So Who's an Underdog and Who's a Favorite at Nationals?

[MKFSfan]

I think that's a typo in MKFSfan's post. I think what Sasha said was that the competition at Worlds was NOT as "dense" as for the Olympics. In the context (she was announcing that she had decided to go to worlds after all), it made it sound like she was saying that she wouldn't face much competition there, in the absence of Arakawa, Slutskaya, etc.

Thank you-typed too quickly and left out a couple of words she used...

Your posts are definitely about MKs faults

Trust me on this-I AM a Michelle fan 1st and foremost! Do you really think I criticize Michelle??? I've been accused of policing boards in Michelle's defense (elsewhere) so to hear someone say I post about MK's faults floors me!

I get careful in my posts about Sasha at times because I don't want to bash her when making my point. As for media/fan bashing-I may have written too quickly without a lot of thought. Yes, Sasha does get A LOT of hype from the press, reprters and commentators alike, but when she doesn't deliver, she is torn down quickly by all who built her up to be the greatest thing ever and the fans. The whole attitude surrounding Sasha seems to be,"This is Sasha's to win! All she has to do is stand up! The most talented...blah blah...And she's been flawless in practice!...However, her nerves are known to get her." Then when she doesn't live up to the hype, we hear,"Sasha did it to herself once again...blah blah."like she did it on purpose, she's disappointed all of us and it's a shock her nerves got the best of her.

 

[Tonichelle]

I think where we're having a problem with the media and it's bias is defining what medium of the media we're talking about... the US national news media is quite unkind to Sasha. When they're not reminding the public that Sasha's never been a "real winner" (without Michelle at Nationals her gold doesn't count, it seems) and she's not ever taken seriously in the news. They just mention her and then go on about the other ladies (I'm talking pre-competition)

 

[MKFSfan]

Not only that, but sports reporters are now referring to other athletes who fail after being hyped as being that sports "Sasha Cohen". The latest victim is Michelle Wie. I think that is unfair and insulting to Sasha.

 

[Tonichelle]

hadn't read that! go figure. gotta love the US media in all her forms lol

btw, don't feel the need to explain your fandom to people. Why Michelle Kwan fans have to be "different" from all the other fans in some people's eyes is beyond me. Like who you like, say who you like... say what you think your favorite could and should improve on. Don't apologise or worry what other's are going to interpret it as.

 

[Spun Silver]

MKFSFAN - Your posts are definitely about MKs faults, and you are very protective of Sasha. No problem there for me. But I do wonder why you use that User ID? Wouldn't COHENFAN- be more identifiable for you?

There' really nothing to be ashamed of in this forum. We have lots of Cohen fans and we love them.

Joe

Funny how the same poster can strike different readers. For me MKFSfan is clearly an MK fan who (unlike some others) also has a critical appreciation of Cohen (ie, she likes her but sees more flaws than a fan would). MKFSfan seems to strive for objectivity - hence the criticism of both MK and SC. I appreciate her efforts to be fair and to really listen to the points made by other posters.

 

[Spun Silver]

Not only that, but sports reporters are now referring to other athletes who fail after being hyped as being that sports "Sasha Cohen". The latest victim is Michelle Wie. I think that is unfair and insulting to Sasha.

Your answer and Tonichelle's to Joe re media bashing of SC are right on. Also remember the post-Olympic coverage - big fall pic on many front pages - and the post-Worlds line in the media - Cohen fails again - as well as a much-googled article on why Cohen must be hated.

 

[R.D.]

Not only that, but sports reporters are now referring to other athletes who fail after being hyped as being that sports "Sasha Cohen". The latest victim is Michelle Wie. I think that is unfair and insulting to Sasha.

I've never heard that term used before. Kind of funny, actually... But if one spins it the other way it COULD be a compliment. After all, she's recognized enough to be referred to like that. Can't be bad for FS in the long run.

Your answer and Tonichelle's to Joe re media bashing of SC are right on. Also remember the post-Olympic coverage - big fall pic on many front pages - and the post-Worlds line in the media - Cohen fails again - as well as a much-googled article on why Cohen must be hated.

IIRC basically everybody was down on Cohen at that point- even some of her own fans seemed to turn on her. I know of one specific example of that right here on GS.

I read that article on why Cohen must be hated. I even posted it here but got shut down, so I removed it. Whatever happened to free speech.

It's odd that I didn't see nearly as much dumping on Irina even though she faltered about as much as Cohen did. (In my opinion, a little bit less).

 

[bobby]

so who's an underdog and who's a favorite at Nationals?

Stupid question, I'm way behind on the times here, but is Kwan still competing, or is that still a debate? To me, she would be the favorite underdog.

 

[R.D.]

Stupid question, I'm way behind on the times here, but is Kwan still competing, or is that still a debate? To me, she would be the favorite underdog.

We don't know Kwan's status. Right now she's battling an injury that forced her to pull out of the OLYs.

For sure, if she can make it to 2007 nats she will be the "sentimental favorite" (or as you put it, "favorite underdog").

 

[MKFSfan]

I've never heard that term used before. Kind of funny, actually... But if one spins it the other way it COULD be a compliment. After all, she's recognized enough to be referred to like that. Can't be bad for FS in the long run.

It's odd that I didn't see nearly as much dumping on Irina even though she faltered about as much as Cohen did. (In my opinion, a little bit less).

I guess it could be positive-her name is getting more familiar. Supposedly Sasha found the SNL skit humorous, so maybe she just figures bad press is better than no press, esp. now that she's contemplating an acting career. Another sthlete was Amelie Mauresmo/Kim Clijsters for Tennis. And there was another athlete, a male, but I forget who and which sport.

I think there are two reasons why there wasn't much dumping on Irina by the press: her personal stories and the fact she's not American.

 

[R.D.]

Indeed, as I read a quote from another poster "The only thing worse than being hated is not being cared about." Granted, that's the "extreme" of this circumstance, but the point still comes across loud and clear. I think you're right about Irina. Her "comeback" overshadowed everything, and maybe only us skating fans knew that she was a big threat for the OGM.

And sorry to "rant off" for a minute, but why do all these athletes/singers want to go into acting? No offense to those interested but typically I find that most Actresses tend to be Divas. They just love the Attention that the Red Carpet Brings. And methinks those athletes/singers who WANT to be actresses want that type of fame. I see someone like Tara Lipinski- always at all these events getting her picture taken- and a good fourth of my collection is pics of just her- haven't seen her in a real movie (just cameo roles in cheesy TV shows). But she sure gets to live the life anyway. I'm sure she's happy.

I could never be a celebrity. I hate someone taking my picture let alone the idea of being famous. No privacy!

 

[MKFSfan]

I pretty much agree with you, Red Dog! Here's my take...

Although they are FS and acting are completely different industries, you got to admit there are some similarities. Both are acting and about being made up and pretending to be someone else. Both get showered with praise and attention when done well. Both can be glamourous. Obviously being a talented athlete does not transend to being a decent actor, since not only do you have to "sell" your character, you got to talk the part and interact believabley with other characters. I can see why someone like Sasha would become enamoured with acting. She loves attention and the spotlight. She loved being on the red carpet and minglibg with stars. What I wonder, is when it gets time to pull 12 hour days, doing the same scene over and over, not to mention all the studying and prep to just learn your character, will Sasha REALLY like it? I mean, we heard about her questionable work ethic, how she rather do certain things and not others. Tara obviously has tremendous work ethic and she went to school for acting She gets some perks of being famous, being an actress, but she doesn't have much resume to show for it.

 

[R.D.]

I pretty much agree with you, Red Dog! Here's my take...

Although they are FS and acting are completely different industries, you got to admit there are some similarities. Both are acting and about being made up and pretending to be someone else. Both get showered with praise and attention when done well. Both can be glamourous. Obviously being a talented athlete does not transend to being a decent actor, since not only do you have to "sell" your character, you got to talk the part and interact believabley with other characters. I can see why someone like Sasha would become enamoured with acting. She loves attention and the spotlight. She loved being on the red carpet and minglibg with stars.

yeah. And (you may disagree with me here) I think this can be connected to our discussion earlier about Cohen being a Diva and being Attention-Seeking. (IMO) That's what she seeks and what better way to grab a ticket to Fame than being an actress? Nothing.

What I wonder, is when it gets time to pull 12 hour days, doing the same scene over and over, not to mention all the studying and prep to just learn your character, will Sasha REALLY like it? I mean, we heard about her questionable work ethic

Our Million-Dollar Question.

However, I think that if she really hated the grind of being a top-level figure skater she would have given up a long time ago. Instead I think she's just slowly giving up hope and accepting that she'll never win the big one, and then moving on.

Tara obviously has tremendous work ethic and she went to school for acting She gets some perks of being famous, being an actress, but she doesn't have much resume to show for it.

I don't know about Tara's work ethic now (what's she doing nowadays besides attending premieres and enjoying the VIP Lounge?) but yes, she barely has anything to show for the last six years. I wonder if she would have continued skating had she not had hip trouble.

 

[MKFSfan]

Our Million-Dollar Question.

However, I think that if she really hated the grind of being a top-level figure skater she would have given up a long time ago. Instead I think she's just slowly giving up hope and accepting that she'll never win the big one, and then moving on.
.

I agree with you on all points! I just question the above-it's been said Sasha loves to practice her spirals and spins, but doesn't like doing complete run-throughs and work solely on jumps. I have no idea if that is true or not, BUT funny how the part she excells in is what she loves to do. Is it that part comes so easy for her, and she'd rather take it easy? Or is it she does like that aspect of skating best so she put a lot of energy and focus, and the results show because it's the best aspect of her skating? I don't think it's the grind or the work, per se, just the amount of what is focused on.

 

[Mathman]

Whatever happened to [the right of] free speech?

It was abrogated.

That "article" -- actually, some silly web log -- was just too stupid. We do have some standards around here, after all!

MM

 

[R.D.]

oh, come on. It wasn't THAT bad. Sure it may have been "silly" but I think some need to lighten up a bit...

 

[R.D.]

I agree with you on all points! I just question the above-it's been said Sasha loves to practice her spirals and spins, but doesn't like doing complete run-throughs and work solely on jumps. I have no idea if that is true or not, BUT funny how the part she excells in is what she loves to do. Is it that part comes so easy for her, and she'd rather take it easy? Or is it she does like that aspect of skating best so she put a lot of energy and focus, and the results show because it's the best aspect of her skating? I don't think it's the grind or the work, per se, just the amount of what is focused on.

Not too surprising, actually. I think it shows in her skating, too. If she really wanted that title she'd be jumping night and day, no matter how grueling it might be. But I believe consistency isn't something that develops overnight. I think in her case she may just have to get "lucky" one day and have all the contenders mess up worse than she does.

But clear the house for a new arrival. Names get stale after a while, IMO.

 

[Spun Silver]

I think if the most gifted skaters are thought to get "stale" at age 21, that says more about the trendiness of the American public and the media-driven hunger for novelty than it does about the skaters!

Time was, athletes became more and more beloved and respected as they continued to medal or win. Longevity was considered a virtue!

 

[R.D.]

I don't think that's changed, really. Look at Kwan.

 

[MKFSfan]

I don't think that's changed, really. Look at Kwan.

Exactly!

And Irina!

But you do have to admit, since 2002, people have been calling for Michelle's head...well, retirement! Actually, people have been calling Michelle "stale" or rather, too old, since 2000. Michelle wasn't her best in 1999, between distractions with school and probably needed some extra motivation, then she was sick at Worlds, I think a lot have up on her. 2000 and 2001-she was only really hailed for her wins at Worlds those years. BUT IMO she's remained popular and a sentimental favorite thanks in part to her resume/longetivity and her "American Princess" persona.