Wagner's world medal and her legacy

[drivingmissdaisy]

If 'legacy' means being remembered across many nationalities among many people for decades and being counted among the all-time greats like Katerina Witt, Torvill and Dean, Gordieva and Grinkov, and so on, Ashley's not going to have a legacy, probably, even if she does win a World medal. By this definition though an extremely small number of skaters have legacies, and the only two women from the past 10 ish years who I am absolutely certain will have one are Yuna and Mao.

If legacy means simply having a good number of fans and being remembered by your fans after you're done skating for a very long time, then sure of course, Ashley will have one. Her longevity in the sport alone assures this. By this definition, a lot of skaters actually have legacies, being remembered fondly by some people for a very very long time after they are done. By this definition countless ladies currently competing will have one, including skaters like Nagasu who overall have had way less impressive careers than Ashley.

ITA with this. A world bronze or silver isn't going to make much of a difference to her legacy. She is a very good skater in a weak era for American women. A world title would, obviously, change that considerably but Ashley would have to beat a lot of skaters who are artistically on par with her, but technically more solid than she is. A scenario in which Ashley skates two perfect programs and all of Gracie, Mao, Satoko, Evgenia, Elena, and Anna make major errors is hard for me to imagine.

 

[karlowens2]

ITA with this. A world bronze or silver isn't going to make much of a difference to her legacy. She is a very good skater in a weak era for American women. A world title would, obviously, change that considerably but Ashley would have to beat a lot of skaters who are artistically on par with her, but technically more solid than she is. A scenario in which Ashley skates two perfect programs and all of Gracie, Mao, Satoko, Evgenia, Elena, and Anna make major errors is hard for me to imagine.

Did anyone notice she got the highest element score at US Nationals. Her 3L-l-3S got 12 points.

 

[Mathman]

So I've thought about this more, and decided it flat out depends what is meant by 'legacy'.

So true. A "legacy" could also mean that you changed the sport in some significant way, like Elaine Zayak. Or it could mean that younger skaters look up to you and say, "I want to skate like her." Or you can work your way into the public consciousness as a stand-in for figure skating itself.

In the U.S. we see lots of announcements like, "Come to the grand opening of the new public ice rink and release your inner Michelle Kwan!"

(We also see tweets like, "Michelle, you were my favorite skater; why did you betray me by working for that no good Hillary Clinton." )

 

[solani]

(We also see tweets like, "Michelle, you were my favorite skater; why did you betray me by working for that no good Hillary Clinton." )

Oh my god? Really?

 

[FlattFan]

So true. A "legacy" could also mean that you changed the sport in some significant way, like Elaine Zayak. Or it could mean that younger skaters look up to you and say, "I want to skate like her." Or you can work your way into the public consciousness as a stand-in for figure skating itself.

In the U.S. we see lots of announcements like, "Come to the grand opening of the new public ice rink and release your inner Michelle Kwan!"

(We also see tweets like, "Michelle, you were my favorite skater; why did you betray me by working for that no good Hillary Clinton." )

We also see tweets like, "Ashley, you stole Mirai's spot at the Olympics" Oh wait.

 

[mrrice]

We also see tweets like, "Ashley, you stole Mirai's spot at the Olympics" Oh wait.

oooooohhhhhhhhhhh. FlattFan........Daaannnnngggg. Wasn't Ashley picked by a committee?

 

[gimble]

Among all active skaters, she is probably the one who joined the most. Every year, she puts her heart out there. She was quite close a few times.

Hopefully, she gets one soon. And hopefully, she gets one before Gracie.

As for "legacy", all of them are just as good as their last winning performance. In 5 years time, Yuna will practically be irrelevant except to die-hard Koreans who will insist on naming her in every thread or Youtube videos to make everyone remember how "great" she truly was.

To me, the legacy of any skater, past and present, is not necessarily his/her last wining performance.

Kwan's 1998 non-winning nagano skates are just as memorable and precious to me as Butyrskaya's world winning skate (I was really excited about her Otonal program).
Kwan's legacy isn't just her medal performances either.

Surely Ruh's spins are memorable and she is remembered what a great spinner she was?

Even though I didn't watch every skating competition, there are many I remember even 20 years after I watched them.

Of course a skater and his/her programs would be more memorable to the people of the same country or to the fans but I doubt that only Swiss fans would remember Ruh or only Korean fans would remember Kim.

 

[mrrice]

Surely Ruh's spins are memorable and she is remembered what a great spinner she was?

This quote is a perfect example of how you don't need to be World Championship to leave a legacy. I was fortunate enough to see Lucinda Ruh live at Worlds in 1999. She was spectacular and was only overshadowed by Maria Butyrskaya's Hall Of Fame worthy, Otonol LP.

Did "Charlotte" for whom the spiral was named, ever win a World or Olympic Medal? I have no idea and it wouldn't matter if she didn't. Her Spiral has managed to live on through other skater's and that's her Legacy. I don't think it has to be about Medals......Though they help.

 

[b-man]

http://www.bambootrading.com/300/a331.jpg

About Ashley, here is the list of all ladies who won the U.S. championship three times or more since 1950: Tenley Albright, Carol Heiss, Janet Lynn, Dorothy Hamill, Linda Fratianne, Rosalynn Sumners, Jill Trenary, Michelle Kwan … and Ashley Wagner.

You left out Peggy, 5 US championships, 3 world golds and the OGM.

 

[mrrice]

You left out Peggy, 5 US championships, 3 world golds and the OGM.

Peggy was also one of the most successful Pro Skaters of all time. How old was Peggy when she retired from competing? I remember seeing her announcement and she seemed quite young. I remember it was in Black and White so it must have been a loooooong time ago.

 

[Sugarpova]

well imo Ash will be remembered as a great performer anyway
Idk about the LEGACY

 

[NanaPat]

I think a legacy involves a combination of longevity and success. If you compare Ashley with Lipinksy and Hughes, she had much greater longevity and much greater national success, though less international success. I would consider her as having more of a legacy. I respect longevity, and tend to be suspicious of "one-hit wonders". The "win an Olympic medal and cash in" mentality doesn't do much for me, I'm afraid. Ashley may not have won a world medal, but I believe she kept placing high enough to earn world spots, year after year. Imagine the gnashing of teeth if the US had only one ladies spot at worlds!

Then again, just longevity is not enough. As a Canadian, I hope our ladies will not emulate Jennifer "two-foot" Robinson, though she was around for a long time.

 

[Mathman]

Did "Charlotte" for whom the spiral was named, ever win a World or Olympic Medal?

No. Charlotte Oelschagel was a professional show skater. She never competed.

 

[temadd]

I think Ashley, regardless of what she does going forward, will be remembered as a gifted performer. No other skater has the ability to grab an audience from start to finish like she does. Even when the jumps don't work, I am left wanting more. Dare I say for fear of being attacked that I think her performance ability is better than Michelle Kwan?

That being said, I hope she hits her all of her jumps at Worlds and gets rewarded

 

[yuzushenko]

i think those know her will always remember her no matter what. that being said ive been a skating fan for probably 2 years lol and the other skaters i know of have been olympic medalists or what not, so i dont know how future generations will remember ashley. unfortunately i dont think future generations will remember her as well because i feel that gracie has eclipsed her in the marketing. gracie gold is the blonde/american looking sweetheart with the cute name and Gold last name. people who perhaps casually watch other olympic sports will probably hear of gracie gold and remember her name more than the name ashley wagner unless she wins a medal or something.

though that sochi face was quite priceless. but memes come and go.

idk. i will remember her, because im growing up watching her. but idk about when it's been years since she's competed and if other skaters or people ever mention her. hopefully.

 

[ice coverage]

.. gracie gold is the blonde/american looking sweetheart ...

"American looking" :dev2:??? Blondeness certainly does not make someone more American than anyone else. Or more "American-looking" :ddevil: (whatever the heck that means).

In any case, Ashley's looks are very attractive (no less so than Gracie's).

And Ashley's personality also is very appealing and marketable (more so than Gracie's, if you ask me).

Exhibit A: https://twitter.com/Worlds2016/status/692063526332948480 (Jan 26)​

I don't dislike Gracie. But I don't see her as ahead of Ashley in terms of memorability.

 

[Mathman]

But I am pretty sure that In 5 years time, Yuna ….

In five year's time (counting from 2014) Yuna will be a shoo-in for the World Figure Skating Hall of Fame.

 

[temadd]

"American looking" :dev2:??? Blondeness certainly does not make someone more American than anyone else. Or more "American-looking" :ddevil: (whatever the heck that means).

In any case, Ashley's looks are very attractive (no less so than Gracie's).

And Ashley's personality also is very appealing and marketable (arguably more so than Gracie's).

Exhibit A: https://twitter.com/Worlds2016/status/692063526332948480 (Jan 26)​

I don't dislike Gracie. But I don't see her as ahead of Ashley in terms of memorability.

No doubt that, off the ice (and imo on the ice), Ashley is far more memorable than Gracie! She has proven that she is fearless about speaking her mind (esp. at the olympics regarding Russia's policy on LGBTQ issues). And who could possibly forget her facial expression when seeing her scores at same Olympics? Ashley is also beautiful.

 

[Shayuki]

My views on beauty are definitely not the norm but I really don't see such beauty in Gracie... To me she looks so strange and fake it's just never been the slightest bit attractive to me. While Ashley's not my cup of tea either, she does have her style... And at least she looks somewhat natural. I'd definitely put her above Gracie in attractiveness.

Hm, for looks I actually find the vast majority of American skaters a bit weird. I'd guess if I were to choose the prettiest, I'd land somewhere around Ashley Cain.

 

[mrrice]

Warning!!!!!! Feel free to move this comment to where ever it belongs. I remember reading about Brian Boitano and Brian Orser and who was having a better post competitive skating career. We all know what Brian Orser has been up to but, I wanted add something about Brian Boitano.

We all know that Brian had a cooking show called "What Would Brian Boitano Make" but I haven't seen it on TV in a while so, I did a little searching. Here's a recent clip from a show called "Drinking With Benefits. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7cAHYKcQ-4

Check out the Tattoo's on the Interviewer.....:shocked: