TT choreographed both MK's LP and a new SP

[Mathman]

Easier said than done, however.

 

[R.D.]

Easier said than done, however.

Very true.

But I believe if anyone should be able to do this, if they really work hard enough, is MK. After 05 Nats though I don't have my hopes up. She was still very tentative with the pressure of 9 titles on her. I have to conclude that she would be very lucky to win with that performance at the Olys- that performance at many other competitions wouldn't have won them.

 

[millie]

CBC Sports replayed the 2005 Worlds last evening. Watching Irina's and Michelle's skate, In my opinion, Michelle is going have to come a long way inorder to catch Irina this year. If Irina's adds a few new tricks to her program this year, she is going to be hard to beat. Although TT is working with Michelle, that's only half the battle, she also is going to have the goods to go with it. Probably she will, only time will tell.

Happy skating.

 

[NansXOXOX]

Some excellent points raised to which I don't have to repeat them

The only thing I hope for in this season for Michelle is to not depend on the other skater's mistakes because it may well end up that someone does skate better than her. To ensure this of course, she has to not only be consistent but both technically and artistically challenge everyone in order to be a major contender.

I, too, hope Michelle understands this and if, for some reason she doesn’t, the people around her do and repeat it to her as often as possible until she DOES understand it.

Michelle needs to come out all season long with both barrels blazing and push everyone at every competition she is in. I would love to see her kick some major a$$ at the Olympics and take the top step of the podium for purely personal reasons that have nothing to do with who I would "like" to see win. There are several skaters I would be happy to see on the top of that podium, but think of what a human interest story this would make in the US. Journalists would be falling all over themselves to be the first to publish a by-line with the title "Third Time's a Charm." This might very well be the push that would revitalize interest in figure skating in the US and pull skating off cable channels and back to the major networks and renewed interest and air time in the US cannot harm, and may even help increase, television time elsewhere.

Anything that would increase interest in skating for the general population, increase television air time or result in more shows and even fluff competitions for all the other skaters would make me happy, and a win by Michelle has the potential of doing that.

I can dream, can't I?

Nan

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

all[/B] the other skaters would make me happy, and a win by Michelle has the potential of doing that.I can dream, can't I? Nan

Good point. Michelle creates a bit of journalism before a competition and this could well bring in more viewers if it is written up well. they should play up the concept will she go out with a BANG or with a wimper?

Joe

 

[antmanb]

...and hopefully she KNOWS this, and will try to work around it. If there's one thing that's really gotten her, it's being conservative when at least one other skater decides to go all out. It happened to her TWICE at the Olympics.

I know i do start sounding like broken recrod, but as long as this statement is made i will constantly reply to it. I don't think she played conservative in Nagano - she didn't scale anything back - she hit every element and went as all out as she could go. The presentation wasn't as exquisite as it had been at nationals and that was all. If you take away the nationals program, the nagano skate of it was fantastic, amazing and the the best she did it, all that happened in Nagano is that someone skated that little bit better.

Ant

 

[Mathman]

I totally agree with Antman. And I would also say that Michelle was not tentative at Salt Lake City, either. She went for her triple-triple, but wasn't able to pull it off, then she fell on her flip and took herself out of the game. But it wasn't because of timidity. Even then, in the second half of the program she gave it her all and didn't give up.

MM

 

[antmanb]

I totally agree with Antman. And I would also say that Michelle was not tentative at Salt Lake City, either. She went for her triple-triple, but wasn't able to pull it off, then she fell on her flip and took herself out of the game. But it wasn't because of timidity. Even then, in the second half of the program she gave it her all and didn't give up.

MM

I'm totally with you on taht too MM - i had written a paragraph to that effect in the original post but decided to delete it. The mistakes in the SLC are what took away from that program, the second half, as you say was michelle on top form.

Ant

 

[R.D.]

Well, whether you think she was tentative or not, one thing's clear to me: she better step up her game (and perform her ABSOLUTE best) or she's not winning Olys- period.

Yes, she gave a respectable performance in 1998. She might have been able to win had she skated like that in SLC (since Sarah was in 4th in the short). But IIRC I think it was lacking that oomph that the Nats performance had. So she was beatable, and someone (Tara) rose to the challenge.

SLC is obvious- she fell and undid herself there. I won't go any further because this scenario has been beaten over and over again to death.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

antmanb - I don't think she skated her best in Nagano. She skated beautifully as usual but she was the first to skate (always a bad position for her) and she held back just enough to skate perfectly which she did. BUT

Little Miss No Edges skated with a lot of pizzazz with a beautiful spiral on the flat down the diagonal of the arena, and she actually completed her consecutive loop jumps although the second one landed in a dead stop, she couldn't stop smiling and the roar of the crowd got her moving with delight. Ya had to give it to Patricia's daughter under the 6.0 system.

Although Michelle skated her very best in DC Worlds, she refused to up the technical level even to the point where in Moscow (2 Worlds later) she looked surprise at the technical scores and their influence on the PCS scores. Well, we live and learn, don't we.

One 3x3, imo won't do it but it is better than none. She's up against a determined Hi Technical skater!!! (Not unlike Tara!)

Joe

 

[R.D.]

Little Miss No Edges skated with a lot of pizzazz with a beautiful spiral on the flat down the diagonal of the arena, and she actually completed her consecutive loop jumps although the second one landed in a dead stop, she couldn't stop smiling and the roar of the crowd got her moving with delight. Ya had to give it to Patricia's daughter under the 6.0 system.

I'm curious about your choice of words at the end- "under the 6.0 system." Does this mean that you would have given it to MK instead under the Cop? (Just curious. Maybe you didn't mean to put it like that.)

P.S. I'm also curious about you referring to Tara as Little Miss No Edges, but that's another story. Never mind that.

Although Michelle skated her very best in DC Worlds, she refused to up the technical level even to the point where in Moscow (2 Worlds later) she looked surprise at the technical scores and their influence on the PCS scores. Well, we live and learn, don't we.

EXACTLY. ITA. Couldn't have said it better myself. :agree:

 

[Piel]

Although Michelle skated her very best in DC Worlds, she refused to up the technical level even to the point where in Moscow (2 Worlds later) she looked surprise at the technical scores and their influence on the PCS scores. Well, we live and learn, don't we.


Joe

This kind of statement suggests that Kwan did not try to increase her technical level. I disagree. It seems that every skater takes the ice with the intent to skate the best program they are are physically capable of. I really think Kwan wants to land those 3/3 as much as Cohen would like to not fall and Irina would like to maintain a nice straight leg line in her spirals. Skaters can train and have the desire to improve but if their body won't, they can't. I don't think any athlete who has made it to this level gets there just by luck. These gals work HARD! I'm sure as much as we fans would like our favorites to do well the skaters want that even more.

 

[soogar]

Little Miss No Edges skated with a lot of pizzazz with a beautiful spiral on the flat down the diagonal of the arena, and she actually completed her consecutive loop jumps although the second one landed in a dead stop, she couldn't stop smiling and the roar of the crowd got her moving with delight. Ya had to give it to Patricia's daughter under the 6.0 system.

(Not unlike Tara!)

Joe

Tara had deep edges and strong stroking. She couldn't skate with so much speed if she didn't have edges. Tara would have won under any system because she would've done anything to win. If doing 10,000 Biellmans and landing 3-3-3 combos was going to get Tara a gold medal, she would have done it.

 

[mzheng]

Tara had deep edges and strong stroking. She couldn't skate with so much speed if she didn't have edges. Tara would have won under any system because she would've done anything to win. If doing 10,000 Biellmans and landing 3-3-3 combos was going to get Tara a gold medal, she would have done it.

Unfortunately she only proved she could win only in 6.0. There is no way to tell if she really would try " If doing 10,000 Biellmans and landing 3-3-3 combos was going to get Tara a gold medal, she would have done it" under the CoP. Given her current hip condition and the ever changed stories from her camp; I doubt she'll try 3/3/3 to trade her hip for the OGM if gives another chance.

 

[R.D.]

Unfortunately she only proved she could win only in 6.0. There is no way to tell if she really would try " If doing 10,000 Biellmans and landing 3-3-3 combos was going to get Tara a gold medal, she would have done it" under the CoP. Given her current hip condition and the ever changed stories I doubt she'll try 3/3/3 if gives the chance.

The newfound discussion of Tara in the 6.0 system vs. Cop prompts me to ask this question:

The system used in 1998 in determining the winner of a figure skating competition was the 6.0 system. Now, the system used in determining the winner of a figure skating competition is Cop, or NJS. So Tara won in 1998 under 6.0. Nobody even dreamed the system would change back then. So now to my question- why is this an issue? I hardly think a new standard would be any reason to question Tara's win or to raise doubts. JMO. I realize that we may not be going in this direction yet, but it sure seems like it to me.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I'm curious about your choice of words at the end- "under the 6.0 system." Does this mean that you would have given it to MK instead under the Cop? (Just curious. Maybe you didn't mean to put it like that.)

P.S. I'm also curious about you referring to Tara as Little Miss No Edges, but that's another story. Never mind that.



EXACTLY. ITA. Couldn't have said it better myself. :agree:

You couldn't have ever said it any which way. You wait for others to slight Michelle so you can agree. You just don't know figure skating. Am I correct?

On another thread you said you saw the Nagano skate on TV? and you didn't see much, I guess. Your question is out of context with what follows.

Joe

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Tara had deep edges and strong stroking. She couldn't skate with so much speed if she didn't have edges. Tara would have won under any system because she would've done anything to win. If doing 10,000 Biellmans and landing 3-3-3 combos was going to get Tara a gold medal, she would have done it.

Sorry Soogar. For me she had no edges. I was a former roller skater like she was and turned to ice and learning the difference in edging is tremendous work and if you do not concentrate on it you laspse back into rollers and that's a no no.

Check your tape of the Tara skate. She flats the spiral because she can not hold it on the curve. Her footwork was a two footed zig zag down the arena. Her flutz was famous. Her jumps were tiny. I'm surprised they weren't higher because on rollers one has a lot a weight to drag around. On the plus side she had good spins (spinning is easier on ice than rollers) , she also played up the little girl bubbly style which everyone loves (except me).

I respect your views Soogar, but on this we have to agree to disagree. Still I do not say she should not have won. If I were judging I probably would also have given her the nod begrudgingly but I would. That's the way 6.0 system was.

Had the hips not have been a problem, I think she would have become a really great skater. Her edges improved in SOI, and Lori Nichols gave her a more mature look for that number she skated to in honor of her mother.

I do feel sad for her skating career. I think Michelle took much of the glory away from her aside from the hip problem.

Joe

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

The newfound discussion of Tara in the 6.0 system vs. Cop prompts me to ask this question:

The system used in 1998 in determining the winner of a figure skating competition was the 6.0 system. Now, the system used in determining the winner of a figure skating competition is Cop, or NJS. So Tara won in 1998 under 6.0. Nobody even dreamed the system would change back then. So now to my question- why is this an issue? I hardly think a new standard would be any reason to question Tara's win or to raise doubts. JMO. I realize that we may not be going in this direction yet, but it sure seems like it to me.

Well, at least you are asking for learning knowledge.
No it is not going in that direction. Stick with your learning question.

Joe

 

[R.D.]

You couldn't have ever said it any which way. You wait for others to slight Michelle so you can agree. You just don't know figure skating. Am I correct?

I wonder how many posters get asked this whenever they agree with somebody.

Now what do you mean by "knowing" figure skating? That's ambiguous. Do you mean being familiar with all the skaters? Being able to identify all the jumps and moves? Being able to break down the Cop to a crumb? Some posters can do some and not others. And of course some are "experts".

Now I will say that in terms of identifying jumps and breaking down scoring, yes I know nothing about that. But let me ask you this- does that make me any less of a "fan", or "non-fan", that I can't do this? Can EVERY skating fan do the above? I doubt it.

What I do know is much more than your average "once-in-4-years skating fans." 4 years ago I was one of those people. Now through the forums I've heard of people that even casual fans are unaware of. I've learned a LOT from you guys. So in a sense you're right. It is a learning process for me but I wouldn't post about anything I don't know about or at least don't have SOME background info on. And if I don't know about something, I don't hesitate to ask.

Since you're so quick to point out that I "know nothing about FS", would you care to teach me about it so I do "know"? :sheesh:

Last point- you said "slighting Michelle". Funny you didn't use the word criticize...I suppose since it concerns me this time it turns into a slight- go figure... :scowl:

Well, no one is asking you to read my posts. If you are going to discount what I have to say by pointing out my "ignorance" so be it- I don't care about that. But I think I should at least be able to express my thoughts out loud. If you don't like my "analyses" then don't read them.

 

[R.D.]

Well, at least you are asking for learning knowledge.
No it is not going in that direction. Stick with your learning question.

Joe

Once again I post my opinion. If you don't like it don't pay attention to it.

(P.S. I'm still curious about why you said the "6.0 system".)