Slow Motion Jump Editing (AKA: Sam's Jump-a-ma-tron)

[StitchMonkey]

While we are on the single axel subject.

Is that a one foot?

 

[sabinfire]

I'm far from an expert but some folks were saying this single axle was pretty good when the episode came out.

I think it's a good single axel but it barely gets off the ground, it's such a small jump. Not that one revolution would require a huge jump...

Just look at Han Yan's 'accidentally on purpose' single axel, and the height he gets on it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZU4OWDCEUY&t=127 (2:09 mark)

It's actually a really beautiful jump if it weren't such a massive mistake.

 

[karne]

While we are on the single axel subject.

Is that a one foot?

Um, can we please talk for a moment about how this is Max doing a single Axel in the opposite direction to natural?! Awesome!

 

[sabinfire]

MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAX

4S-3T from US Nationals pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease

Haven't been feeling particularly inspired lately to make videos, so I am scrolling back through requests and pushing through to put something new together. Hopefully I am doing Max fans justice with this one from 2015 U.S. Nationals:

Max Aaron Jumpamatron (up to 720p HD)

(Gotta love the multiple camera angles here... so much better than NBC's swill... )

 

[ice coverage]

Um, can we please talk for a moment about how this is Max doing a single Axel in the opposite direction to natural?! Awesome!

Wow, Max just keeps the surprises coming. Thx, karne.

 

[sunnystars]

can you guys do a "jump-a-ma-tron" video on V/T's SBS jumps? specifically from their SP last year would be nice :yay:

 

[satine]

Well, I can see the argument both ways. I'd have given it an "e" but I think we established a few pages ago that I am a total hardass.

I don't think you're being a hardass on this one karne I'd definitely give it an e call myself if I were judging.

 

[ice coverage]

Haven't been feeling particularly inspired lately to make videos, so I am scrolling back through requests and pushing through to put something new together. Hopefully I am doing Max fans justice with this one from 2015 U.S. Nationals:

Max Aaron Jumpamatron (up to 720p HD)

(Gotta love the multiple camera angles here... so much better than NBC's swill... )

Thank you, sabinfire .

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I made a jumpamatron of single axels and accidentally erased it and then realized it had failed during the upload to YouTube. It had Chasity , her cat and Han Yan all set to "I believe I can fly" So sad hwell:

 

[sabinfire]

Second stab at a Spinamatron video...

Zhenya seems like a good pick at the moment. Haven't yet gotten my hands on any high-quality footage with good camera angles from JWC to be used for this sort of thing (ISU stream unfortunately won't cut it), so using 2015 Russian Nationals. She received good/high GOE on all spins here.

Evgenia Medvedeva Spinamatron (up to 720p HD)

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I'm trying to decide if I should discontinue my "remix" series. I spent so much time editing this and no one watches it. I was planning on doing a FS wrap up tonight or ask for favorite moments in a thread again but the jumpamatron and Spinamatron seem to be of more interest to people. I'm digging the Spinamatron a lot. Maybe I'll do one for Elizabet Tursynbaeva. Or maybe a FS Spinamatron collage of everyone. Hmm....what to do?

Good job on Zhenya's. Did you see any of the footage of her and Sima goofing off at the presser yesterday? Movie gold I tell ya.

 

[sabinfire]

I spent so much time editing this and no one watches it. I was planning on doing a FS wrap up tonight or ask for favorite moments in a thread again but the jumpamatron and Spinamatron seem to be of more interest to people. I'm digging the Spinamatron a lot.

Me too. Spinamatron is a lot of fun to do. Thinking of just editing videos that I really want to do out of my own interests. Believe it or not, I actually enjoy watching most of my own videos I've posted in here. I've probably watched the Yulia Spinamatron video 20+ times (usually my own original video, not via YouTube).

But yes, I agree with you Sam... nothing more disappointing than spending an hour (or longer) editing a video, and only a handful of folks actually end up watching it... It's a delicate balance between finding content that people will be interested in watching, and selecting skaters/performances that you actually feel passionate about to help fuel the inspiration in making the videos...

Good job on Zhenya's. Did you see any of the footage of her and Sima goofing off at the presser yesterday? Movie gold I tell ya.

Thanks! I actually did see some of the footage and would probably make a hilarious video... I wish I had access to HQ video from JWC right now... the ISU stream caps I've seen aren't really HD and seem a little skippy to me, which doesn't make for a great slow-motion clip.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

There is a copy of Zhenia's FS in HD on her fan page from JWC. You can post right to the wall there with a VK account and she comments there. Maybe you should post your Spinamatron there. It might seem a tad stalkerish but I bet she would enjoy it.

I really don't care if people watch my videos or not but I would be lying if I said I wasn't making them with other people in mind. When I make a video it's not to show the tricks and highlights but instead I aim to capture the moment a skater is creating. That's why my videos feature more skating and emotion than just the jumps and spins. That said..I spent five hours plus working on that last one timing up and trimming the music to fit the images I selected(even longer on the 4cc video). It's fun and helping me to learn the editor but I'm not sure if its worth it. I guess the urge to edit comes and goes.

The jumpamatron is different because I think people are actually being educated instead of just making blank accusations toward skaters and judges. Plus it's fun to celebrate the good jumps and spin this sport has to offer.

 

[sabinfire]

There is a copy of Zhenia's FS in HD on her fan page from JWC. You can post right to the wall there with a VK account and she comments there. Maybe you should post your Spinamatron there. It might seem a tad stalkerish but I bet she would enjoy it.

I'll need to look when I get home. I do have a VK account with some Russian friends/skaters on there.

I really don't care if people watch my videos or not but I would be lying if I said I wasn't making them with other people in mind. When I make a video it's not to show the tricks and highlights but instead I aim to capture the moment a skater is creating. That's why my videos feature more skating and emotion than just the jumps and spins. That said..I spent five hours plus working on that last one timing up and trimming the music to fit the images I selected(even longer on the 4cc video). It's fun and helping me to learn the editor but I'm not sure if its worth it. I guess the urge to edit comes and goes.

I know exactly what you mean. :yes: If a video is edited and uploaded to YouTube & nobody watches it -- does it make a sound? I try to include skating and emotion in my edits too, especially in how the music syncs-up & flows with the video clips. It's incredibly tough to do this with certain skaters, especially if I don't feel a connection to the program.

I haven't watched your latest video yet, Sam, but I will check it out when I get home later tonight. As I mentioned above, I'm not at home and currently posting on a mobile device (and it's my birthday today, so I've been kinda distracted lately... )

I would encourage you to keep making videos! I know there are people out there who definitely appreciate your vids. ITA, many people don't understand or appreciate the true amount of time/effort it requires to do some of these videos... and if you're not a video editor, this makes perfect sense. There are plenty of things I don't fully appreciate/understand -- like the time/effort it requires to maintain a site/board like this one, for example.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Happy b-day Sabinfire

Sima's 3lz tano jumpamatron

I'm going to start collecting all of the videos and repost them in the OP. I'll breakdown the ones I made in one group and any of Sabinfires into a seperate list. That way they will all be in one place for people to go thru and watch.

I've been wanting to put my JWC SP Remix on this page so I'll just slide it in here. 720p HD available

 

[sabinfire]

I spent five hours plus working on that last one timing up and trimming the music to fit the images I selected(even longer on the 4cc video).

JWC SP Remix

Nice job! That's some real dedication... 5+ hours! I don't think I've even put half that time into any skating video I've done yet. I can see why it would take that long though, since you had dozens of different clips to arrange in a specific order, probably changed the velocity on many of them, and put it all in time to the music. Not to mention the time and effort that goes into choosing which clips to use in the first place, out of an event that lasted many hours...

I'm going to start collecting all of the videos and repost them in the OP. I'll breakdown the ones I made in one group and any of Sabinfires into a seperate list. That way they will all be in one place for people to go thru and watch.

Great idea. We're already 9 or 10 pages into this topic, so having a compiled list in the OP would definitely make it easier for people to access the vids that are buried in here.

 

[sowcow]

...And Mao's 3A from the SP at worlds last year...actually, I'd like to see her 3A, 3F-3L and 2A-3T from Sochi since the judges called her on those and I thought she deserved the benefit of the doubt like everyone else got.

Sam, would you be so kind to do A Jumpamatron of Mao's 3Lo combos? Mainly at the Olympics and Worlds last year. Worlds 2008 and the Jupiter EX would be also great.

I think some folks might be less likely to fulfill Sochi Olympic requests because the footage can be more difficult to track down, and even if one has it, they may be reluctant to post footage on YouTube... which is a shame, given the great moments from that event...

Alchamei - Here's a slow-motion video analysis of Mao Asada's 3Lo combo from the Olympics (Team Event, Short Program):

Not applying 'under-rotated' & 'downgraded' jump deductions (ANALYSIS) | Mao Asada, JPN | Olympics
​

Sabinfire - Your thoughts related to posting videos from the Sochi Olympics on YouTube are true indeed! I had several of my Sochi 'analysis' videos removed; although this Mao Asada 3Lp-2Lp Olympics Team Event video was never challenged (likely because it was made entirely from video 'still shots', and not the video itself...).

---

As for the criticism & negative comments posted about the video, most were accusations that I was 'targeting' or 'singling-out' Mao for this type of slow-motion analysis. This was absolutely NOT the motivation behind the video (rather, it was meant to focus on the shortcomings of the Technical Panel). In fact, I had hoped the description/introduction that accompanied the video (copy & pasted below) would serve to dispel and head-off such comments. Obviously, it did not ...

Just one example of under-rotated jumps that are not being penalized or downgraded:

~ Triple-Loop_Double-Loop (3L-2L) combination jump
~ Mao Asada, JPN
~ 2014 Olympics (Figure Skating Team Event, Ladies Short Program segment)

On jump landings, up to a 1/4 turn on the ice is permissible (and no "under-rotated jump" or "downgraded jump" deductions will be applied to the base value for that element). This is clearly defined in the Technical rules.

Cheating on the 'take off' edge of a jump is far less common, and (to my knowledge) no formal Technical penalties/deductions are defined.

The Loop is an edge jump, and so it is natural to curl/rotate the edge right at the point of take-off. If you examine the groove in the ice made by the blade on take-off, most people will find a 1/4 turn before the blade actually leaves the ice surface. As with jump landings, I would argue that up to a 1/4 turn on the ice at take-off is acceptable.

However, at the 2014 Olympics (Team event, ladies short program) Mao Asada clearly goes well beyond a 1/4 turn on her take-off and landing on both the triple loop (3L) and double loop (2L) in this combination jump. Nevertheless, the Technical Panel credits her for completing a successful 3L-2L combination jump; with NO "under-rotated jump" or "downgraded jump" penalties/deductions.

Mao finished 3rd in the event segment (and Japan was awarded 8 points); but she was followed very closely by the American & Canadian competitors. If this 3L-2L combination had been appropriately downgraded to a 2L-1L, Mao would have dropped to at least 5th position.

1 LIPNITSKAYA Yulia RUS 72.90
2 KOSTNER Carolina ITA 70.84
3 ASADA Mao JPN 64.07
4 WAGNER Ashley USA 63.10
5 OSMOND Kaetlyn CAN 62.54
6 MEITE Mae Berenice FRA 55.45
7 ZHANG Kexin CHN 54.58
8 POPOVA Natalia UKR 53.44
9 WEINZIERL Nathalie GER 52.16
10 McCORKELL Jenna GBR 50.09

What are your thoughts on the consistency and/or applicability of "under-rotated jump" or "downgraded jump" penalties/deductions? What about cases where a skater cheats on the take-off edge?

 

[Alchamei]

Thank you Sowcow, but I've already seen that video. I should have been more clear, I meant her 3F-3Lo.

 

[yyyskate]

the easiest way to measure if a -loop is under-rotated or not, is to ask a skater to do a double loop (if triple loop combo is too difficult) take a photo of the ice tracing, then do a 2lo-2lo combo or any combo ends with loop, take another photo of the ice tracing and then compare the solo loop and -loop. the the curve of ice tracing should be similar,then it is NOT under-rotated.
as for Mao Asada's case, she practices 3A at the same place, where she usually will try 2A as well, and you can clearly see that her 3A landing ice tracing is 90 degree short of her 2A ice tracing in her best attempt(and sometimes assisted with two foot as the hole on ice caused by her other toe-pick).
her 3S is that, if she pre-rotates much, as showed in ice tracing is very curved entry, then her landing ice tracing curve will be straighter. if her entry curve is normal, then her landing ice tracing curve will be very curved.
another good way to do comparison out of footage is to put loop combo from 2 skater side by side together, e.g. TaraLip's 3lo-3lo vs Mao's 3F-3lo, and compare their upper as well as legs and blades, then it will be very obvious the amount of pre-rotation and under-rotation.
also could compare Yuna's -2lo to Mao's -2lo

 

[alia jackson]

Wowser! Sam's Yuzu video 9K+ views...congrats