people were talking about it earlier anyway.
What will 2010-11 bring for Caroline Zhang?
- Thread starter Sylvia
- Start date
people were talking about it earlier anyway.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2010
Zhang needs a lot of help, I just wish she had went with a technical coach instead of Peter. She needs to put a Lutz in the short program and maximize her points with better spins. She can do it and can get tons of extra points with those level 4 spins. Invent a new spin that no one have seen, be unique. The pearl is the past, do something else that wont kill ur back. It's sad when you have two clean short programs during the Grand Prix and you are still in the middle of the pack. Again, speed is her main issue. She needs to stop using overused choreographers like Lori Nichols or David Wilson. Find someone who will actually spend the time to choreograph the program. Go with Karen Kwan, she did all those amazing exhibition numbers for Zhang. Kwan's over use of hand movements is perfect for someone like Zhang who has pretty hand movement. Again, stop picking boring music and music that makes people sleep. Pick some exciting and fast music please. I don't know if Zhang listens...
I've only seen Caroline's short on YouTube (I don't get IN), and there are definite improvements: the footwork was faster and more complex, the loop combo was less corkscrewed and had more flow to it, and she's gotten the extreme positions back into her spins. The flip was a goner because she had such a bad lean in the air, and I'm wondering why that was. She also needs more flight in her flying spin, and that 2A still needs to cover more distance.
Overall, I'd say definite progress has been made, and not just on the flip. I'm just worried about the jumps she has been missing throughout this whole season (the lutz, salchow and solo flip) because reports were that she was landing them in practice; it just seems like she couldn't do them in competition. I hope she doesn't develop a kind of mental block on these jumps and start to repeat a pattern of always missing them during crunch time.
Overall, I'd say definite progress has been made, and not just on the flip. I'm just worried about the jumps she has been missing throughout this whole season (the lutz, salchow and solo flip) because reports were that she was landing them in practice; it just seems like she couldn't do them in competition. I hope she doesn't develop a kind of mental block on these jumps and start to repeat a pattern of always missing them during crunch time.
So Caroline used to use an extreme counter-twist, with her hips, leg, shoulders, arms all completely counter-rotated, on her 3F take-off -- hence the ugly mulekick and jump in general. With her new technique, she's trying to keep those things square as much as possible, shorten the inside edge after the 3-turn, and rotate into her 3F without that first undergoing that excessive counter-twisting. But because the dynamics are so new to her body, I think her timing is sometimes a little off. It's like she's trying so hard not to counter-twist that her shoulders/arms are getting ahead of her legs and hip, and starting to rotate a little too early. I think that's causing the lean and pops and other mishaps on takeoffs.
Her run-throughs were better in practice, but every session she seemed to have fallen on at least one 3F, so obviously she hasn't totally gotten the timing/technique down. And then in the heat of the moment in a competition, when all eyes on you, and your adrenaline level is high, I can see how she'd easily rush her 3F entry and mess up the jump. I don't think it's a mental block. I think she needs to get these jumps down, with the new technique, 100% in practice, then she will have the confidence to go out there and do well in competitions, too.
Cool...thanks for the explanation, feraina. I'm not well-versed in teknik issues, so I appreciate it when someone gives an answer to a jump question that actually makes sense.
Here's hoping that Caroline will stabilize all those technical issues in the long down time that she'll have till next season.
Here's hoping that Caroline will stabilize all those technical issues in the long down time that she'll have till next season.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
Watching Caroline's Nationals program, she's improved so much! I don't notice the mule kick anymore, she looks slimmer and more athletic, her spins are better than the Grand Prix, and she's much faster. Whatever speed drills she's doing, she should keep it up.
I don't know much about the technical portions of skating, but feraina's post makes me feel better about Caroline's prospects.
Do you think Caroline does weight training, like squats and deadlifts with a barbell, that sort of thing? It might help with her jump height. I don't know, I'm just speculating. :think:
I don't know much about the technical portions of skating, but feraina's post makes me feel better about Caroline's prospects.
Do you think Caroline does weight training, like squats and deadlifts with a barbell, that sort of thing? It might help with her jump height. I don't know, I'm just speculating. :think:
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
I haven't been able to find it in some time, but somewhere in Internet-Land, there is a picture of Caroline training on a pec-deck machine. It's from about 4 years ago.
it doesn't matter anymore-she will finish out jof the top 24 at the end of the world rankings, her personal best score is only 69th right now. only top 75 gets picked for gp assignment.
the usfsa judges, federation when she jumped up kept her pcs scores low and 25, 53 while rachels, ashleys, miria, now agnes got 27, 55-58,
agnes got a 27 in short --to high, long 56 to-high.heck marley/brubaker skated about like agnes pc in long was a 52 which is about right.-a 54.75 should been agnes pcs in the long.
agnes gp pcs scores got a 23, 53, so why didn't us hold up c zhang--i can tell you why, but not going to. yes they put in gp at young age, but did they help her but holding her up at nationals no--in gao in that same position--no held up either.
c zhang should quit.--sorry to be blunt but c zhang been in since 2008 senior level never once held up at nationals, never once screwsup overlooked at nationals.
ashely still two-foots jumps overlook in fact got positive on jumps, miria-ur her combo jump, and second but got positive goes, only thing called was a edge, slight ur but no downgrades. rachel skated okay shouldn't have gotten positive on jumps.
so c zhang career is over. they noticed her mistakes rightly called them.
caroline zhangs career is over --for me just like the usfsa wanted .
they won't go out of their way for a gp event.
the usfsa judges, federation when she jumped up kept her pcs scores low and 25, 53 while rachels, ashleys, miria, now agnes got 27, 55-58,
agnes got a 27 in short --to high, long 56 to-high.heck marley/brubaker skated about like agnes pc in long was a 52 which is about right.-a 54.75 should been agnes pcs in the long.
agnes gp pcs scores got a 23, 53, so why didn't us hold up c zhang--i can tell you why, but not going to. yes they put in gp at young age, but did they help her but holding her up at nationals no--in gao in that same position--no held up either.
c zhang should quit.--sorry to be blunt but c zhang been in since 2008 senior level never once held up at nationals, never once screwsup overlooked at nationals.
ashely still two-foots jumps overlook in fact got positive on jumps, miria-ur her combo jump, and second but got positive goes, only thing called was a edge, slight ur but no downgrades. rachel skated okay shouldn't have gotten positive on jumps.
so c zhang career is over. they noticed her mistakes rightly called them.
caroline zhangs career is over --for me just like the usfsa wanted .
they won't go out of their way for a gp event.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
^^^
Perfect example of the self-defeating power of the victim mentality. 'The big guys are against me so I may as well give up.'
Hopefully Caroline is past that and is able to look realistically at her chances. If she goes out, it should be because she's tired of the battle or because she doesn't think she has what it takes to win. Or maybe she and her family simply can't afford it any longer. But the reason for her problems is not that 'they' don't like her. None of the skaters that fairly mentions have such glaring technical weaknesses as Caroline's. Caroline got loads of breaks in juniors when she won everything in spite of the problems.
Perfect example of the self-defeating power of the victim mentality. 'The big guys are against me so I may as well give up.'
Hopefully Caroline is past that and is able to look realistically at her chances. If she goes out, it should be because she's tired of the battle or because she doesn't think she has what it takes to win. Or maybe she and her family simply can't afford it any longer. But the reason for her problems is not that 'they' don't like her. None of the skaters that fairly mentions have such glaring technical weaknesses as Caroline's. Caroline got loads of breaks in juniors when she won everything in spite of the problems.
Perhaps then it was reality's slap in the face a year or so ago that did it. Her fans should remember that she is still young and she still has plenty of time. When Czisny broke onto the scene in 2005, did anyone seriously think she'd still be relevant in 2011?
Did anyone? Sure some did. (Quite a few on the message boards.) I think she got a lot of hype in 2005. Her GP medals brought her to the attention of the figure skating world and many people wanted her to medal at Nationals and make the World team and were upset when she failed to do that. (These people have been cheering her on from 2006 to 2010, a very rocky time for her.)
It's kinda interesting that quite a few folks in the forum community have been discussing and encouraging Alissa for so many years. I can't figure out why though. Certainly not based on her competitive results!
I've never been able to figure it out either.
I have always enjoyed Alissa because of the unique artistry she brings to skating. No one spins like her, and she's so musical as well. I didn't have any particular expectations of her, but I just enjoy watching her. In the days when pro skating was big, I'd have been equally happy for her to turn pro and show up in televised competitions, performances, and whatnot, but these days eligible skating is the only game in town, so I'm glad she's stayed in.
I've backed consistent winners before. I'm a Kwan fan! So it's no great sacrifice for me to support Alissa through more thin than thick. Besides, since she's been around, it's not as if the U.S. has had so many sparkling skaters that Alissa has been crowded off the podium! The years she's been tenth or so, it's been because she's crashed and burned, not because there were nine stellar skaters ahead of her. So I'm happy to keep cheering her on.
Don't you guys like beautiful skating? 
I can't figure out why some people are so mystified that an exquisite skater like Alissa has fans.
Results aren't everything. Do you really only watch skating to for the medals? Or to see how many spots the U.S. will have next year?
As for the results, however, Alissa has always shown she can get far when she keeps it together. The moments have been few and far between, until this year at least. But I'm always happy to see her skate.
Besides, no matter how much Alissa has struggled, she can't be compared to Caroline. Alissa has technical issues but nothing compared to Caroline and she always had it in her to medal or win events.
Alissa has given me some of my favorite nationals performances, ones I occasional re-watch for the pleasure of it. She added two more this year. I can't say that about any other U.S. skater currently competing, except for the two performances Mirai gave last year.
Hey, you asked. There's my answer.
I can't figure out why some people are so mystified that an exquisite skater like Alissa has fans.
Results aren't everything. Do you really only watch skating to for the medals? Or to see how many spots the U.S. will have next year?
As for the results, however, Alissa has always shown she can get far when she keeps it together. The moments have been few and far between, until this year at least. But I'm always happy to see her skate.
Besides, no matter how much Alissa has struggled, she can't be compared to Caroline. Alissa has technical issues but nothing compared to Caroline and she always had it in her to medal or win events.
Alissa has given me some of my favorite nationals performances, ones I occasional re-watch for the pleasure of it. She added two more this year. I can't say that about any other U.S. skater currently competing, except for the two performances Mirai gave last year.
Hey, you asked. There's my answer.
Despite keeping a video archive, it's quite rare that I re-watch any competition skate TBH. (Gala performances are somewhat different, but even then it's not something I do regularly.) Part of the thrill for me as a SPORTS fan is not knowing what's going to happen next. That said, I can appreciate a great performance or an engaging one. Unfortunately these days they seem to be few and far between.
The skater that makes me want to go back over and over again hasn't appeared yet- and probably never will.
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As for Czisny- it's ok if she has fans. Actually I would have great respect for such fans if they are able to endure the roller-coaster ride a skater like Czisny takes them on and stand by her no matter what. Those are the kinds of fans a skater needs, rather than the bandwagon fans/"fair-weather" fans. Although said bandwagon fans ARE a major factor in creating the electric atmosphere when the skater is doing well, so they're not necessarily bad. Apply this to, say, a football team and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.
The skater that makes me want to go back over and over again hasn't appeared yet- and probably never will.
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As for Czisny- it's ok if she has fans. Actually I would have great respect for such fans if they are able to endure the roller-coaster ride a skater like Czisny takes them on and stand by her no matter what. Those are the kinds of fans a skater needs, rather than the bandwagon fans/"fair-weather" fans. Although said bandwagon fans ARE a major factor in creating the electric atmosphere when the skater is doing well, so they're not necessarily bad. Apply this to, say, a football team and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2011
Fans stuck around because she stuck around. She didn't give up. She continued to show ambition. And she didn't seem to lose any significant skills. There have been talented skaters with unique skills that may gain fans for a while, but once injury or apathy puts them out of high level competition for good, fans pick up on that and give up on them, too. Alissa was a headcase for years, but you can't accuse her of giving up. That's why she maintained fandom.
Don't you guys like beautiful skating?
I can't figure out why some people are so mystified that an exquisite skater like Alissa has fans.
It surely can't just be her exquisite skating that has brought her so many fans. I for one adored the skating of Laney Diggs and Katrina Hacker, who is no longer competing.
Did these two skaters ever manage to gather lots of fans on the forums?
Except for her jumps!
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- Joined
- Jan 7, 2011
She was still landing jumps, she just splatted on them at random. She never lost her jumps, she just never had consistency to begin with until this season.
I don't understand. Why can't it be?
Eh, I wouldn't really care if she decided to call it a career after this year. (Except I'd miss her skating) She's already proven what she can do in a lot of ways, and to herself which might be the most important thing.
Her past is her past, nothing she can do about it.
No matter what she's a two-time national champ and a GPF champ.
Not everybody can be Michelle Kwan.
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