The Olympic team event

[Violet Bliss]

I am almost sure, that Patrich Chan will do the same and skip the FS. For Team canada it interesting to see, if the pairs like D/R and/or MT/M have the lobby to share SP and FS because I think also V/M in dance could have the intention to skip one part of the team event (and avoid the clash with D/W).

Patrick Chan has expressed that he welcomes the opportunity to skate in the Team event both for Canada and for real on ice competition experiences before the individual event. If both V/M and D/W feel differently, I am pretty sure there would be a tacit understanding/agreement to abstain from the FD by both teams and their stand-ins are about equally competitive.

 

[SubRosa]

I think that skaters should go to Sochi prepared to skate for their country. Not to lay up in bed for two weeks saying, "Oh, I need rest," and waiting for the maid to come in and fluff the pillows.

This is particularly true of American and Canadian skaters who are headed to the Olympics, as they likely will not attend 4CC and thus have three and half weeks between the end of their nationals and the start of the Olympic team event. Not sure what skaters from the other 4CC countries will do, but I'd be surprised if Pang and Tong went to 4CC. How many more competitions can Tong possibly have in him?

I did an analysis similar to what Blades of Passion did, and what strikes me is the effect some of the non-contenders can have on the final results.

If S/S skate for Germany, that probably pushes Canada, China, Italy and the USA down a point in pairs. If they don't skate (and it seems that they won't, nor are they obligated), doesn't that put a bit more pressure on Russia? I'm sure it would make S/S very happy if Team Russia felt it needed V/T to skate the free program in order to secure the team gold.

If Spain is allowed to field a team (qualified in two events, plus one top-up skater, may allow Spain to compete in 3 of 4 events), then Fernandez would push down by one point the countries of any of the skaters he manages to beat. If Fernandez beats the American man in the short, the USA is down one point. Spain would probably finish dead last in dance and ladies, and not fielding a pairs entry, would push the Japanese pair up a point. So USA down one, Japan up one, and now the bronze medal race gets interesting.

If, on the other hand, Spain is not allowed or chooses not to compete, and Great Britain is the 10th entry, then GB may well push China down a point in dance, and maybe China doesn't make it to the final five, which impacts what happens in the free program. Also, it is likely GB would push Japan down a point in pairs, and then Japan is less likely to be vying for the podium, and so Japan subs in Suzuki to save Asada for the individual event, and Lipnitskaya wins the ladies free and Russia wins the team gold . . .

Blah blah blah, this is getting convoluted, too many what if's, it's making my head hurt, I'll stop now.

My point is, I think the battle between Russia and Canada will be very close, and, depending on whether Spain or Great Britain skate, the bronze medal may be close between the USA and Japan. It could be a matter of one point that separates gold from silver, bronze from fourth. That's not even considering which of China, France and Italy nab that fifth spot (and it would not surprise me at all if there is a tie for fifth after the shorts, and the tie-breaker needs to be applied) and how that affects who skates in the free.

I wonder how much of this event is going to be strategizing, and how much will be simply send the best you've got out there, and let the chips fall where they may. (And how much politics and/or home ice advantage?)

I can't decide if the team event is bogus or brilliant, but it should be a wild ride. Hopefully one that doesn't cast a pall on the rest of the events, or figure skating in general.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

If I were a national federation I would not send anyone who refused to skate for the national team.

That isn't really fair. If a skater sees the team event as a liability to their individual event chances, they should have the right to not compete -- especially if it's like S/S where Germany has no chance of medaling, let alone making the top 5 after the SP. Plenty of athletes in sports like athletics and swimming do not compete in relays because they would rather focus on individual events. Individual should be first, team should be second, IMO. The glory goes to individuals in elite figure skating. This team event is just for added interest. Nobody will ever speak of Hanyu/Takahashi/Asada winning their discipline in the team event, and will only care if they win/medal individually. I'm sure Kostner would rather have an individual bronze than a team 5th.

 

[Mathman]

^ A billion people watched the opening ceremonies of the 2008 summer Olympics in Beijing, as the athletes entered the stadium carrying their county's flag. This is more than watched any of the athletic contests.

Americans were thrilled when the Fab Five won the team gymnastics team event in the 2012 Olympics. It was also cool that Gabby Douglas won the individual all-around – but it would have been just as cool if Jordyn Wieber had.

Frankly, no, I do not think anyone really cares whether or not Yuzuru Hanyu wins a medal, except Hanyu and his family. But if Japan wins the first ever team gold medal, that will go down as a unique milestone in figure skating history.

 

[Mathman]

I can't decide if the team event is bogus or brilliant, but it should be a wild ride.

THIS! I can't wait.

 

[coppertop1]

That isn't really fair. If a skater sees the team event as a liability to their individual event chances, they should have the right to not compete -- especially if it's like S/S where Germany has no chance of medaling, let alone making the top 5 after the SP. Plenty of athletes in sports like athletics and swimming do not compete in relays because they would rather focus on individual events. Individual should be first, team should be second, IMO. The glory goes to individuals in elite figure skating. This team event is just for added interest. Nobody will ever speak of Hanyu/Takahashi/Asada winning their discipline in the team event, and will only care if they win/medal individually. I'm sure Kostner would rather have an individual bronze than a team 5th.

Agreed. They don't lie around in their bedrooms claiming to need to rest and fluffing up their pillows as someone accused them of! It's about strategy. Pair skaters, for example have four events in six days. They don't want to burn out before their main event. So they spread it out. Most athletes want an individual medal. If a gymnast wins team gold, do you think they're happy with just that? No, they want individual medals. Same with skaters. I'm sure Asada is aiming at gold in the ladies and not just in the team. If a country has skaters that are very much even (like Canada in pairs, for example), why shouldn't they take advantage. Same with Japan in the singles events and Russia in ladies.

I think who skates both depends on when the individual event is held. The pairs will likely only skate one program each to conserve their energy and also avoid energy, since their event is first in the skating and they want to be at their best. The ladies can get away with doing both programs in the team and individual sicne their event is the last of the skating events. A skater should have the right to decide what they want to do. It's not being lazy or being a team player.

 

[Mathman]

But then, too, look at is like this. Suppose it is nip and tuck between Russia and Canada for the gold medal. V&T pass up the long program, not to get their pillows fluffed but just to rest up. Canada takes first in the pairs LP and wins overall. Julia Lipnitskaia, I&K (short dance), B&S (free dance), Plushenko (SP), and Kovtun (LP) all lose their chance to win an Olympic gold medal. Well, maybe Plushenko doesn't mind, he already has one.

I know, I know. What do V&T care?

 

[mylastduchess]

Isn't it a bit crazy to let these skaters do both SP and LP twice in a two week period? Whatever I don't like the team event anyways it will give a free to some skaters who does not deserve it because of the work of others

 

[Krislite]

Isn't it a bit crazy to let these skaters do both SP and LP twice in a two week period? Whatever I don't like the team event anyways it will give a free to some skaters who does not deserve it because of the work of others

Not sure how much more exhausting it is for figure skaters to prepare for a competition, but it's not unusual for athletes in general to do multiple competitions in one Olympic Games. The swimmers, runners and team sports all do it.

Still, I do expect the top individual podium contenders will reserve their energy for the individual events, so Sochi might start off with a splat-fest figure skating competition.

 

[bigsisjiejie]

If I were a national federation I would not send anyone who refused to skate for the national team.

And I'm of the opposite opinion. Maybe I just find the entire idea of the Team figure skating event ridiculous and don't take it as seriously as you seem to. What I can't figure out is how seriously the USFSA takes it (and I mean outside the official press releases).

 

[rvi5]

...it will give a free to some skaters who does not deserve it because of the work of others

With any team event whether it is Figure Skating, Gymnastics, Hockey, swimming relays, team speed skating, etc. there will always be MVPs and lesser participants. The US women gymnastic team won the team Gold in 2012, but can you say every member of that team could have earned Olympic gold individually? If you removed one member of the team, or could replace them with just about anybody to fill the spot, would the team still have won? If so, then you may be correct. Someone didn't earn the medal because they may have been redundant. Otherwise, everyone was a necessary part of the "team". Contributing towards the final outcome. I don't think you can compare team Gold with individual Gold.

 

[Mathman]

Still, I do expect the top individual podium contenders will reserve their energy for the individual events,…

That's the part that I am having difficulty with. Is skating a 4 minute program so debilitating that that you can't recoup your energy level in six days?

And I'm of the opposite opinion. Maybe I just find the entire idea of the Team figure skating event ridiculous and don't take it as seriously as you seem to. What I can't figure out is how seriously the USFSA takes it (and I mean outside the official press releases).

Here is my prediction. The team event will attract a bigger television audience world-wide than any of the individual contests.

 

[LRK]

That's the part that I am having difficulty with. Is skating a 4 minute program so debilitating that that you can't recoup your energy level in six days?

I don't know the answer to that, nor do I pretend to... but considering that many don't seem to be able to recoup in time for Worlds'... (shrug)

 

[Mathman]

If both V/M and D/W feel differently, I am pretty sure there would be a tacit understanding/agreement to abstain from the FD by both teams and their stand-ins are about equally competitive.

I hope not. It cheats the public if the two teams conspire to hold out their star players.

Plus, if Virtue and Moir sit out that paves the way for Russia to get first in ice dance and win overall, beating Canada for the gold metal.

As for the USA. Weaver and Poje are better that the American number two. USA would lose by the exchange.

 

[bigsisjiejie]

T
Here is my prediction. The team event will attract a bigger television audience world-wide than any of the individual contests.

That may be true. But what are you trying to imply here and with your previous comment that national federations should not select athletes who refuse to participate in the Team event? That TV audience is the most important issue and that selection of athletes by their national federations should make TV ratings a selection criteria?

How do you reconcile this with your previous frequent pronouncements about USA Nationals, that the strict order of finish (mathmatically) should be the only determinant of Olympic/Worlds berths? What happens if USA Nationals finishers (pick any discipline) #1 and #2 decline to participate in the Team event? If you were the USFSA would you bounce them off the team in favor of #3 and #4? Send four burly men to their homes to make them an offer they can't refuse? You can't have it all ways...

IMO, compelling athletes to participate against their will in what is a poor format-constructed event that smacks of cheesefestism, is not a good idea.

 

[ice coverage]

... I think also V/M in dance could have the intention to skip one part of the team event (and avoid the clash with D/W).

Patrick Chan has expressed that he welcomes the opportunity to skate in the Team event both for Canada and for real on ice competition experiences before the individual event. If both V/M and D/W feel differently, I am pretty sure there would be a tacit understanding/agreement to abstain from the FD by both teams and their stand-ins are about equally competitive.

I hope not. It cheats the public if the two teams conspire to hold out their star players.

Plus, if Virtue and Moir sit out that paves the way for Russia to get first in ice dance and win overall, beating Canada for the gold metal.

As for the USA. Weaver and Poje are better that the American number two. USA would lose by the exchange.

Sorry that I am not up to date on every post in this thread. But will jump in here and add my two cents:

I am 99% sure that both Virtue/Moir and Davis/White also have said that they welcome the opportunity to compete for team medals.
If either federation assigns its top couple to only one of the two team dances, I highly doubt that the reason would be fear of the other couple.​

 

[jenaj]

THIS! I can't wait.

I'm excited about the team event because it gives us more skating to watch. It also gives more skaters chances for medals.

 

[Violet Bliss]

I'm excited about the team event because it gives us more skating to watch. It also gives more skaters chances for medals.

My feelings as well and it seems at least some skaters concur.

 

[ucrgirl]

That's the part that I am having difficulty with. Is skating a 4 minute program so debilitating that that you can't recoup your energy level in six days?

I always thought it would be emotionally difficult. So many top skaters struggle to produce an OLYMPIC LP that is a worthy reflection of their talant. It seems hard to do it twice in one Olympics.

 

[Coriana]

Yes, Scott Moir said in an interview that they would skate both programmes in the team event, and Patrick said he was eager to, though it would have to be discussed with the Federation and the coaches. If there's a close contest at Nationals between first and second for either the short or long programme, another single skater or, more likely, team, might be given an opportunity.