The Missing Gold Olympic Medal

[Joesitz (RIP)]

There are so many skaters both male and female. Excellent skaters at that, who have not won a gold Oly. Considering the event happens so seldom - twice inn a decade - it's no wonder the difficulty in getting more than one in a lifetime.

However those who do not get the one, why is that brought out so much in posts especially when speaking of Kwan. The time to get one is limited.

I believe there is a personal loss for a skater who does not win one. I don't think it diminishes that skaters prowess in the Sport.

Do the fans who like to point out losses of Oly medals believe that winning one proves that the skater with the gold is the best skater for the next four years?

Think: Manley/Witt; Kerrigan/Baiul; Kwan/Lipinski; Slutskaya/Hughes; Cohen/Arakawa?

IMO, yes someone did win the medal, but if that's all there is, then let's keep on dancing. I mean posting.

By the way, will someone who wins it in 2010, negate the skating abilities of the others?

Joe

 

[attyfan]

...

Do the fans who like to point out losses of Oly medals believe that winning one proves that the skater with the gold is the best skater for the next four years?
...

Joe

First, I don't think that anyone thinks that the skater with the OGM is "the best skater for the next four years" (emphasis added); if anything, there is just a tendancy to think that the skater with the OGM was the best skater for the past four years.

Also, I think that the only person who really suffers from this treatment is Michelle Kwan -- no one minimizes Kurt Browning's contributions to the sport (for example), simply because he doesn't have an Olympic medal of any color, let alone an OGM.

Part of the problem, IMO, is that the OGM gets treated like a "lifetime achievement medal" (as opposed to who was best on that night), but when the judges give the medal on the basis of "lifetime achievement", everyone has a fuss about the judging!

I also think that this tendency to center everything on the OGM is one reason why pro skating is suffering in the US. After all, no one with any sense would want to live in a world where no mention is made of what they did accomplish, only of what they did not accomplish, so all the non-OGMs skating stars have every incentive to build new lives outside of skating entirely, rather than going pro where all they will hear is "no OGM". (I think this applies to Kerrigan, to a lesser extent, but primarily Kwan -- and Cohen seems to be planning an off-ice career also)

 

[dizzydi7]

The very fact that the olympic gold medal is only up for grabs once every four years makes it valuable. Therefore, any athlete of any sport, must be at the top of their game in that particular year and at that particular date. And, of course, luck plays a part as often it takes competitors to mess up to open the opportunity.

The truth is that for figureskating, the Olympics is just another world championship. It's the same skaters, the same programs---just a different location and a whole lot more hype.

The Olympics has more clout as the "whole" world supposedly is watching. For figureskating the exposure is greater because people who normally wouldn't watch a competition are giving their full attention to the sport. Apparently, figureskating is the most watched of all the winter olympic sports.

Kwan gets a lot of heat for her lack of an olympic medal because she is the most decorated skater of our time. It was expected that she would win an olympic gold medal. She also had three opportunities (the last she pulled out) to participate at the olympics (which she earned) but nevertheless is far more than most skaters. Personally, I have come to terms with the fact that Kwan did not skate her best at the Olympics. As disapointing as it was, she can only blame herself for her lackluster performances. I've gotten over it.

In my eyes, Kwan's lack of a gold medal does not diminish her greatness. However, people who don't or didn't like Kwan tend to make issue of the fact. Since I haven't been happy about the last three olympic gold medal winners, the olympic gold medal is taking on a rather tarnished view for me.

Come to think of it, I haven't been pleased with the last two world champions either. Guess I'm hard to please.

I still love the sport and will continue to be a fan.

Dizzy

 

[Tonichelle]

Maybe it's just me but I think in the case of Michelle she's the one that brought a lot of the 'gold medal pressure' on herself. She's made it very clear that the Olympic Gold was the be all end all of her career... so I think for a lot of naysayers it's just a way to 'rub it in her face.'

Whereas Kurt never got a medal at all, Michelle has a silver and bronze, but that's not enough... still gotta get that gold. She's not the only skater to do so, but she could have had just as much if not more of a career/legacy without chasing olympic gold... Kurt's contribution really started once he left olympic elligible competition. He grew as a skater and performer... and basically defined what professional skating was all about (more so, in some ways, than Scott Hamilton - who is kind of credited for the change in how pros did business)

For me, it's not about the medals or lack their of. I want to see great skating that I can feel a part of. That's why Michelle (and Johnny) don't appeal to me. It has nothing to do with a championship or a title.

 

[attyfan]

Maybe it's just me but I think in the case of Michelle she's the one that brought a lot of the 'gold medal pressure' on herself. She's made it very clear that the Olympic Gold was the be all end all of her career... so I think for a lot of naysayers it's just a way to 'rub it in her face.'

Whereas Kurt never got a medal at all, Michelle has a silver and bronze, but that's not enough... still gotta get that gold. She's not the only skater to do so, but she could have had just as much if not more of a career/legacy without chasing olympic gold...

How could Michelle have had her great legacy without chasing the OGM? To match her records requires a career of long duration -- her record tieing performances (9th Nat title, 5th world title, tieing for second on all time list) were both after SLC. IMO, if Michelle had retired any earlier (i.e., after winning her 9th title in US, but skipping Worlds), she would have been roundly criticized because her absence from 2005 Worlds would probably have cost the US a third spot in the ladies event.

 

[rain]

Whereas Kurt never got a medal at all, Michelle has a silver and bronze, but that's not enough... still gotta get that gold. She's not the only skater to do so, but she could have had just as much if not more of a career/legacy without chasing olympic gold... Kurt's contribution really started once he left olympic elligible competition. He grew as a skater and performer... and basically defined what professional skating was all about .

I disagree with this a little bit re: Kurt Browning. Yes, he's had a great professional career and has grown tremendously in those years. But he had an exceptional amateur career before that too, winning four world gold medals. No small feat. And his Casablanca program really marked, IMO, a benchmark in men's freeskating. But I do think that his enormously successful professional career — post two extremely disappointing tries at the Olympics — has helped to erase that Olympic failure more so than skaters, like Kwan, who never really had professional careers and so the last thing people remember is their amateur successes and failures.

I must note though, that I've never understood why people say Kwan is a lesser skater because she didn't win Olympics. To me, it's more of a blip. She's certainly the most outstanding ladies skater of her generation. Certainly moreso than the short-lived careers of either Hughes or Lipinski.

 

[Ladskater]

I don't think winning an Olympic Gold medal makes any skater better than any other skater. All the books I have read lately where skaters express their feelings on the Olympics say the Olympics are a weird experience to begin with. I think too much importance is placed on the Olympics - in all sports. It's only a two week period every four years. We are gearing up here in Vancouver/Whistler for the 2010 games and most British Columbians are worried we may get stuck with a huge tax bill to pay the games off once they are over and feel the money that is wasted on the Olympics could be put to better usage. We have a lot of homeless people here. Also our hospitals have a shortage of nurses and beds. We have expectant mothers having to go down to the States to give birth because of the shortage of beds in the hospitals. As one recent new mother who had to go to Seattle to give birth said "We can come up with money for the Olympics but not for hospitals in our own Province." There is something sadly wrong with that.

Sorry to get off the track here - no I don't think there is any shame in a skater's not coming home with the Gold Olympic medal. They are still great skaters no matter what.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Whereas Kurt never got a medal at all, Michelle has a silver and bronze, but that's not enough... still gotta get that gold. She's not the only skater to do so, but she could have had just as much if not more of a career/legacy without chasing olympic gold...

Poor Todd, Michael, Brian O, Nancy, Irina, Denise, Debbie, Sasha, et al Absolutely no legacy without that gold medal. Whatever medals they got or didn't get are just not enough. They should have chased for the gold.

Me thinks we need a definition of legacy.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

I believe that to a large extent the answer to this question will depend on the fate of the Olympic movement itself, especially the Winter Olympics. Already the whole flag-waving rah-rah specacle seems, well, rather Twentieth Century.

IMHO the Winter games is well on the road to becoming more or less an X-games lollapoluza, with some odd Scandanavian hobbies (skiing, snowshoeing, various types of sled racing, and the like) thrown in.

It is not entirely clear that the Olympics will be able to hold its place on the sports/entertainment A-list.

To me, that is figure skating's greatest dilemma. The sport continues to define itself in terms of the Olympics (and figure skating would lose money if it did not).

But if the Olympic ship sinks, will figure skating be left clinging forelornly to the mast?

 

[Mathman]

I also think that this tendency to center everything on the OGM is one reason why pro skating is suffering in the US. After all, no one with any sense would want to live in a world where no mention is made of what they did accomplish, only of what they did not accomplish, so all the non-OGMs skating stars have every incentive to build new lives outside of skating entirely, rather than going pro where all they will hear is "no OGM". (I think this applies to Kerrigan, to a lesser extent, but primarily Kwan -- and Cohen seems to be planning an off-ice career also)

That is such a perceptive observation. I can't read skaters' minds, of course, but your theory makes a lot of sense. Human nature is human nature.

On the other hand, Michelle always said, even as a child, that what she wanted to do was win everything in sight, then walk away. So maybe we don't have to do any deep pondering when we see her moving on in new directions.

 

[capcomop]

That is such a perceptive observation. I can't read skaters' minds, of course, but your theory makes a lot of sense. Human nature is human nature.

On the other hand, Michelle always said, even as a child, that what she wanted to do was win everything in sight, then walk away. So maybe we don't have to do any deep pondering when we see her moving on in new directions.

'Course hip surgery might have colored her choice of a new direction. And the girl ain't dead yet, she may skate again even as a pro.


There is a tendency to focus on the OGM yes but let's look at how that focus on that has worked out for tours with the ladies for examples. Oksana appeared to be one of Collins' nightmares. Tara did the same for SOI and Sarah lasted one lackluster tour.
At this point the tours are in dire straights and I think either one would pay real money for Kwan even without a an OGM given her name recognition! SOI seems to be banking on Cohen this tour. I'd bet any pro compeition that MIGHT land Kwan first will hype that beyond all reason and it will have NOTHING to do with an OGM.

 

[zephyrskates]

I think too much importance is placed on the Olympics - in all sports. It's only a two week period every four years. QUOTE]

that's what makes it special. as another poster said, the stars should pretty much align in your favor for that specific year, date and time for you to win an olympic gold medal. and sadly that did not happen for kwan.

still what makes turkey or ham special is that your mom (or dad, or grandma) makes it only twice a year (or once).

 

[anya_angie]

Poor Todd, Michael, Brian O, Nancy, Irina, Denise, Debbie, Sasha, et al Absolutely no legacy without that gold medal. Whatever medals they got or didn't get are just not enough. They should have chased for the gold.

Me thinks we need a definition of legacy.

Joe

Oh absolutely. Not just them but Alexander Abt for me, represents a quality of skating that is really hard to find, and it's sad that we hardly see him anymore. No promotion in the USA because he didn't win anything of real importance, save for one Nat'l Championship.

I agree that too much emphasis is placed on the Olympic Gold, but that is based on seeing non-skating fans react to skating at the Olympics as opposed to any other time. You look at the SLC scandal, would that have gotten HALF as much publicity as it did if it weren't the Olympics?

 

[attyfan]

...

I agree that too much emphasis is placed on the Olympic Gold, but that is based on seeing non-skating fans react to skating at the Olympics as opposed to any other time. You look at the SLC scandal, would that have gotten HALF as much publicity as it did if it weren't the Olympics?

I think, though, the nature of the scandal itself might affect the amount of publicity. I agree that the judging scandal at SLC would not have gotten publicity if it was not at Olys, there was another scandal, connected only to the ladies event at US Nats, that did get world wide publicity -- simply because judging scandals are not as newsworthy as whacks.

 

[Mathman]

I just hope that we are not living in the past. The Olympics used to be big. Now, not quite so much. Tomorrow?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Best thing, imo, for the Olympics is to let go of the nationalities. Bottom line is the old chestnut: Let the best man win Who cares what country has the most medals?

I was at the US Open last month a couple of times. Full of Amerians with no American players in some of the events. It didn't matter. Only good tennis mattered.

What we want is superior figure skating from wherever it comes.

Joe

 

[hockeyfan228]

What really bothers me about the Olympics is that it is a crap-shoot: who is healthy and who peaks once every four years, particuarly since figures were elminated. In my opinion, there's been too much at stake based on those odds.

Kwan might have had a better Olympic career had the Winter Olympics not been moved out two years; she was a stronger skater in 1996 and 2000 than in 1998 and 2002. I doubt that any of the pros would have reinstated if they had to wait until 1996.

The pseudo-professional aspect of eligible skating has destroyed any incentive for true pro competition. If Mathman is right about the devaluation of the Olympics, there really isn't much left, except more of a niche.

 

[mzheng]

Kurt Brownning
Michelle Kwan

Non has OGM. But their worlds record alone speaks itself. Both are my favorates. :yes:

 

[Tinymavy15]

First, I don't think that anyone thinks that the skater with the OGM is "the best skater for the next four years" (emphasis added); if anything, there is just a tendancy to think that the skater with the OGM was the best skater for the past four years.

yes tara wasn't the best skater after she won, nor sarah, nor oksana. they were the best skater that night. Winning an Olympic Gold has so much to do with timing and just plain old luck. Sure you have to train as if it's your only goal in life, but if there are 4 oither girls training at the same time with more raw talent, your chances are smaller. Then of course it's really only a matter of luck if you get injured or not, or your rivals do, sombody else falls, or some unkown has the skate of her life. You could do everything right and be the most talented skater in the world and never get a olympic medal just becasue certian things did not happen or did.

then of course there is the matter of peaking at the right time. Lets say that you come onto the senior scene the year after an olympic year. Let's say that you are 16/17. that of course would be the best time to try for that medal, but it has just passed. you were too young last year. By the time 4 years roll around injuries have taken thier toal and you aren't numebr one. A new little girl has taken the stage and the timing for her counld not be better. When you were born, when you started skating, when you allowed to beocme a senior are all factors.

 

[kandidy]

Compared to other sports, figure skate, especially female has very short period of time to stay "able" to go to olympics, same as gymnastics.
Most of skaters get 2-3 chances to go to olympics. I don't think Kwan, Cohen or Slutskaya are less famous and popular than Hughes, Lipinski or Arakawa .