Unlikely age limits will change much?

[Sam-Skwantch]

. Remember years ago the TV show Doogie Hauser, MD

Lol!!

I was very young looking in my teens and earned the nickname Doogie. I had to go back and look up the show to know why my parents friends kept calling me Doogie. My older sister went as far as to learn the theme song on piano just to torture me :curse:

To this day I will still respond to Doogie and there are people who call me it

 

[andromache]

I don't think it's fair to push kids to do things they're not passionate about. If it's their initiative and skating is what they want to do, then why not let them skate and do school if the parents can afford it? why force them to try things they're not interested in at the expense of their skating?

It's often difficult to separate what the child might want from what the parent might want. There are a lot of parents out there that put such pressure on their kid that it is actually damaging. And the kid just goes along with it to make their parent happy.

There are labor laws to prevent children from being exploited by companies (or by their parents) for $$$$. These laws don't apply to "amateur" endeavors and it'd be impossible to actually legally regulate something like that. So idk. But I do think there needs to be further efforts to protect child athletes. Pushing child athletes to compete against adults seems like it could be part of the problem.

 

[concorde]

It's often difficult to separate what the child might want from what the parent might want. There are a lot of parents out there that put such pressure on their kid that it is actually damaging. And the kid just goes along with it to make their parent happy.

There are labor laws to prevent children from being exploited by companies (or by their parents) for $$$$. These laws don't apply to "amateur" endeavors and it'd be impossible to actually legally regulate something like that. So idk. But I do think there needs to be further efforts to protect child athletes. Pushing child athletes to compete against adults seems like it could be part of the problem.

Sometimes the child actually drives the decision!

Driven kids will push themselves hard in whatever they are passionate about - academics and/or sports. I used to take the view that college should come first and then the pro years. For some that is the right choice and for other the reverse is true. It should be left up to the individual to evaluate.

I have a daughter that skates. For a variety of reasons, I hope she does not skate seriously until she is 30. My view is she should enjoy her skating now when she is in school and then later move into her next chapter of life.

Serious skating is only for the young.

 

[moriel]

Sometimes the child actually drives the decision!

Driven kids will push themselves hard in whatever they are passionate about - academics and/or sports. I used to take the view that college should come first and then the pro years. For some that is the right choice and for other the reverse is true. It should be left up to the individual to evaluate.

I have a daughter that skates. For a variety of reasons, I hope she does not skate seriously until she is 30. My view is she should enjoy her skating now when she is in school and then later move into her next chapter of life.

Serious skating is only for the young.

As for driven kids, Sasha Trusova is a good example. "If everybody jumps quads by then, i'll jump quints"

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Sometimes the child actually drives the decision!.

It seems like everyday a new kid comes out of the woodwork that is on a whole different level we knew could be achieved. Sky Brown is an incredibly driven girl who just turned ten and has traveled all over the world with the goal of teaching kids that they can do anything they want to do and to create charity and donations for underprivileged/undereducated kids! It’s her dream and her parants support it but I believe it’s her that is pushing for it. The travel, the dangerous tricks, the journey.

She is however too young to compete at X-Games and the Olympics and other major events like Dew Tour/ SLS but nothing has stopped her from achieving her goals...and those goals come with danger!

Age restrictions are not restricting her training

What is unfortunate is that for figure skaters the ability to grab a sponsor at such a young age and build a career before or even without competitions is impossible. The only way for them to see success of substantial level is via competitions. If Junior events had better sponsors and prize money where skaters could support their efforts and provide more opportunity it would make sense for them to stay junior. Heck...increase how long the can stay there and reward them for their efforts and I let stay down there longer. Works for me...I actually am starting to prefer JGP on every level conceivable. It’s not like it’s cheaper to train as s junior vs senior. Until juniors are equal to senior events with prize and prestige there will always be a rush to go senior.

 

[andromache]

Serious skating is only for the young.

This is not the case for almost any other sport. Not even other disciplines within figure skating - ice dance, men, and pairs all skew older.

 

[concorde]

This is not the case for almost any other sport. Not even other disciplines within figure skating - ice dance, men, and pairs all skew older.

I am in my early 50s. No way would even try to skate at the same level as my daughter. I am not that insane. Also, my body does not heal as fast as hers.

Personally I think Plusenko had the injuries he had because he chose to skate too long. As greedy fans we encouraged it to some extent.

I think a body can only take that toll for so long. When you start skating will probably factor into how long you can go. Many elite skaters start when they are under 5 and pound away year after year. Extending a career only extends the toll on one's body.

 

[el henry]

Well, the 85th thread on this issue, and I tried to stay away, I did, but I can't....

I need 12 steps for the "age thread". But I do like seeing both sides presented. I believe there should be a higher age limitation for seniors than there is now. I am not certain exactly what age that should be. I base my opinion on the fact that I think it is healthier for the child. And to address the other points:

1. You have no proof it's unhealthy: well, yes I do, which I have posted in other threads. And I am too lazy to go back and look them up. Usually I then hear well, nothing reproted about 13 year olds doing quads. Well. duh, no one cares enough about figure skating to do that, so of course the reports/studies are from other sports. Totally reasonable to extrapolate, and I do, and I stand by it.

2. They're going to do it anyway: I'm sorry, to me this makes no sense. Starting from the base of "It's unhealthy", I should accept as a reason that a teen is going to engage in unhealthy behaviors anyway????? And if you think it's healthy, it doesn't matter. Why use this argument with someone who thinks it's unhealthy? :scratch3:

3. The young teens are passionate: I am all for "following your heart". I am also all for adults saying "Follow your heart, but here and no further, because I'm the adult in the room and I know better". Now sometimes the adult in the room is also caught up in the passion, and that is *not* a good combo, but I am assuming they will not be.

4. You're prejudiced against a particular country: Horse manure. I've posted on this board a fair amount, show me where I have manifested any prejudice on this issue. The mere fact that I hold this position is not prejudice.

5. It's a sport and this is progress: Not if it compromises health. I know from sports. But I do *not* want young teens following the mantra of my man Brandon Brooks from the Eagles (warning NSFW): (ETA: regarding this Sunday's game)

https://twitter.com/bbrooks_79/status/1043974160052097024

One thing for a grown man to say. Another for adults to say about a growing teen.

My name is El, and I am addicted to these threads

 

[andromache]

I am in my early 50s. No way would even try to skate at the same level as my daughter. I am not that insane. Also, my body does not heal as fast as hers.

Personally I think Plusenko had the injuries he had because he chose to skate too long. As greedy fans we encouraged it to some extent.

I think a body can only take that toll for so long. When you start skating will probably factor into how long you can go. Many elite skaters start when they are under 5 and pound away year after year. Extending a career only extends the toll on one's body.

I'm not suggesting that someone should be able to compete in an elite sport for their entire life. However, it would be very odd for children to be significantly more successful at an elite sport than adults. This is not yet the case for ladies' skating, but it's possible.

 

[Charlotte 71]

I think revising judging to further reward Quality on technical elements and skating skills (e.g., the +/- 5 on jumps is a good development, I think) - and then judging the components more fairly and objectively and keeping the age at 15 or maybe lowering it to 14 would best serve the purposes of giving very good, very young skaters the opportunity gain experience early (look at Kwan, Hughes and Lipinski), while also protecting the sport from descending into a jumping bean fest. Older skaters have more speed, power and artistry - in general. Some younger skaters have it too. We want the best skater to win, not the best jumper, unless he or she also happens to be the best skater. Even in a best or worst case scenario, depending on your perspective - if Trusova, Kostornaia and Shcherbakova were allowed to compete senior and beat Medvedeva, Zagitova and Sotskova at Nationals and were named to the World team, what would happen at Worlds? Japanese, Canadian and maybe European and Korean women are capable of beating them on technical quality and skating skills, especially if inexperience comes into play. I wouldn't count any of them out, but I wouldn't count any of them in either. But two or three years from now, assuming they make it through puberty with their jumps, any of the three could be much better skaters for having had an early start, same as we saw with Kwan, Hughes, Lipinski. Do we really want to deny a decade-long reign of Trusova the Great, if that is in the cards? The best thing we can do for the sport is work to ensure that judging values beauty, power, speed, artistry, energy, presence and performance, and keep jumps to their appropriate part of the equation - if we do that, I have faith that the jumping bean issue will work itself out.

 

[concorde]

My skater is not an elite skater.
As her coach likes to point out, she only has above average skating skills. Even at that, Icould never hope to be as good as she is. If I tried, I would leave the rink in an ambulance.

Which makes me realize another interesting point in favor of youth. The young feel they are invincible which allows then to try new things. As people age, they no longer are as apt to try new things for fear of getting hurt (real or perceived). For any sport to move forward, you need that youthful mentality. Without out it, we could still be looking at single jumps and I really like those big exciting jumps.

 

[andromache]

Which makes me realize another interesting point in favor of youth. The young feel they are invincible which allows then to try new things. As people age, they no longer are as apt to try new things for fear of getting hurt (real or perceived). For any sport to move forward, you need that youthful mentality. Without out it, we could still be looking at single jumps and I really like those big exciting jumps.

Weird that pairs and mens' disciplines continue to progress technically in spite of a general lack of actual children as champions.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Weird that pairs and mens' disciplines continue to progress technically in spite of a general lack of actual children as champions.

But they have played a part in its history

https://youtu.be/0B0tSnQKzwo

GOAT status

 

[andromache]

But they have played a part in its history

https://youtu.be/0B0tSnQKzwo

GOAT status

And they were able to repeat that victory 8 years later!

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

and they were able to repeat that victory 8 years later!

goat!!

 

[DaNiCG]

sooo this age thing is only a problem in the ladies field, I wonder why

 

[el henry]

sooo this age thing is only a problem in the ladies field, I wonder why

Not from me, I have advocated age limits for boys as well as girls. From all countries. Perfectly fair, applied to all.

I wonder why you would say that when at least one person has advocated for all countries and all genders to be subject to the same restrictions :confused2:

 

[concorde]

The bodies of males and females physically mature at different rates.

According to familydoctor.org most girls are physically mature by about 14 years of age. Boys mature at about 15 or 16.

So about 1-2 year difference between the two sexes become physically mature.

Clearly we have different opinions on this matter.
I think the current age limit is fine. I would not be opposed to pushing it up another year but more that that, I think the ladies sport would suffer.

 

[DaNiCG]

Biologically speaking, male and female bodies develop different, females tend to develop hips, breasts, etc Male body does not, but they grow more, and they have more muscles than ladies. We all know hips play an important factor in FS. They both have growth spurt, so theres that. Evolution make us this way, so if you feel offended about this fight with her (Saying this cause Ive being in arguments when I mention this before)

IMO I dont care about the issue anymore, just that it should be fair in all disciplines IF a change happen. But its interesting seeing how people behave with this. In my observations Most fans who complain about the whole age limit are from the ladies field, Key word "Most" and guess fans of who? yeah. So its interesting

 

[andromache]

I just again want to say that I’m not necessarily in favor of increasing the age limit. But there are a lot of issues to consider if an elite sport is going to be dominated by children and they’re worth talking about.