The best triple axels, 3A jumpers, and some other random stats.

[Serious Business]

If Nationals scores are included, Dornbush will not be 2nd on PB list. Chan scored 11.35 for his 3A in the Canadian Championships LP.

I didn't include national scores. As I said, Dornbush's highest scoring 3axel was at the Junior Grand Prix Finals' FS, an international competition. Or are you making some point that I'm not getting?

 

[Violet Bliss]

Japanese Nationals 3As:

HANYU..............10.70 SP
Kozuka.............10.50 SP & LP
MURA................10.50 SP & LP
ODA.................10.50 SP
NAKAMURA.........9.90 LP
TAKAHASHI.........9.90 LP
MURAKAMI...........9.35 LP*
TANAKA...............9.30 SP
MACHIDA.............9.10 SP
TSUBOI................8.70 LP

ETA Sorry, SB, with the US NAT numbers being brought up to "complete" the data, I got mixed up. Yes, Dornish JGP 3A is impressive.

Any way we look at it, Oda owns the 3A.

 

[Mathman]

1.83 is possible only when a judge is missing, like at junior grand prix finals LP.

 

[Serious Business]

ETA Sorry, SB, with the US NAT numbers being brought up to "complete" the data, I got mixed up. Yes, Dornish JGP 3A is impressive.

I didn't include nats when calculating averages and ranking the best because some of them are rather iffy. For instance, Shawn Sawyer's 3axel in the FS had a wild landing, but still got a +.33. That would be extremely unlikely internationally. On the other hand, the GOE scoring at other nationals, like US nationals and Japanese nationals seemed pretty fair. I only included nationals when it comes to tabulating how many 3axel attempts out of all of them were fully successful for Dornbush (3/8) and Messing (5/8) to get a general idea of how reliable that jump is for them this season.

dorispulaski chose to include US nationals because Ryan Bradley hasn't had any other competition yet this season.

 

[Serious Business]

Looking back at past skaters, there are great 3axels for every taste:

Size:

I think Midori Ito and Tonya Harding's triple axels, proportionate to their height, had the biggest 3axels of any skater of either gender. I want to say that Ito has the bigger 3axel of the two, but it's hard to tell from video. Still, Harding's axel lacked Ito's leg wrap, so Harding has the edge in that one area. On the other hand, Ito landed far more 3axels over her career, she even landed one at the ripe old age of 26 at the Japanese nationals (and it was just as huge as it ever was)!

Of course, some men had huge triple axels, too. Jozef Sabovčík had a monstrous triple axel, and that's in proportion to his relatively tall height (he's 5'9", compared to Midori Ito's 4'9"). Given how relatively tall he is for a skater, Jozef's 3axel, where his skates seemed at least clear what would be his waist-level height if he was still on the ice, must've put dents in the roof. See an example here. Canadian also-ran Vaughn Chipeur had a huge triple axel when he hit it. See example here. Too bad neither of those skaters had much else going for them.

Intricate entry:

American also-ran Matt Savoie had one of the craziest entries I've seen to a 3axel: he'd do one right out of a hydroblade. See example here. Among the ladies, Mao Asada used to do her 3axel out of a series of turns, which I thought was both pretty and gutsy. See example here.

 

[stevlin]

I liked all the 3 axels mentioned above (with special for Ito and Harding)....but didn't Eldredge have some spectacular triple axels too?

I thought Todd Eldredge's triple axel was the most amazing. It was high and he covered alot of ice with it.

 

[jan]

Brian Orser had a textbook triple axel..perfect edge control going in and coming out!!!

 

[bibi24]

Ilia Kulik had the textbook 3A according to Kurt Browning, Scott Hamilton, and Brian Boitano; Todd Elderedge was even intimidated by Ilia at times. 3A on the floor.

Size:

I think Midori Ito and Tonya Harding's triple axels, proportionate to their height, had the biggest 3axels of any skater of either gender

I would say Alexei Yagudin had the biggest 3A, he finishes rotating and opens up well before landing. Quadruple Axel rumor?

 

[Serious Business]

I would say Alexei Yagudin had the biggest 3A, he finishes rotating and opens up well before landing.

That has nothing to do with the size of a triple axel. In my discussion, I was talking about the apex height of the triple axel in proportion to the height of the skater. What you're talking about has to do with the efficiency of the revolution and the timing of the jump. A skater who rotates faster will get those revolutions done sooner. A skater who starts the revolution sooner will get them done sooner. That's not directly related to the height of the triple axel. For instance, Brian Orser's triple axel, which doesn't look as high as Yagudin's, opens up well before the landing, too.

Yagudin had a massive triple axel. But no way was it as high as Jozef Sabovčík's. And compared to the relative height of Tonya Harding and Midori Ito's triple axels, Yagudin was a mere mortal.

 

[gio]

IMO Tonya Harding had textbook triples, including the triple axel. A close second is Midori Ito.

 

[Tonichelle]

I would say Alexei Yagudin had the biggest 3A, he finishes rotating and opens up well before landing. Quadruple Axel rumor?

Kurt Browning also used to have a lot of time after rotation before he landed... he is of the belief that a quad axel is next to impossible (or at least that's what he said way back in 1990)

 

[gkelly]

I can't find his very best examples on youtube (1996 Europeans -- just textbook jumps that week -- and also 1995 Nation's Cup), but Vyacheslav Zagorodniuk had a very big 3A from a young age.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I wouldn't call Tonya Harding's 3Axel textbook at all. She very much muscled through that jump and was always tilted in the air. Midori Ito's was far better.

 

[pangtongfan]

Tonya had an amazing triple lutz and triple flip. Her triple axel definitely wasnt as good as Ito's though. She was always crooked and the ones she landed could have easily fallen on most of them.

 

[FlattFan]

Midori's 3As look so much better than Oda's. Better height, better distance, just a thing of beauty.

Her 3A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2H6PfFr59M

Oda's 3A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=L_OPuc8SVgQ#t=93s

I agree, Tonya's 3As position don't look good at all. Her landings on the 4 she did were extremely jerky.

 

[jenaj]

I wouldn't call Tonya Harding's 3Axel textbook at all. She very much muscled through that jump and was always tilted in the air. Midori Ito's was far better.

More than 20 years later, Midori Ito's 3Axel is still the best, IMO.

 

[Serious Business]

There are more qualities to look for in a triple axel besides height (not that I'm not a sucker for a huge high triple axel, 'cause I totally am). There's also distance covered, and the speed coming and control coming out of a jump. The last two is where Nobunari Oda rocks it. Just watch this compilation of Oda's triple axel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAVr9Scs0cE

He looks like he might be skating faster coming out of a triple axel than going in! And that knee action works so well. I'm not a skater or a bio mechanics person, but maybe what Oda does is transfer some of the impact of the landing to his skating speed. At any rate, his speed and control out of the 3axel is why he's able to pull off those 3axel/3toe/2loop combos so well consistently. There's no denying that in some important aspects of the triple axel, Oda is the best ever.

 

[Violet Bliss]

I linked a (very funny) video on the Patrick Chan And Don Jackson thread, in which Kurt and Patrick answered fans' questions. Kurt's immediate answer to "who is the best jumper" was Midori Ito, whose 3A just "popped". Patrick was fingering Kurt and named Boitano , as well as an earlier mention of Todd Eldridge besides Kurt for the best 3A, which he studied with the Dartfish software.

eta that Kurt also named Joseph Sevacek(sp?) as the best jumper, still doing all the difficult triples at 46 years of age. Does anybody here know who he is and the right name?

 

[Tonichelle]

I think Kurt secretly crushed on Midori when they were olympic eligible

I love the video on youtube where they do side by side 3A (granted she fell, but he goes and picks her up) she's almost as high up as he is. Insanity!)

 

[Serious Business]

Here's the clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CBCyz1yKT0&feature=player_detailpage#t=19s

Midori's triple axel really is almost as high as Kurt's, and she's 4'9" to his 5'7".