What would you do to Improve the scoring sys?
- Thread starter SeaniBu
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2006
Either it is done or not
Great point, keep it simple, Like this new "harmonie." Maybe I'll take a lesson in posting from them...well, that might make everyone too happy.
Land it or not. It defiantly fits a good constancy of K.I.S.S. Makes almost to much since that it would never fly, but that's a bird I would like to see.
It makes me wonder about the "cheat" (1/4 turn) and if that really is or isn't?
Great point, keep it simple, Like this new "harmonie." Maybe I'll take a lesson in posting from them...well, that might make everyone too happy.
Land it or not. It defiantly fits a good constancy of K.I.S.S. Makes almost to much since that it would never fly, but that's a bird I would like to see.
It makes me wonder about the "cheat" (1/4 turn) and if that really is or isn't?
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- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
An argument for eliminating anonymous judging .... one needs to be able to compare a judges scores against each skater. If judge 1 gives a skater -2 GOE for a failed 3 lutz for an 'opposing' nation, but gives a skater from his country a 0 GOE for a failed 3 lutz, is there way to question this judge? Under the 6.0, it was possible to inflate; however, you could also see that judge 1 from country x might have consistently marked skaters in the 5.6 to 5.7 range and could tell that he gave a 6.0 to his country's skater was wrong when his country's skater skated subpar.
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2006
So..
Have a Judge for the Judges?
I am really not being sarcastic - very rarely - Does everyone think that might work?
Review the "reviewers?"
I would wait for the end of the entire event, i.e. no "Kiss n Cry" if I felt like it would be a lest contested standing of COP.
Have a Judge for the Judges?
I am really not being sarcastic - very rarely - Does everyone think that might work?
Review the "reviewers?"
I would wait for the end of the entire event, i.e. no "Kiss n Cry" if I felt like it would be a lest contested standing of COP.
Most of
I think skaters should be required to do 2 new programs each yr. no repeat cause Im comfortable with the old one. The Olys comp. was a joke with skaters going back to old programs. I am bored watching the same skaters skate the same programs yr after yr. I want to see new work since they skate the same program all season. I dont think the NJS is helping the interest in skating. I go to the boards and dont watch.
I think skaters should be required to do 2 new programs each yr. no repeat cause Im comfortable with the old one. The Olys comp. was a joke with skaters going back to old programs. I am bored watching the same skaters skate the same programs yr after yr. I want to see new work since they skate the same program all season. I dont think the NJS is helping the interest in skating. I go to the boards and dont watch.
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
My list is rather similar to everyone else's I'm afraid, but here it goes nonetheless
1. Get rid of anonymous judging. Yes, I agree that it makes them answerable to federations, but I think the alternative is worse.
2. No credit for elements resulting in fall.
3. If jump receives no points, it's not counted as a jump. In other words, if skater falls on a jump, they get a chance to try it later in the program without exceeding the limit. If a skater messed up and repeated the same jump, thus getting no points for it, do not count this jump into the overall total which cannot be exceeded.
4. In ice dance, eliminate such harsh deductions for lifts being held too long. Put more emphasize on elements (including lifts) being done to the music.
5. Just as there is a Zayak rule for jumps, have a Slutskaya rule for spins.
6. Separate judging panels for elements and components.
1. Get rid of anonymous judging. Yes, I agree that it makes them answerable to federations, but I think the alternative is worse.
2. No credit for elements resulting in fall.
3. If jump receives no points, it's not counted as a jump. In other words, if skater falls on a jump, they get a chance to try it later in the program without exceeding the limit. If a skater messed up and repeated the same jump, thus getting no points for it, do not count this jump into the overall total which cannot be exceeded.
4. In ice dance, eliminate such harsh deductions for lifts being held too long. Put more emphasize on elements (including lifts) being done to the music.
5. Just as there is a Zayak rule for jumps, have a Slutskaya rule for spins.
6. Separate judging panels for elements and components.
- More points for quads.
- More points for combinations (i.e. a triple lutz-triple loop should get more points than just the combined base value of the two jumps on their own) and more points for HARDER combinations (i.e. a triple lutz-triple loop should get more points than a triple flip-triple toe loop).
- Only 1 catch-foot/biellman position in a combination spin and only 1 catch-foot position in a spiral for ladies, pairs, and ice dance.
- A limitation on combination spins... to make some spins "purer" they should require that at least one spin can only have 1-2 positions total. We would then see some faster and better-centered spins and not just spins with a gazillion position and edge changes that rack up the points.
- No more anonymous judging! And seperate panels.
- More encouragement of +3 GOE.
- More differentiation within PCS from section to section. Because someone with 6 choreography may not have 6 skating skills and someone else with 7 interpretation may not have 7 transitions and someone else with 8 performance may not have 8 skating skills!
- More points for combinations (i.e. a triple lutz-triple loop should get more points than just the combined base value of the two jumps on their own) and more points for HARDER combinations (i.e. a triple lutz-triple loop should get more points than a triple flip-triple toe loop).
- Only 1 catch-foot/biellman position in a combination spin and only 1 catch-foot position in a spiral for ladies, pairs, and ice dance.
- A limitation on combination spins... to make some spins "purer" they should require that at least one spin can only have 1-2 positions total. We would then see some faster and better-centered spins and not just spins with a gazillion position and edge changes that rack up the points.
- No more anonymous judging! And seperate panels.
- More encouragement of +3 GOE.
- More differentiation within PCS from section to section. Because someone with 6 choreography may not have 6 skating skills and someone else with 7 interpretation may not have 7 transitions and someone else with 8 performance may not have 8 skating skills!
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I basically agree with almost all of the above mentioned improvements. My big thing is a limit on the changes of position in the spins-- and I love the post that suggested bonus points for a spin with multiple rotation. In addition to so much inferior music, I think the spins have been my biggest disappointment of the season.
And God yes, please invoke a Slutskaya rule on the Beilmann positions.
NOW. We all have definite ideas about improving the system. What I would like to hear is if you really think there WILL be improvements. I heard during Olympic coverage comments attributed to Speedy that he solidly backs the system and thinks it is working well and that it is the federations, not the system, that has failed.
And God yes, please invoke a Slutskaya rule on the Beilmann positions.
NOW. We all have definite ideas about improving the system. What I would like to hear is if you really think there WILL be improvements. I heard during Olympic coverage comments attributed to Speedy that he solidly backs the system and thinks it is working well and that it is the federations, not the system, that has failed.
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2004
seanibu said:
Excellent idea. Look at casinos, they have watchers who watch the watchers who watch the watchers. I think it would be more professional than to arbitrarily cut one.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Actually, the ISU does have a fairly elaborate procedure in place for "judging the judges." Here is the document (ISU communication #1327, revising ISU communication #1275).lisadotdash said:
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-167680-184898-91843-0-file,00.pdf
(If this direct link doesn't work, go to the ISU main page, click on ISU Communications on the menu on the left, then scroll down to 1327.)
Basically, it says that after each event, and at the end of the season, all the scores of all the judges are analyzed. If any judge has three or more instances of being "way out of line," then there is a hearing at which the judge must justify his/her marks. There is also a kind of "judges' overseer" who has the power to say that the judge who was out of line was right, and the other judges were wrong.
All of this is worked out in quite careful detail.
This judging evaluation procedure, BTW, is the one clear advantage I can see in anonymous judging. The panel that sits in judgement of the judges does not know the identity of the judge whose scores are under review.
MM
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2006
"End of the year / season / compatition review"
This might be too little to late, "who cares now, I'm moving to Cuba! Cause France gave me 1 Mill. and the Godfather gave me 60 for giving the bookies some edge, I'm sipp'n umbrella drinks while my kids go to home school on my new yacht." I know I am over exaggerating.
As far as the, "what might change" we should keep giving some good constructive criticism and see who will listen once this thread is read / sent. - JAT
Could be ready, yet the "2 separate panel judges (Tech / Art) haven't received to much feedback. I think more on that might be beneficial to the "Skate pro" and the "I know what I like to watch" spectators. I know I started the "question on this post" but It really isn't a "fresh unreviewed thought." The question maybe, "how will people react to this," or where do we draw the line?"
This might be too little to late, "who cares now, I'm moving to Cuba! Cause France gave me 1 Mill. and the Godfather gave me 60 for giving the bookies some edge, I'm sipp'n umbrella drinks while my kids go to home school on my new yacht." I know I am over exaggerating.
As far as the, "what might change" we should keep giving some good constructive criticism and see who will listen once this thread is read / sent. - JAT
Could be ready, yet the "2 separate panel judges (Tech / Art) haven't received to much feedback. I think more on that might be beneficial to the "Skate pro" and the "I know what I like to watch" spectators. I know I started the "question on this post" but It really isn't a "fresh unreviewed thought." The question maybe, "how will people react to this," or where do we draw the line?"
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- Joined
- Mar 19, 2006
The Kiss and Cry???
What about having everyone wait until the end of all competitors? I like that it is "relatively" unique to FS, but is it a crucial aspect to have people leave when they know there not in the top slots?
Put in the scores and wait 'til they're ALL done?
Some people think that it is just something to watch while the next skater is warming up.
Maybe a whole new post, think it has to do with a change in scoring though.
What about having everyone wait until the end of all competitors? I like that it is "relatively" unique to FS, but is it a crucial aspect to have people leave when they know there not in the top slots?
Put in the scores and wait 'til they're ALL done?
Some people think that it is just something to watch while the next skater is warming up.
Maybe a whole new post, think it has to do with a change in scoring though.
M
mylastduchess
Guest
have level for the PCS aswell so for lets say choreo have a PCS specialist rate a program and give it a level then the judges could give a positive or negative GOE on it aswell. For example Plushenko's Choreo is very front loaded with little transition get a level 2 for example, markwise he get a 4, therefor the rest of the judges could only give hime marks between that range - is that complicated enough?
Also have the skaters skate in reverse oreder according to they're placement from the short program - its just more exciting this way!
Also have the skaters skate in reverse oreder according to they're placement from the short program - its just more exciting this way!
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