The Judging Controversy Thread

[capcomeback]

Well, it will rather depend on how many will really stop following the sport at the end of the day. By now, both sports and television governing bodies probably hope that the scandal will bring more interest to figure skating.

True, but the "any kind of attention is better than no attention" will only go so far when your sport is perceived to be a joke. All of the short term publicity will quickly fade and skating will be perceived negatively. This the governing bodies and TV don't want, as it will erode the sport's fan base (the way it happened after SLC). Skating still has not totally recovered its worldwide popularity after 2002 (though it had been recovering). I fear if nothing is done to better define the scoring/judging then it will truly make things worse.

My big suggestions are to get rid of GOE and the bonus (along with anonymous judging). GOE involves adding a subjective measure into the objective scoring to a sport that already has a lot of subjectivity in its scoring. Grade the quality of the jumps in the PCS under quality if overall skating. Subtract for edge calls, UR's and falls. The bonus is stupid and sports fans just don't get why elements in the second part of the program should be rewarded. A soccer goal scored in the 88th minute is worth just as much a one scored in the first. In basketball, a free-throw made in minute one is worth as much as minute 39.

Getting rid of anonymous judging is a no-brainer.

I would also suggest getting rid of judges'/officials' affiliations to local national bodies and have them all simply affiliated to the ISU. By doing this, it will help to minimize local favoritism as shown in Sochi.

 

[Anna K.]

True, but the "any kind of attention is better than no attention" will only go so far when your sport is perceived to be a joke. All of the short term publicity will quickly fade and skating will be perceived negatively. This the governing bodies and TV don't want, as it will erode the sport's fan base (the way it happened after SLC). Skating still has not totally recovered its worldwide popularity after 2002 (though it had been recovering). I fear if nothing is done to better define the scoring/judging then it will truly make things worse.

The bad response after SLC might well be the reason why the officials are afraid to start any actions this time.
Especially because this time NBC finally have good news, see this forum thread:

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...-amp-Advertiser-Response-to-Olympics-Coverage

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I agree with you but wanted to inform you of a better consensus on this board.

1. Adelina had no choreography. (Discussion: What exactly was Sotnikova's theme in her long program?) Added with her junior-ish ice coverage and circular skating, even the apologists do not know what the heck her choreo is about. They instead resort to rhetoric such as "Adelina stole the night," "She was more athletic," which are either irrelevant or flat-out untrue.

2. With lack of choreo, there is no interpretation by definition. (with the exception of hand-waving, of course )

3. As to the quality of skating, we have an excellent post that is stickied in Figure Skating Reference forum: Evaluating Step Sequences

P.S. 17 year old Yuna and Mao (circa 2008~2009) had plenty of musicality and interpretation at that time. You can easily find their performances on YouTube.

I'm curious as to how many times @Usethis2 has posted this exact same thing. My guess is nearly 50.

The real truth is all crappy judging aside Adelina actually skated very well. For god's sake give credit where credit is due. The issue here isn't Adelina's skating or whether she is your style of skating not.

Making Adelina look worse to build up Yuna is a very disrespectful way to go about making a point as many in this very thread have said about the IOC doing it to Yuna. Unless of course you can simply adjust your moral compass to suit any argument you need. But then you are just another left or right wing "journalist" ....ugh.

 

[Anna K.]

I'm curious as to how many times @Usethis2 has posted this exact same thing. My guess is nearly 50.

This is not the part to laugh at. Once this is the Judging Controversy thread and the quality of skating is supposed to be discussed elsewhere then this is the right thing to send people there for 50 times if these are 50 new members of this forum

The left wing and right wing is of course an "...ugh" factor but we have our ignore lists for that occasion. People are passionate. They exaggerate at times. It's only human.

 

[Mathman]

For others, I'd rather say the best analogy is equestrian jumping

Penalty for fall of horse or rider: elimination.

 

[capcomeback]

I'm curious as to how many times @Usethis2 has posted this exact same thing. My guess is nearly 50.

The real truth is all crappy judging aside Adelina actually skated very well. For god's sake give credit where credit is due. The issue here isn't Adelina's skating or whether she is your style of skating not.

Making Adelina look worse to build up Yuna is a very disrespectful way to go about making a point as many in this very thread have said about the IOC doing it to Yuna. Unless of course you can simply adjust your moral compass to suit any argument you need. But then you are just another left or right wing "journalist" ....ugh.

The problem with your points are that I'm not sure what you mean when you say "she skated very well". Did she complete all of her technical elements relatively flawlessly? No. She had a rather ugly fallout of her 3-2-2 and she was generously forgiven by a few judges. She had an edge call ignored on her triple lutz and a missed UR on her triple toe in the same combination and should have suffered a deduction. Many of her GOEs were inflated.

As far as skating quality, her speed was OK, but not as fast as the top ladies (OK, maybe she had fewer cross-overs than Carolina, but maybe she should have added more) nor the same ice coverage. She lacked musicality and dramatic timing in her interpretation. I won't be as mean as usethis2, but her choreography was greatly lacking (if not non-existent) through the course of her FS. It seemed she was trying cover her lacking choreography with transitions that did not seem to relate to what she was doing on the ice.

Her performance was not what I would expect in an Olympic champion. The most memorably positive thing I can think of about her FS (and SP for that matter) was that her butt did not get cold (like Gracie's and Julia's did). Based upon the flaws of Julia falling (and her not getting dinged more in her short was inexplicable, BTW) and the flaws in Gracie's program, added to Mao's disastrous SP, Ashly not meeting a jump she had not wanted to two-foot, Akiko's and Polina's technical problems, Adelina certainly belonged on the podium. Adelina did skate well, maybe even "very well" relatively, but not in comparison to Carolina and Yuna (certinaly not close to an Olympic record). Yes, Adelina belonged on the podium, just below Yuna and Carolina.

 

[gmyers]

How could the qualifier of relatively be introduced and then said sotnikova was not relatively? Of course she was relatively!

 

[capcomeback]

How could the qualifier of relatively be introduced and then said sotnikova was not relatively? Of course she was relatively!

She skated "relatively very well" compared to everybody except Yuna and Carolina. This is what most people seem to believe. That is why I think Adelina deserved bronze.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

The problem with your points are that I'm not sure what you mean when you say "she skated very well". Did she complete all of her technical elements relatively flawlessly? No. She had a rather ugly fallout of her 3-2-2 and she was generously forgiven by a few judges. She had an edge call ignored on her triple lutz and a missed UR on her triple toe in the same combination and should have suffered a deduction. Many of her GOEs were inflated.

As far as skating quality, her speed was OK, but not as fast as the top ladies (OK, maybe she had few cross-overs than Carolina, but maybe she should have added more) nor the same ice coverage. She lacked musicality and dramatic timing in her interpretation. I won't be as mean as usethis2, but her choreography was greatly lacking (if not non-existent) through the course of her FS.

Her performance was not what I would expect in an Olympic champion. The most memorably positive thing I can think of about her FS (and SP for that matter) was that her butt did not get cold (like Gracie's and Julia's did). Based upon the flaws of Julia falling (and her not getting dinged more in her short was inexplicable, BTW) and the flaws in Gracie's program, added to Mao's disastrous SP, Ashly not meeting a jump she had not wanted to two-foot, Akiko's and Polina's technical problems, Adelina certainly belonged on the podium. Adelina did skate well, maybe even "very well" relatively, but not in comparison to Carolina and Yuna (certinaly not close to an Olympic record). Yes, Adelina belonged on the podium, just below Yuna and Carolina.

Quite simply put if you can't find more positives and even a little awe in what was at very worst a bronze medal performance in one of the best fields ever on the biggest stage the sport has to offer than I'm sorry...I just don't think you love or understand this sport very well. You could however easily convince me you in fact enjoy one skater but not the sport as a whole.

I'm also scratching my head at why people are trying to make this sport like other sports. I love that its different and one of the few sports that has an artistic foundation that other sports almost entirely lack. Sure we could use minor changes but not at the detriment of the artistic foundation.

 

[bmcc102]

We need to start a thread called: "Come to this thread if you HATE Adelina and LOVE Yu-Na/Come to this thread if you HATE Yu-Na and LOVE Adelina"... it would keep all the ubers out of normal threads so we don't have to endure ridiculous arguments over and over again from people who are obviously biased.

 

[Anna K.]

Penalty for fall of horse or rider: elimination.

Exactly
No medals after falling down again... and again... and again...

... it would keep all the ubers out of normal threads so we don't have to endure ridiculous arguments over and over again from people who are obviously biased.

You wish :sarcasm:

 

[capcomeback]

S-S and bmcc102-

I don't hate Adelina. She is a very talented young skater. The problem that it's hard to enjoy a program that is being crammed down my throat as one of the best ever (when it was likely the third best at that competition). It's funny S-S mentions the artistic component of the sport but it was clearly the weakest part of Adelina's programs (and remains her her biggest growth area - if she is even bothered to try to improve, now she has been crowned the best).

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

2. With lack of choreo, there is no interpretation by definition. (with the exception of hand-waving, of course )

Yes, of course Yuna wiping her face and chin throughout her LP like she just finished eating some buffalo wings is wonderful interpretation. She should rename it her Hooters program.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I don't hate Adelina. She is a very talented young skater. The problem that it's hard to enjoy a program that is being crammed down my throat as one of the best ever (when it was likely the third best at that competition).

That's the great thing about skating. No one crams anything down your throat. You can like any program you wish, and 2 or 3 of the judges likely enjoyed Yuna's program as much as you. One even marked it as the best ever.

 

[R.D.]

Yeah, it gets old for folks labeling ALL who disagree with the Sochi results as "Sotnikova haters". While it is true I'm nowhere close to being a fan of hers, I certainly do not "hate" her. That's too strong of a word.

 

[verysmuchso]

Yes, of course Yuna wiping her face and chin throughout her LP like she just finished eating some buffalo wings is wonderful interpretation. She should rename it her Hooters program.

Hungry or what? How about a dish of sour grapes?

 

[cchen24]

Yes, of course Yuna wiping her face and chin throughout her LP like she just finished eating some buffalo wings is wonderful interpretation. She should rename it her Hooters program.

Hooters program?? really??

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Yeah, it gets old for folks labeling ALL who disagree with the Sochi results as "Sotnikova haters". While it is true I'm nowhere close to being a fan of hers, I certainly do not "hate" her. That's too strong of a word.

It's about three or four posters in particular and maybe a few others that I suspect are just multiple accounts of theirs that are ruining it for everyone. It's ok to criticize but there is a major lack of respect happening here these days. I would rather see more posts celebrating Yuna's amazing skate and the end of a beautiful era than just constant harping on Adelina and figure skating in general. I mean for god's sake I think one of the most amazing things in all of the games was Yuna getting second and waving to the Russians with so much sincerety in spite of the fact they were cheering for the russian gold....wow. I love her nature! Ill always remember that forever. Yet I feel I'm one of the few that even noticed or even cares to post about how good she was without bringing Adelina into the discussion.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Hungry or what? How about a dish of sour grapes?

I'm sure you have plenty seeing as how I've never seen you post anything that sheds a positive light on anything in regards to figure skating.

 

[cchen24]

It's about three or four posters in particular and maybe a few others that I suspect are just multiple accounts of theirs that are ruining it for everyone. It's ok to criticize but there is a major lack of respect happening here these days. I would rather see more posts celebrating Yuna's amazing skate and the end of a beautiful era than just constant harping on Adelina and figure skating in general. I mean for god's sake I think one of the most amazing things in all of the games was Yuna getting second and waving to the Russians with so much sincerety in spite of the fact they were cheering for the gold....wow. I love her nature! Ill always remember that forever. Yet I feel I'm one of the few that even noticed or even cares to post about how good she was without bringing Adelina into the discussion.

In the same token, some poster(s) are quite quick o make nasty comments about Yuna to defend Adelina...
amazing!