What will 2010-11 bring for Caroline Zhang?

[Pikachuusb]

Did anyone? Sure some did. (Quite a few on the message boards.) I think she got a lot of hype in 2005. Her GP medals brought her to the attention of the figure skating world and many people wanted her to medal at Nationals and make the World team and were upset when she failed to do that. (These people have been cheering her on from 2006 to 2010, a very rocky time for her.)

It's kinda interesting that quite a few folks in the forum community have been discussing and encouraging Alissa for so many years. I can't figure out why though. Certainly not based on her competitive results!

I would have been one of those that have hung on thru the years. I think if you are trully a fan you dont drop off when things arent going well. There are lots of fare weather fans(in all sports) but I can say that I am one of those people. Id feel fake. But thats just me.

As for why Ive been a fan of Alissa, I feel she is just stunning on the ice. She has a great sense of musicality, she has great line, spirals, spins etc. Yes she's had issues with consistancy, but everyone cant be as "consistant" as Rachel. Yes Ive had heartbreaking moments being Alissa's fan(we were at Nationals in 2006 St Louis rooting for her), but everyone has thier moments. Thats what being a fan is all about. You are there thru the thick and thin.

I have been a fan of many people who have had ups and downs and Ive supported them all thru thick and thin even when people are writing/wrote them off: Yukina Ota, Bebe Liang, Caroline Zhang, Cynthia Phaneuf, Kevin Van Der Perren, Brian Joubert, Mao, Asada, Shawn Sawyer, Rohene Ward, Fumie Suguri, Sasha Cohen, Lucindah Ruh, Naomi Nari Nam, and Alissa. Im sure there are others but these are off the top of my head. Whether they are 1st or 25th I am there yelling and cheering them on. I became a fan of all of these people for different reasons. I dont think I have 1 thing or another thats makes me become a fan of anyone. And just because you win all the time doesnt make me become a fan of you.

 

[feraina]

Caroline has (or used to have) something that Alissa lacked for a very long time: mental toughness and consistency. Caroline used to be able to just go out there and do one perfect program after another. Her first year on JGP/JW, her National's programs were the only non-perfect ones. Her first GP season was pretty good, too, she brought in the 3F+3T, and even beat Yu-na in the SP in Coc (not to mention Miki Ando and Yukari Nakano in the GPF). Her problem was that as her body changed, her old techniques no longer sufficed for her to rotate all her jumps all the time, and then the falls and pops set in. Actually, until this season, she never used to pop jumps either. The body changes made her under-rotate and fall. The retooling of her jump technique made her less consistent with the timing of the jumps. But so far, I don't see strong evidence that Caroline has big mental issues like Alissa did (hopefully in the past tense), and some of the other top ladies do (I won't name any names). Caroline does get nervous under pressure, and when that happens she sloowwwws down, she becomes a lot more cautious, but she doesn't freak out or start doubting herself.

Of course, if this body change + technique retooling process keeps on wrecking her competitive performances, then she might start doubting herself, and turn into a headcase or something. I hope not! Her demeanor during and outside of her programs doesn't indicate to me that that's the case (yet). She looks less disappointed/unhappy with herself this season than last, and she has obviously made a lot of progress on a lot of things. To me she looks like she enjoys and is committed to skating, and is willing to work on her weakness until she gets the results.

By the way, people on FSU keep on saying how "miserable" she looked in her National's FS, and how much she looks like she doesn't want to skate anymore. What are they talking about? I really don't see it. I almost feel like it's schadenfreude of people wanting her to feel miserable or to quit or something... She even smiled late in her program, and seemed relatively upbeat in the K&C. :thumbsup:

I find it interesting that despite all Caroline's flaws, she gets a whole lot of attention among FS fans. There's a long, long thread here and also on FSU about her every year (although there it's mostly negative/nasty, and here it's more positive or at least mixed). She only trails Mao and Yuna in popularity by this measure. There's something obviously really special about Caroline's skating, which some people love (I do), and others abhor. I'm just amused how some people will comment repeatedly in the Caroline thread to say over and over she's finished and uninteresting.

 

[Serious Business]

Any skater who is willing to rework her technique as much as Caroline has (so many of her jumps are different and superior animals now) must have at least some drive and ambition to stay in the sport. I think Caroline knows that while she's reworking her technique, her scores are going to suffer even though she's actually making huge progress. That 3flip may as well be a new jump for her, for her to land it in the FS has to feel good. She may actually be proud of herself, I hope she is. I feel more hopeful about her future in the sport than if she had kept on skating with her bad old habits even if she got better rankings.

 

[Olympia]

In other words, Feraina, we shouldn't give up on Caroline. I agree! She has talent, and I'm happy to root for her. Hey, I already have a lot of practice cheering for skaters who go through tough times. I'm a fan of Alissa's! We are not fair-weather fans.

Actually, Alissa has some good lessons for Caroline. Alissa is not a pixie. She's rather tall. Yet she manages to skate pretty well. Her jump problems result mainly from--well, headcase stuff, which I can say because she's so much better about it this season. If Alissa can maintain her skills as a tall person, then Caroline can find hers again. Go for it, Caroline!

 

[R.D.]

Czisny is about average height...? She may not be a Cohen but she's definitely not unusually tall- not like Gilles or Zawadki for example

 

[Tinymavy15]

Alissa is pretty tall for a skater, I think she is 5"6.

 

[Andalusia]

I find it interesting that despite all Caroline's flaws, she gets a whole lot of attention among FS fans. There's a long, long thread here and also on FSU about her every year (although there it's mostly negative/nasty, and here it's more positive or at least mixed). She only trails Mao and Yuna in popularity by this measure. There's something obviously really special about Caroline's skating, which some people love (I do), and others abhor. I'm just amused how some people will comment repeatedly in the Caroline thread to say over and over she's finished and uninteresting.

LOL, I find it interesting, too. I think the people that are nasty in those threads are still smarting from the extreme hype that Caroline received as a junior. I guess they are still so turned off by it even though Caroline is completely under the radar these days that they wish she'd just get lost or something. Quite sad, really, when Caroline herself wasn't responsible for the hype and she is now having such a tough time in regards to her skating.

 

[bigsisjiejie]

Alissa is pretty tall for a skater, I think she is 5"6.

5'-4." Ain't no way she's even close to 5'-6." Actually, I was thinking Caroline Z. now looks slightly taller than Alissa.

 

[R.D.]

Alissa is pretty tall for a skater, I think she is 5"6.

I stood next to her- NO WAY is she 5'6". She's 5-4 at the tallest.

 

[silverlake22]

I stood next to her- NO WAY is she 5'6". She's 5-4 at the tallest.

That's about right. Agnes is 5'6" and was taller than pretty much everyone else in the warmup for the FS. Alissa was about the same height as Christina Gao, who's grown a lot this year but definitely is not 5'6", at least not yet, 5'4" sounds right. Skaters are getting taller in general, so I wouldn't say Alissa or Caroline is at a disadvantage height wise. Yuna Kim is one of the most amazing jumpers ever and she's 5'4"-5'5". Caroline's height is the least of her problems, although for me her proportions do make her spins less pleasant, it looks like her body is longer than her legs.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Isn't Alexei Gilles the tall timber tessie in the US comps? Beautiful body, too. It's all proportioned.

btw. It should be obvious that C. Zhang whowed a lot of improvement in her skating at Nats. She just might be a late bloomer like Czisny was.

 

[herios]

Isn't Alexei Gilles the tall timber tessie in the US comps? Beautiful body, too. It's all proportioned.

btw. It should be obvious that C. Zhang whowed a lot of improvement in her skating at Nats. She just might be a late bloomer like Czisny was.

How can you call Zhang a late bloomer Joe? She is actually quite the opposite. A late bloomer is starting late his / her career and reaches the best results later than the average. Caroline started her career on a high (JWC gold) and she is on a rather steep downhill trend.
She was 3rd in US 2 years ago in seniors and now she is 12. Where is the blooming, cause I am not seeing it?
And eventhough there are some technical improvements, if there is no translation in results, then all the effort is just a waste of time. At this point in time, she is facing a big uphill battle.
I think next year will be critical for her. She most likely will have no GP assignments and will need to go through qualifications like Czisny did. But if the results won't be coming along, she might be better looking after her academical career.

 

[krenseby]

HAnd eventhough there are some technical improvements, if there is no translation in results, then all the effort is just a waste of time. At this point in time, she is facing a big uphill battle.

I agree with you herios, that's why it's so dangerous to even attempt to improve your technique. Jumps that are more textbook are great in theory, but terrible if you can't land them with consistency ;-(

So, yeah, in order to be called a late bloomer, the skater does have to bloom first. Caroline hasn't done that yet and it remains to be seen if she will. Your point is well taken, herios.

 

[brightphoton]

I agree with you herios, that's why it's so dangerous to even attempt to improve your technique. Jumps that are more textbook are great in theory, but terrible if you can't land them with consistency ;-(

So, yeah, in order to be called a late bloomer, the skater does have to bloom first. Caroline hasn't done that yet and it remains to be seen if she will. Your point is well taken, herios.

You can't stick a fork in her after Caroline after a few lousy seasons. Hills are steepest at the bottom.

And what do you mean she hasn't bloomed yet? She received widespread media attention specifically because of her meteoric rise. 1st place in all the JGP events, the JGPF, 2nd at Nationals, and then 1st at Junior Worlds. She skated reasonably well during her first two years as a senior too.

 

[krenseby]

And what do you mean she hasn't bloomed yet?

I was referring to how she hasn't gotten to the "late bloomer" part yet. Everything happens in its own time. She is putting in the hard work and perhaps it will begin to bear fruit. We'll have to wait and see. But I don't like premature pronouncements. I prefer not to talk about success before it actually happens. Heck, I was a fool to make a prediction about Mirai. I told myself after the last Worlds that she will make top 5 or medal at this one. Turns out she isn't even going.

 

[brightphoton]

I was referring to how she hasn't gotten to the "late bloomer" part yet. Everything happens in its own time. She is putting in the hard work and perhaps it will begin to bear fruit. We'll have to wait and see. But I don't like premature pronouncements. I prefer not to talk about success before it actually happens. Heck, I was a fool to make a prediction about Mirai. I told myself after the last Worlds that she will make top 5 or medal at this one. Turns out she isn't even going.

I don't think it's foolish to make predictions. Maybe it's only foolish to bet money on them.
My predictions nearly always turn out to be wrong anyway I thought Christina and Adam would medal. Who would've thought that eternal headcase would win Nationals again?

 

[R.D.]

I wasn't sure she'd win, but I figured given Czisny's track record that she was going to place top 4.

 

[Olympia]

You can't stick a fork in her after Caroline after a few lousy seasons. Hills are steepest at the bottom.

And what do you mean she hasn't bloomed yet? She received widespread media attention specifically because of her meteoric rise. 1st place in all the JGP events, the JGPF, 2nd at Nationals, and then 1st at Junior Worlds. She skated reasonably well during her first two years as a senior too.

Caroline might have a two-pronged career, the way Evonne Goolagong did in tennis. Goolagong won Wimbledon at nineteen and became hugely popular at a young age, and then she kind of spun her wheels for awhile. After some years, people thought she was pretty much through--she even got married and had a child--and then when she was almost thirty, she won Wimbledon again. One never knows. As long as Caroline isn't giving up, there's no reason for her fans to fold up their seats and go home.

 

[Spun Silver]

I wasn't sure she'd win, but I figured given Czisny's track record that she was going to place top 4.

I don't think you were predicting that a year or two ago.

 

[antmanb]

I have to say, I haven't really kept tabs on Caroline but i watched the youtube of her SP and thought she looked wonderful. The triple flip technique looked very good despit the lean (which can happen to anyone). It's difficult to tell her speed not being there live but she didn't seem particularly slow which is a criticism i've often heard. She still has fast beautiful spins. The best part for me is that she looks like a young lady. I don't enjoy the little girls skating and have a hard time buying the choreography from young girls. I hope the work she has put in to correcting her technique continues and that she get back to worlds a gain in the future.

Ant