SP and FS replaced by Technical and Artistic programs?

[Mathman]

^ No, actually it would not be anything like that at all, Johnny. But I loved your Swan program. :yes:

 

[lpt]

I think Johnny knows better.

 

[karne]

Given how tepid US seems to be toward marvellous, once in ten generations Nathan Chen, despite him being an ideal young man in every way imaginable,

Wow. I know you hate Jason but this is just a statement completely not grounded in reality.

Chen has been the beneficiary of an unprecedented propaganda campaign from USFS (partnered with NBC). All that stuff about "his ballet training!" and articles proclaiming he could have been the next Nuryev (I mean, yikes) and that bloody "Peter and the Wolf" video that they whip out at every turn as proof he is "such an artist!" while he throws out all his choreography to land quads. The President of the USFS even gave an interview in May 2018 where he described Chen and Zhou as the only two worthwhile men in US skating! Good grief!

 

[karne]

I think Johnny knows better.

I think bitter, twisted Weir says what suits his view. Weir does not want Jason to do well because Jason is the artist Weir always wishes he was. Weir feeds out his lines from NBC to push Chen. That Jason has benefited from the +5/-5 was entirely unexpected and not the USFS goal.

 

[Tolstoj]

^ No, actually it would not be anything like that at all, Johnny. But I loved your Swan program. :yes:

I really liked his Yunona I Avos SP in 2007-08. That season he was on fire.

 

[georgia]

So because some skaters can’t land quads, let’s change the system! Is that what I hear?
Because let’s face it, Skating is extremely popular sport both in a Japan and in Russia....should I say more? The lands of the quads! LOL
Viva Nathan, Shoma, Yuzuru,Aymoz, Vincent etc ...
and the Eteri girls!
This is an Olympic sport!
Citius, Altius, Fortius.
Or Faster, Higher, Stronger!
And I am A huge fan of Mariah Bell a quad less girl !
And I love Nathan’s and Shoma’s blade...and they work very hard too to get where they are!

 

[Mathman]

I think Johnny knows better.

Johnny knows many things, but he is wrong about this. For one thing, an analogy is not a logical argument: "This is like that." Such an "argument" can always be refuted by simply saying, "No it's not. This is different from that."

Anyway, my prophesy is coming true already: everybody has an opinion and knows that his opinion is right.

 

[lpt]

As Yagudin said - 'Brown has many good qualities but modern men's skating is quad jumps'.

 

[Mathman]

Chen has been the beneficiary of an unprecedented propaganda campaign from USFS (partnered with NBC).

I agree that the USFSA is doing everything they can to publicize Nathan's talents and achievements. And it does help, as Lariko says, that Nathan is "an ideal young man in every way imaginable."

So far, though, it hasn't worked very well in terms of piquing the interest of the American public. Not the fault of the USFSA, just reflective of the general decline of interest in figure skating in the U.S., especially men's figure skating which always lagged behind ladies. In the whole history of figure skating in the U.S., only two, Scott Hamilton and Brian Boitano, have any kind of name recognition outside the tiny circle of skating enthusiasts. Maybe this will change if Nathan wins the Olympics in 2022 -- but it didn't help Evan Lysacek.

That's why I hate to see fights between Nathan Chen fans and Jason Brown fans -- they are fighting over such a small piece of the pie that it hardly seems worth it.

 

[Mathman]

As Yagudin said - 'Brown has many good qualities but modern men's skating is quad jumps'.

And good for Yagudin for not remaining silent on the sidelines. I am a big fan of his Winter SP -- the best men's SP of all time, for me.

Of course, if this ISU proposal passes then we will be heading into the post-modern era.

Edited to add: Actually, it is interesting to see Alexei Yagudin take this stance. If quads had been valued as highly in his day as they are now, Timothy Goebel would be the 2002 Olympic champion. Goebel out-quaded both Yagudin and Plushenko. But Yagudin was better on the artistic side (much better than Goebel and also better than Plushenko was in 2002).

 

[karne]

As Yagudin said - 'Brown has many good qualities but modern men's skating is quad jumps'.

Really? You're gonna quote a raging homophobe who literally hates Jason because he doesn't skate "manly" enough for him?

 

[georgia]

I have said it here many times. Judges have only one interest right now and it’s making Jason brown world and Olympic champion. They are desperate for it. He is the judges favorite skater in the world. No one comes close to their love of Jason brown. But he has no ability to do quads at all. None. Zero. So now they are all uniting to almost abolish all value of quads In skating so as to allow brown to win. And they will succeed and brown will win worlds and Olympics very soon

You are absolutely correct! It’s the game the judges play, supposedly because the sport is losing popularity. In their desperation to make a certain skater the champion they are willing to change the system again!And that skater is a very good person, and a good skater. But the desire of his fans and that of the judges to make us adore him, sadly makes it impossible for us to enjoy him!

 

[Mathman]

So because some skaters can’t land quads, let’s change the system! Is that what I hear?

I don't really think so. The ISU list of scored elements for the long and short programs have always put a limit on quads and on jumping in general. (only 7 jumping passes allowed -- down from the previous 8, like Michelle Kwan did in 1998, etc.) Maybe there are skaters out there who are capable of doing ten quads in 4 minutes. Well, good for them -- but that is not the sport of figure sjkating according the the cherished and traditional "well-balanced program" rules.

Think of this proposal as just a little "re-balancing" which may have the effect of producing programs with slightly more attention paid to non-jump elements and to more engaging appeal on the performance side. It could turn out to be a win-win.

 

[lpt]

Really? You're gonna quote a raging homophobe who literally hates Jason because he doesn't skate "manly" enough for him?

Yes I'm really gonna quote Olympic and World Champion Alexei Yagudin.

 

[el henry]

As Yagudin said - 'Brown has many good qualities but modern men's skating is quad jumps'.

.

Really? Alexei Yagudin who “likes” homophobic comments regarding Jason on social media? Did not just like them, but applauded them?

His opinion isn’t worth its weight in spam

Modern men’s skating is so many wonderful things, and Jason is one of those many wonderful things:agree: I feel sorry if all anyone can see is the extra revolution in the air, missing so much that is exciting and athletic and sporting about skating,

 

[Mathman]

You are absolutely correct! It’s the game the judges play, supposedly because the sport is losing popularity. In their desperation to make a certain skater the champion ...

To be truthful about it, this sounds like Chicken Little yelling that the sky is falling. Help, help! The Big Brown Machine is coming! It will crush us all!

The ISU fiddles with the rules every year. The more things change the more they stay the same. Nathan Chen and Yuzuru Hanyu will still clobber Jasion Brown, no matter how much imagined "desperation" we assign to figure skating judges. The Eteri wondergirls will still win everything in sight (unless Rika Kihira gets a quad Salchow and hits all her triple Axels).

The "artists" are not out to get us. We will survive even this. :yes:

 

[lpt]

His opinion isn’t worth its weight in spam

His opinion is an opinion of the Olympic Champion and one of the greatest figure skaters in the human history. So it is worth immeasurably more than opinions of some anonymous folks

 

[el henry]

I agree that the USFSA is doing everything they can to publicize Nathan's talents and achievements. And it does help, as Lariko says, that Nathan is "an ideal young man in every way imaginable."

So far, though, it hasn't worked very well in terms of piquing the interest of the American public. Not the fault of the USFSA, just reflective of the general decline of interest in figure skating in the U.S., especially men's figure skating which always lagged behind ladies. In the whole history of figure skating in the U.S., only two, Scott Hamilton and Brian Boitano, have any kind of name recognition outside the tiny circle of skating enthusiasts. Maybe this will change if Nathan wins the Olympics in 2022 -- but it didn't help Evan Lysacek.

That's why I hate to see fights between Nathan Chen fans and Jason Brown fans -- they are fighting over such a small piece of the pie that it hardly seems worth it.

I agree about fighting between fans, and I find much to admire in Nathan’s skating. Of course Jason is my favorite, but there is so much to like in all our wonderful men.

As a Jason fan, I find it interesting that those who do not follow appear to follow American men’s skating seem to hold up Nathan as a way to argue against Jason getting points even when many US men’s fans do not. The US men’s skating fans know better.

 

[georgia]

I don't really think so. The ISU list of scored elements for the long and short programs have always put a limit on quads and on jumping in general. (only 7 jumping passes allowed -- down from the previous 8, like Michelle Kwan did in 1998, etc.) Maybe there are skaters out there who are capable of doing ten quads in 4 minutes. Well, good for them -- but that is not the sport of figure sjkating according the the cherished and traditional "well-balanced program" rules.

Think of this proposal as just a little "re-balancing" which may have the effect of producing programs with slightly more attention paid to non-jump elements and to more engaging appeal on the performance side. It could turn out to be a win-win.

I hear you. But my argument is, Skating is an Olympic sport! The athlete should be able to do the best and most difficult program that he can. Imagine telling a sprinter or any other athlete out there to Not do their best!
Maybe it’s time for skating to split in two. The artistic skating and the sport of skating. Also let’s bring back the 10.

 

[el henry]

His opinion is an opinion of the Olympic Champion and one of the greatest figure skaters in the human history. So it worth immeasurably more than opininions of some anonymous folks.

Did he or did he not use a clapping hand in response to the comment on his IG post: “Jason Brown is a <slur word for gay man>>who cannot even do triples”?

Obviously I do not need to respect the opinion of such a fool and I don’t. Has nothing to do with anonymous persons