Wagner's world medal and her legacy

[yuzushenko]

"American looking" :dev2:??? Blondeness certainly does not make someone more American than anyone else. Or more "American-looking" :ddevil: (whatever the heck that means).

In any case, Ashley's looks are very attractive (no less so than Gracie's).

And Ashley's personality also is very appealing and marketable (more so than Gracie's, if you ask me).

Exhibit A: https://twitter.com/Worlds2016/status/692063526332948480 (Jan 26)​

I don't dislike Gracie. But I don't see her as ahead of Ashley in terms of memorability.

i agree with you but all these little girls at my rink love gracie cuz she looks like some princess i honestly dont know why. (does she look like elsa? do little girls think blondes look like elsa?) i myself prefer ashley. her personality is also more marketable imo but people sadly these days prefer looks over personality. i think ashley is really attractive, too. she's so cute.

hey well they call gracie america's sweetheart for a reason. i definitely don't look like that yet am american and i dont find it fair either but it's the reality i have to accept. i mean have you seen her latest instagram photo? she was invited to that Barbie evolution event or something and hey, guess what, she looks like a barbie! congrats. american image of a sweetheart or whatever is always blonde, blue eyes, nice body. gracie doesn't have blue eyes but i guess the name compensates for that?

 

[Mathman]

(does she look like elsa?

Does her sister Carly look like Anna?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/03/82/e0/0382e021ea078a34255c158e3207ddc4.jpg

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images...1399993066538/Elsa-and-Anna-in-Frozen-009.jpg

 

[ice coverage]

... hey well they call gracie america's sweetheart for a reason. i definitely don't look like that yet am american and i dont find it fair either but it's the reality i have to accept. i mean have you seen her latest instagram photo? she was invited to that Barbie evolution event or something and hey, guess what, she looks like a barbie! congrats. american image of a sweetheart or whatever is always blonde, blue eyes, nice body.

I strongly disagree that the "american image of a sweetheart or whatever is always blonde, blue eyes, nice body."

And Barbie disagrees too, by the way.
The whole point of the Barbie event that Gracie and Carly attended was to promote a diverse new 2016 line of Barbie dolls with a range of skin tones, hair colors, eye colors, and body types.

http://www.barbiemedia.com/images/detail/3822.html
https://www.instagram.com/p/BBFrNH7sV36/ (Jan 28)
http://www.barbiemedia.com/images/2016.html​

(It's nice that Gracie is an inspiration to girls at your rink. But other American girls love Mirai too, for example -- when she makes appearances in shows, etc., she gets a big reaction.)

 

[Mathman]

Ashley is the best performer from a theatrical standpoint since Rosalynn Sumners. Though others may disagree, I think, like Ros, We'll be seeing Ashley in the public eye for many years to come.

Strangely, figure skating theatrics were never a plus for me. I am not really interested in seeing someone pretend to turn into a swan. And if I were I would go to the ballet. (Altiough I have to admit that for pure camp Johnny Weir's orange sock puppet Camille was memorable. )

I used to cringe when Peggy Fleming would say, "Sasha becomes Juliet." No she doesn't. Can Juliet Capulet do this (and would she if she could?)

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/_photos/2005-11-19-sasha-cohen-in.jpg Romeo!!!

Although…one time in a cheesefest she fell out of her closing pose. Sprawled out on the ice, she tried to play it off as part of the act by stabbing herself

http://fe867b.medialib.glogster.com...029ee24319f2b0d5af382fa76b5/sasha-cohen-6.jpg

proving the Dick Buttonism that Sasha never hit an ugly position.

Michelle Kwan did only one program where she tried to portray a character, Salome. What a disaster. Her "teenaged seductress" was all teen and 0 seductress, no matter how they tried to tart her up. According to Christine Brennan's book, 15-year-old Michelle was unfamiliar with the Biblical story and when Frank and Lori told her what it was all about, Michelle was like, "You want me to do WHAT?!" In an early version of the program she even mimicked skating around with a tray, inviting the audience to imagine John the Baptist's bloody head on it.

After that, she just portrayed Michelle Kwan skating. :yes:

 

[mrrice]

I strongly disagree that the "american image of a sweetheart or whatever is always blonde, blue eyes, nice body."

And Barbie disagrees too, by the way.
The whole point of the Barbie event that Gracie and Carly attended was to promote a diverse new 2016 line of Barbie dolls with a range of skin tones, hair colors, and body types.

http://www.barbiemedia.com/images/detail/3822.html
http://www.barbiemedia.com/images/detail/3823.html
http://www.barbiemedia.com/images/2016.html​

(It's nice that Gracie is an inspiration to girls at your rink. But other American girls love Mirai too, for example -- when she makes appearances in shows, etc., she gets a big reaction.)

Peggy Fleming isn't Blonde and she is one of the most famous US Skater's in History. Snow White had dark hair as well and she's an "American" Icon. I guess I can't imagine why anyone cares what color hair a skater has. Especially since they tend to change color every season. I remember when the BESP guys said that Alissa Czisny was as "Pretty As A Princess" and she certainly wasn't blonde. Here's her 2011/2012 SP from where that comment came.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UZWjmyf9Hc

 

[yuzushenko]

I strongly disagree that the "american image of a sweetheart or whatever is always blonde, blue eyes, nice body."

And Barbie disagrees too, by the way.
The whole point of the Barbie event that Gracie and Carly attended was to promote a diverse new 2016 line of Barbie dolls with a range of skin tones, hair colors, eye colors, and body types.

http://www.barbiemedia.com/images/detail/3822.html
https://www.instagram.com/p/BBFrNH7sV36/ (Jan 28)
http://www.barbiemedia.com/images/2016.html​

(It's nice that Gracie is an inspiration to girls at your rink. But other American girls love Mirai too, for example -- when she makes appearances in shows, etc., she gets a big reaction.)

this proves my point lol barbie for the longest time created an image of some ideal american beauty. this event is a PR stunt cuz it's 2016 and the PC police are everywhere trying to be more PC and mattel has been falling behind so they needed a new strategy. what better way to get new sales than to appeal to a hipster millennial PC audience?

i know the PC answer is "blonde blue eyes ISNT an american standard" but for the longest time it was portrayed as such. it's only just changing cuz people are finally realizing how messed up that notion is and that we should accept each other and blah blah you get the idea. this is why mattel made this new diverse barbie line, why there are more female legos and all that other good progressive stuff.

 

[Mathman]

... we should accept each other and blah blah you get the idea. this is why mattel made this new diverse barbie line, why there are more female legos and all that other good progressive stuff.

We should in fact accept each other and all that good progressive stuff.

 

[yuzushenko]

We should in fact accept each other and all that good progressive stuff.

i agree. lol sorry if i sounded sarcastic ? but we can't forget history and ignore it. that's why we're doing the things we're doing now (like more diverse barbie dolls).

 

[mrrice]

yuzuhnko Said,

i know the PC answer is "blonde blue eyes ISNT an american standard" but for the longest time it was portrayed as such. it's only just changing cuz people are finally realizing how messed up that notion is and that we should accept each other and blah blah you get the idea. this is why mattel made this new diverse barbie line, why there are more female legos and all that other good progressive stuff.

Things still haven't completely changed, especially when it comes to Marketing. Maria Sharapova of Russia has 5 Grand Slam Titles. Serena Williams of the US has 21 Grand Slam Titles. You'd think that Serena would make more from endorsements....Especially in the US but unfortunately, Serena is a distant second to Maria in Endorsement Earnings.

 

[Mathman]

i agree. lol sorry if i sounded sarcastic ? but we can't forget history and ignore it. that's why we're doing the things we're doing now (like more diverse barbie dolls).

When they announced that there would be a tall Barbie, a petite Barbie, and a curvy Barbie, my first thought was, "wait a minute. Isn't Barbie tall and curvy already?"

 

[Krislite]

When they announced that there would be a tall Barbie, a petite Barbie, and a curvy Barbie, my first thought was, "wait a minute. Isn't Barbie tall and curvy already?"

"Curvy" is a euphemism, and it doesn't apply to the original Barbie.

Anyway this getting a bit off topic. Ashley Wagner is no Barbie.

Her longevity in the US skating scene will mean some form of legacy, whatever happens at Worlds. But I do think a World medal could make a big difference in that it would mean the end of the 10-year "drought".

 

[Skater Boy]

Wow, I never even considered Ashley having a legacy at least now of sorts. Why? Well even Chin and the forgotten American girl Holly Cook have world medals not Ashley as of yet. Ashley may have several national titles but they were watered down - spread out and her performances forgettable. While there have been attempts to create a rivalry with Gracie it hasn't manifested really well as usually it is clear who is better or Polina gets in the way. Ashley is good but her performances not artistic master pieces and her tech good but not great - no one phenomenal element (or program yet). she has some spunk bu tnot that of Bobek, Harding or even Debi Thomas. Her family is nondescript or unknown so that does not add to her being famous or a legacy like Chin's mom. We will see if she hs much of legacy; time will tell but she is not special. She will be in the record books as national champion but not sure if she has much of a legacy.

 

[Moxiejan]

Her family is nondescript or unknown so that does not add to her being famous or a legacy like Chin's mom. We will see if she hs much of legacy; time will tell but she is not special. She will be in the record books as national champion but not sure if she has much of a legacy.

What possible relevance does a skater's family ("nondescript" or otherwise) have in a discussion of a skater's competitive accomplishments?

 

[Icey]

I want a world medal for Ashley Wagner and I think a world medal will seal her place among America's greatest female skaters. But does she need it to seal her place in the long legacy of American ladies figure skating?

Ashley has been one of the most competitive American ladies of this era - 3 Nationals Titles, 3 Bronze medals, and 2 pewters. This "era" in American skating, if it were called one, has definitely belonged to Wagner and Gold - successors of sort to Meissner before her, Cohen before that, and Kwan before that. However, Meissner, Cohen, and Kwan all had success (to varying degrees) at the World Championships. Stretching back even further, Lipinski, Bobek, Kerrigan, Yamaguchi, Trenary, Thomas, Harding, Thomas, Chin, all had success on the international stage.

So I guess my question is this: Does Ashley need a world medal for her to be considered a torch bearer for this era and for American ladies skating, in general? Sure, Ashley has been successful on the grand prix circuit, but is that enough? Does she need a world medal to even be mentioned in the same breath as the aforementioned ladies? Without a world medal will she just be seen as a representation of the decline of American skating, or at best, a transitional time for better things to come?

How many female skaters that won the national title but no world medal do most people remember? In fact , how many past national title winners do most people remember anyway?

 

[Skater Boy]

What possible relevance does a skater's family ("nondescript" or otherwise) have in a discussion of a skater's competitive accomplishments?

Legacy arguably includes why you remember someone. That's the challenge with all these posts we all have so many different takes - and we are very opinionated all of us lol

 

[4everchan]

I don't know... some skaters have been more dominant on the world stage (meisner, hughes) and we barely ever talk about them... the ones we remember the most are kwan, yamaguchi and cohen.... they have world and olympic medals but also had incredible programs.

however, if Ashley ends the drought of American women's medal RIGHT in BOSTON, then fine... she may get the push she needs to be remembered... but I doubt it will happen. In fact, I think she will place behind Gracie.... and well, there's rarely room in history books for second violins.

 

[Skater Boy]

Warning!!!!!! Feel free to move this comment to where ever it belongs. I remember reading about Brian Boitano and Brian Orser and who was having a better post competitive skating career. We all know what Brian Orser has been up to but, I wanted add something about Brian Boitano.

We all know that Brian had a cooking show called "What Would Brian Boitano Make" but I haven't seen it on TV in a while so, I did a little searching. Here's a recent clip from a show called "Drinking With Benefits. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7cAHYKcQ-4

Check out the Tattoo's on the Interviewer.....:shocked:

So random lol. Nice to hear about Brian and while I wish him well Brian Orser deserves a little more sun now I kind of feel sorry for Orser because the man earned a gold ironically with the new scoring system and minus school figures he might even be a double gold medallist. Instead well we saw him struggle after losing to BB and how BB soared career wise and is so nice to see Orser making a differen with two OGM winners though it would be nice for him to do something with his country's skaters ( I mean an ogm or world title). he does have some promising students.

 

[Skater Boy]

I don't know... some skaters have been more dominant on the world stage (meisner, hughes) and we barely ever talk about them... the ones we remember the most are kwan, yamaguchi and cohen.... they have world and olympic medals but also had incredible programs.

however, if Ashley ends the drought of American women's medal RIGHT in BOSTON, then fine... she may get the push she needs to be remembered... but I doubt it will happen. In fact, I think she will place behind Gracie.... and well, there's rarely room in history books for second violins.

Unless it is Stradiveritus 9oops whatever famous violin). but the prob is Ashley is right now pretty generic - even meissner was a wonderful wolrd skate but not special. Like Holly Cook just placed two steps up higher on the world podium. some people just have the it factor regardless of medals. But a medal would help and with world's in Boston and three good chances the drought or as some would l say THE STREAK IS OVER after Boston.

 

[mrrice]

I think it would be a great interview to hear from Ashley and get her perspective. I look at a skater like Tonia Kwiatkowski who has no National Title and no medal of any kind from Worlds. However, she has done quite well as a broadcaster and like Jenny Kirk, is still in the Public eye. Unlike Nicole Bobek who has a National Title, a World Bronze, and made the Olympic team in 1998.

 

[Moxiejan]

Legacy arguably includes why you remember someone. That's the challenge with all these posts we all have so many different takes - and we are very opinionated all of us lol

There is a difference between "legacy" and "notoriety."

That being said, I don't think anyone would say that the "legacy" of, say, Brian Boitano is related in any way to his family. I don't remember ever seeing his family. Did that make them "nondescript"? Certainly not to him. In the case of skaters whose families were more visible, such as Michelle Kwan, would anyone say that her "legacy" was connected in any way to her family? Yes, our memories of her include seeing her father at rinkside and her mother/siblings cheering for her in the stands. But that has NOTHING to do with how she is remembered in terms of titles and medals and performance.