Where would their skating be now if....

[ilovepaydays]

Here is what I hope is a interesting (but not too brutal) thread.

Skaters have left coaches (and went back to them) and some people think that purely affected their career. But would their career have different results if they had stayed where they were? Or made the changes sooner?

I am only putting a few skaters down because I don't want this post (or the answers) to get too long.

Where would their skating be if....

Michelle Kwan....
had never left Frank Carroll?
stayed with Scott Williams?

Sasha Cohen..
stayed with Tarasova?
stayed with Robin Wagner?
never left John Nicks?

Michael Weiss...
had stayed with Audrey Weisigner?

Timothy Goebel...
things had worked out with Frank?
he had went to Audrey about a year earlier?

Yoshie Onda...
had stayed with Audrey Weisinger?

 

[ilovepaydays]

Here are my answers:

Where would their skating be if....

Michelle Kwan....
had never left Frank Carroll? I think SLC would have turned out the same and she would have left him eventually anyway.
stayed with Scott Williams? I don't think her skating would have improved. Going to Rafael was a good move.

Sasha Cohen..
stayed with Tarasova? her skating would be the same.
stayed with Robin Wagner? not doing as well.
never left John Nicks? her skating would be better (even though she is in good shape) now. She even would have won a World title.

Michael Weiss...
had stayed with Audrey Weisigner? skating would be the same.

Timothy Goebel...
things had worked out with Frank? hmm.....a hard one. Sometimes I think his skating would be better now but maybe having the same coach as Evan would have too many conflicts.
he had went to Audrey about a year earlier? Overall, I think his skating would be much better.

Yoshie Onda...
had stayed with Audrey Weisinger? Wouldn't be going to Turino anyway but would have skated better.

 

[JonnyCoop]

re. Kwan/Carroll:

IMO, breaking from Carroll when she did cost her the gold in SLC. When she broke from Carroll, she also by association broke with Lori Nichol, who had created her finest programs and would have created another fine one for SLC. So instead Michelle showed up for SLC with a long program, that IMHO from a choreography standpoint was "just OK" I truly believe that if Nichol had choreographed her long program that season, she would have had JUST enough of that extra artistic edge to squeak by for the gold; no, Michelle did not skate her best there, but remember how close the results actually were; I think just a little bit of extra in the artistry department would have put her over Slutskaya in the long and won her the gold.

 

[Mathman]

Michelle had broken off working with Lori Nichols several months before separating from Frank Caroll.

 

[JonnyCoop]

Michelle had broken off working with Lori Nichols several months before separating from Frank Caroll.

That I didn't know, but I suppose it makes sense, given that she broke up with Carroll not long before Skate America, when her new program was already in place. Well, regardless, I still feel that Kwan seperating from Nichol was a bigger mistake than seperating from Carroll.

 

[ilovepaydays]

So can a skater only work with Lori Nichol if they are coached by Frank Carroll? Is that why Tim worked with Tarasova? Because he COULDN'T work with Lori anymore when he and Frank split? I am wondering if Tarasova's progam will work wonders for him.

 

[Mathman]

Lori has lots of clients, with many different coaches.

But Frank Carroll was the coach that arranged for her to work with Michelle, which was the collaboration that put Nichol on the map, so to speak. So I think Lori N. still has a warm spot in her heart for Frank.

OT, did you know that Lori skated in John Curry's tour in the 1980s?

MM

 

[Ladskater]

In figure skating, especially in competitive skating, there are a lot of what ifs. Some skaters stay their entire career with the same coach and have great results or not, some move from coach to coach and have great results or not. One can't really speculate because of the nature of competitng and the ups and downs of life.

Brian Orser spent years asking himself all the "what ifs" after the Calagary Olympics in 1988. He never really got over the stigma attached to coming second - in my books a silver medalist is still tops. However, he felt he let everyone down, but that is not true.

As with anything in life the what ifs always come into question at some point. Nothing is ever written in stone or guaranteed. Skaters make decisions - good or bad just like everyone else. Sometimes changing coaches is good. It gives a skater new directions and a fresh outlook.

I don't think there is really an answer to your question. It just is.

 

[SkateFan4Life]

The "What ifs" of figure skating could fill a very large volume, I believe. I think we will never know what might have or might not have happened, if all the scenarios listed in this thread had happened. Who knows for sure?

Do we really know for sure that it would have made any difference if Michelle had not left Frank Carroll just prior to Salt Lake City? Maybe she would have had the motivation she needed to skate for the gold medal, but maybe it would have not made any difference. Frankly, I thought it was bizarre of her to compete at the Olympics (for Pete's sakes!) without a primary coach, but I can't jump inside her head to understand why she made that decision. I'm sure she had reasons for this change.

As far as Brian Orser at the 1988 Olympics is concerned, he simply wasn't able to deal with the pressure of skating in his home country, as his country's main gold-medal hope, and as the defending World Champion. Orser skated two great programs, but his long program was flawed - a botched triple flip, and he doubled his second planned triple axel. Make no mistake, Brian doesn't owe anyone an apology. He represented Canada with great skill and class for many years.