on what she does best--which is beautiful, artistic skating. I am ready for The Sasha Show to end, at least on the competitive circuit.

Petrova & Tikhonov
There was no improvement in their skating after they won Worlds in 2000. Why continue for six more years?

Zagorska & Siudek
Same as above (except their peak of course was winning bronze at Worlds, not gold).

Scott & Dulebohn
I really don't know why they kept going as long as they did.


Skaters who might *appear* to have stayed too long, but IMO did not:

Michelle Kwan
There are many who argue that she should have retired after 2002. And there is little doubt that Michelle hit her actual athletic peak well before that, probably in the late 90s. However, I still am glad that Michelle carried on from 2003 to 2006. Because the fact is, even if she was no longer at her peak, she was still one of the overall best skaters in the world, an assertion borne out by her competitive record during that period: gold, bronze, and pewter placements at Worlds in 2003-2005 (not to mention three national titles). And many beautiful performances besides. I personally am very glad she stayed in for that time.

Brian Boitano
In terms of results, his 1994 season was definitely disappointing, and he was clearly a bit past his peak athletically at that point. However--I loved his programs that year. His Appalachian Spring long program, to me, was an artistic high point. I still enjoyed his performances, and he acquitted himself respectably at the Olympics, even though he didn't medal. I'm glad he came back that year.

Todd Eldredge
The thing that impresses me about Todd is that he kept his skills strong throughout his whole career, right up to the end. I was glad he competed as long as he did. Todd just happened to have the misfortune to skate concurrently with three men who IMO are among the most brilliant and/or innately talented in the history of the sport: Kulik, Yagudin, and Plushenko. Todd was extremely talented, polished, and well-trained, but didn't quite have that extra level of brilliance that the 3 Russians brought to the table. Nonetheless Todd was a wonderful skater--always solid, reliable, and enjoyable to watch. I'm glad he stayed in as long as he did. At no point did he embarrass himself or the U.S. team. (This in my mind is always an indication of having stayed in too long. For example, Sokolova's performance at the Olympics this year is what I would consider simply embarassing.)

Lu Chen
Some might argue that she should have retired after 1996. And clearly, 1995 and 1996 were her best years. However, if she had retired then, we would have been deprived of her beautiful performances in Nagano. Her Olympic bronze medal in 1998 was inspiring.

 

[attyfan]

Suppose that Michelle had retired after Worlds '03. Was there another American who could place high enough in Dortmund, when combined with Sasha, to secure 3 spots for US ladies in Moscow -- and repeat the feat to secure 3 for Torino? Or, if the top two at Dortmund were Sasha and Jenny (who came in something like 17th), so we only got 2 ladies to Moscow -- and couldn't secure 3 spots for Torino either -- would everyone be condemning Michelle for her "selfishness" in retiring?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think you are all confusing eligible with amateur skating. amateur no longer exists. And eligible skaters make good money by just showing up!! That is good reason for hanging around.

 

[JonnyCoop]

Personally, I think it's a bit silly to include skaters in this thread WHO HAVE NOT RETIRED YET, or at least ARE STILL IN THE ELIGIBLE RANKS, whatever those may be these days. This thread by very nature involves a lot of hindsight; the skaters still unretired/eligible could still make some sort of comeback, or "pull a Rudy" or something.

re. Sarah: Personally, I gave her a lot of credit for coming back in the 02-03 season, after the last 2 OGM's pulled a "take the money and run" routine after not having been around very long. No, she wasn't in OGM form, but IMO, artistically, she had a lot of interesting stuff going on in her programs that we hadn't seen previously. I just wish she'd kept it up another season or two.

Goebel is an odd case, because I'm sure I'm not the only one who is mystified by the fact he just couldn't seem to come back at all from his "skate issues" which derailed him. I mean, this was not a Major Injury situation like it was with Stojko or Urmanov. Tho I was never a huge fan of his, I did think it was sad to see how he skated at the last Nats, especially when he started out his long program looking so confident.

As for Angela -- well, if she had a crystal ball that would have told her all the stuff she's had to deal with in the last 4 years (injuries wiping out her entire season, the tragedy in Portland), she probably WOULD have retired after the 02 Nats. But at the time, especially given how well she skated at the 01 Worlds, why not stick around? Plus -- she DID win Skate America in '04, which was certainly a career highlight.

and regarding the skaters who seem to have been placed on this list due to their comebacks in '94 and subsequent less than enthralling results: I don't personally consider it to be the same thing to COME BACK after 6 years and not do too well, as it is TO STAY AROUND years and years after your best results. No, Witt never had a chance, and even a diva such as herself knew it, but Lillehammer for her was not about medals. And there was really no reason to belive that Boitano couldn't medal.

 

[pohatta]

I think Moniotte & Lavanchy should get a mention. They almost won the 1995 Europeans (Rahkamo & Kokko won by one vote) but when Anissina & Peizerat overtook them as the top French pair they really lost it. Didn't they finish outside Top 10 in their final Worlds?

 

[anything_for_skating]

I hope you meant 2003. Past her prime or not, she won the world championship that year.

MM

In 2002? Nope, Ira won.

 

[JonnyCoop]

I think Moniotte & Lavanchy should get a mention. They almost won the 1995 Europeans (Rahkamo & Kokko won by one vote) but when Anissina & Peizerat overtook them as the top French pair they really lost it. Didn't they finish outside Top 10 in their final Worlds?

I have always had my doubts that M & L's drop in the standings had anything to do with their actual skating; I think that was an Ice Dance Politics thing. There seemed to be a trend that went on for many years, that if a couple had to withdraw from Worlds due to injury, they were automatically knocked down a place or two the following season (like Bourne & Kraatz in 01 and a few other couples.) Had Anissina & Peizerat not followed in their wake and picked up the slack while they were gone, M & L might have maintained their ranking, or close to it. However, since a lot of pre-judging was going on in Dance at that time (remember this was around the time of the Nagano Bloc Judging scandal), by the time M & L came back, other couples were then placed ahead of them. I find it hard to believe that their skating skills could have possibly disinegrated THAT much for them to fall all the way down to 11th place after having been on the podium twice. And of course we have the French Federation factor here, too -- they were pretty much playing politics and since only the Russians were allowed to have more than one couple in the World top 5, Moniotte & Lavanchy were pretty much the sacrificial lambs for France; they couldn't make a push for both them and Anissina & Peizerat at the same time; they had to choose one or the other, and Moniotte & Lavanchy made it easier on them by getting injured.

Naturally, this is all speculation on my part, but this was one of many Dance judging/placing incidents taking place during the 90s that I always found more than a little odd and extremely suspect....:scowl:

 

[cianni]

And

Can we ask this question another way? What Skaters stayed Past their Prime or Longer then I wanted them to? Its not up to me to decide when another has reached their prime. Some of the named skaters won Medals long after we decided they were past their prime. I may not care for a skater but that doesnt mean their prime is on my schedule , its on theirs. Seems their prime means I want them to retire. I say let them skate till they decide to stop. Surprises happen.

 

[Vash01]

Skaters who definitely stayed past their prime:


Petrova & Tikhonov
There was no improvement in their skating after they won Worlds in 2000. Why continue for six more years?

.

Maria Petrova struggled with an ankle injury for a couple of years after winning the 2000 worlds. After the 2002 season they made many improvements in their skating. They replaced the throw triple toe with a throw triple loop, which has a higher value. They added sbs triple salchows in order to be competitive. They improved their speed also. They were a better pair in 2004-2006 than in 2000. What hurt their placements was COP where the stylistic pairs skating (posture, lines, unison) did not have that much value. They clearly enjoyed skating and competing and improving, even though their best finish after 2000 was 'only' a world silver (2005). IMO that is a good enough reason to stick around for so many years.

Vash

 

[soogar]

I have always had my doubts that M & L's drop in the standings had anything to do with their actual skating; I think that was an Ice Dance Politics thing.

Or maybe the reason why M&L were so high in the first place was because of politics.

 

[MKFSfan]

This is such a controversial thread because we all have different opinions on how an athlete chooses to go out. Maybe one wants to go out on top before others top them, or injuries take their toll, and maybe others stay in because they love to compete and skate regardless of final placings. When all is said and done, what will be remembered about Michelle is her longetivity and her many wins. If Michelle does indeed leave eligible skating now, 50 years from now surely noone will be saying,"Well, Michelle missed the podium in her last international competition..." they'll be talking about a skater with an amazing decade of staying at the top. Maybe today, some fans think that and dismiss her resume, but really, I think any athlete has the right to determine their destiny. If Sasha retires too, well, a medal at 3 of the biggest events of the season is pretty amazing, regardless of expectations.

IMO, the only way skaters stay around too long is if their injuries prevent them from being a shell of their selves. Unfortunately, I do think that of Elvis and seeing him struggle was heartbreaking for me. I don't think a skater still on the scene when others are challenging to pass them counts, because as many have pointed out, a truly great skater will still give memorable performances, regardless of where they place (for example: Lu Chen Olympics 1998, Michelle 2004 Nationals and her record tying 2005 Nats.)

 

[slutskayafan21]

Maria Petrova struggled with an ankle injury for a couple of years after winning the 2000 worlds. After the 2002 season they made many improvements in their skating. They replaced the throw triple toe with a throw triple loop, which has a higher value. They added sbs triple salchows in order to be competitive. They improved their speed also. They were a better pair in 2004-2006 than in 2000. What hurt their placements was COP where the stylistic pairs skating (posture, lines, unison) did not have that much value. They clearly enjoyed skating and competing and improving, even though their best finish after 2000 was 'only' a world silver (2005). IMO that is a good enough reason to stick around for so many years.

Vash

Petrova and Tikhonov were actually a more serious contender in the quadrennial from the 02-03 season through until the 05-06 season, then they were in the 00-01 and 01-02 seasons. Even though they did not win another World title and were not favored to win any one year, they were considered a contender to the gold atleast 3 of the year(2004, 2005, 2006)something they certainly were not in either 01 and 02. While there were enough contenders they could easily be bumped right off the podium still, they knew if they skated cleanly they very very likely would win a medal of some color, which was also different then the 00-01 and 01-02 seasons where even with clean performances they could easily be 4th-6th. They were a real contender for an Oly medal in 06, not the gold which Totmianina/Marinin really had in the bag, but a silver or bronze, with alot of tough competition, but still a valid chance; where in 02 they went in really with no chance at all, in fact with 2 perfect performances they still were a distant 6th. So all in all their competitive situation in the 02-03 until the 05-06 quadrennial was much improved from the 2 season after their 00 World title; so I think they made a great decision to continue. It must have been nice going into competitions knowing you were atleast more of a player then they did the two seasons after their World title were Berezhnaya/Sikharlidze, Sale/Pelletier, and Shen/Zhou were all 110% out of their reach.

 

[Pixie Cut]

IMO, the only way skaters stay around too long is if their injuries prevent them from being a shell of their selves. Unfortunately, I do think that of Elvis and seeing him struggle was heartbreaking for me.

Had Elvis Stojko won the gold medal in Nagano, it's very possible he may have turned pro. But with the injury, he had something to prove. Unfortunately, he was never really able to prove it. He did have some redemption when he won the silver medal at Worlds in 2000, but the following season it was injury after injury. Despite a nice job at 2002 Canadians, the SLC Olympics were not good. And going back and using his 1994 music was a horrible decision. I can still watch that 94 Olympic performance and get chills. Watching him skate to the same music eight years later just made me shudder.

Just because someone won medals doesn't mean they didn't overstay. From 1992-1998, Elvis Stojko was truly great. After that, much of the time it made you uncomfortable to watch him skate. Granted, he did win a few medals during that time. He kept waiting for this moment when the chip would fall off his shoulder, but it never did.

 

[sk8addict]

won?

ITA. Besides worlds in 2003 Michelle won a couple more United States Championships also.

OK, I have to say that after 2003 she was given the Nationals. The skating was not inspired nor difficult & the 6.0s just kept coming in.

 

[Pixie Cut]

OK, I have to say that after 2003 she was given the Nationals. The skating was not inspired nor difficult & the 6.0s just kept coming in.

Although I think she totally deserved her 2004 and 2005 U.S. titles, I would agree the skating was certainly not inspired.

 

[Mathman]

I thought her Nationals performance of Tosca in 2004 was outstanding. Plus, the way the emotions of the evening were building up and amid all the whispers that maybe this was the year that she would falter at last, to me it was a satisfying and well-deserved win.

As to whether Michelle received a "gift" in either 2004 or 2005, it's a competition. The 6.0s, etc., are just place-holders for the convenience of the judges. You don't have to be perfect to win the title (as was born out in spades at Torino), just better than the other guys.

Nobody else stepped up to Michelle's challenge, end of competition.

 

[attyfan]

OK, I have to say that after 2003 she was given the Nationals. The skating was not inspired nor difficult & the 6.0s just kept coming in.

Considering that, at 2004 Nats, Sasha got a 6.0 with a fall, I don't see how you can say that Michelle "was given the Nationals." Sasha's marks indicated to me that the judges would have loved to give her the gold, if she could only hold it together. The fact that Sasha couldn't do it is not the fault of the judges nor of MK.

 

[slutskayafan21]

I have always had my doubts that M & L's drop in the standings had anything to do with their actual skating; I think that was an Ice Dance Politics thing. There seemed to be a trend that went on for many years, that if a couple had to withdraw from Worlds due to injury, they were automatically knocked down a place or two the following season (like Bourne & Kraatz in 01 and a few other couples.) Had Anissina & Peizerat not followed in their wake and picked up the slack while they were gone, M & L might have maintained their ranking, or close to it. However, since a lot of pre-judging was going on in Dance at that time (remember this was around the time of the Nagano Bloc Judging scandal), by the time M & L came back, other couples were then placed ahead of them. I find it hard to believe that their skating skills could have possibly disinegrated THAT much for them to fall all the way down to 11th place after having been on the podium twice. And of course we have the French Federation factor here, too -- they were pretty much playing politics and since only the Russians were allowed to have more than one couple in the World top 5, Moniotte & Lavanchy were pretty much the sacrificial lambs for France; they couldn't make a push for both them and Anissina & Peizerat at the same time; they had to choose one or the other, and Moniotte & Lavanchy made it easier on them by getting injured.

Naturally, this is all speculation on my part, but this was one of many Dance judging/placing incidents taking place during the 90s that I always found more than a little odd and extremely suspect....:scowl:

Have you ever read Sophie Moniotte's book?

 

[Pixie Cut]

Have you ever read Sophie Moniotte's book?

Isn't it titled something like Blades of Rage?

I find her anger kind of ridiculous. The two World medals they won were gifts as far as I could see. But I suppose she came to believe they were actually good. What a surprise to find out where they actually deserved to be placed. :yes: