Who is the greatest COMPETITOR?

[dutchherder]

Kwan-- when she had that "game face" on, you knew she'd kick butt.
Rena Inoue, Brian Boitano, Scott Hamilton, Katarina Witt, Kristi Yamaguchi, Alexei Yagudin, Evgeni Plushenko, Tara Lipinski. Johnny Weir *used* to be; I hope he will be again.

 

[BBI*CEO]

Elvis Stojko came to mind first for me - his always concentrated and focused mindset and his ability to fight through his pain of injuries and keep going!

 

[dizzydi7]

Who is the greatest competitor?

Just judging by number of national and world titles, Kwan has to be one of the greatest.

As far as strategy, determination and intimidation, Witt is definitely a member of that club. The other who comes to mind is Slutskaya as her determination to overcome her illness and come back with such success is amazing.

Personally, I don't think Kimmie can even be mentioned yet. She seems to be a great competitor and very focused but just doesn't have much of a track record to backup a "greatest" title, IMHO. So far this year, she hasn't proved this as far as I'm concerned.

With skating, sometimes just hanging in there when others mess up can earn you a title, like in the case of Sarah Hughes. In my opinion, that doesn't earn the title of "greatest".

Dizzy

 

[SeaniBu]

Personally, I don't think Kimmie can even be mentioned yet. She seems to be a great competitor and very focused but just doesn't have much of a track record to backup a "greatest" title, IMHO. So far this year, she hasn't proved this as far as I'm concerned.

:agree: I think she needs more time to earn that "title." But she will IMO. She definitely came to mind.

BTW I like the way you broke them down into groups / explanations. It is hard to say what peoples view of the term might mean. "One that always rises to the top" or / to "one who continues to fight even thought they don't ever seem to win." ??? Ah relativity....

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

BTW I like the way you broke them down into groups / explanations. It is hard to say what peoples view of the term might mean. "One that always rises to the top" or / to "one who continues to fight even thought they don't ever seem to win." ??? Ah relativity....

Nicely put. It has nothing to do with medals and favorites. It is the skater(s) who can take to the ice and give their standard 'best' competitive skate. Skaters who fall under pressure at the big competitions are not great competitors.

That doesn't mean they are not great performers.

Joe

 

[rain]

The ones that popped to my mind immediately were Elvis Stojko and Michelle Kwan. The two most consistent skaters of all time, IMO. These two never seemed to let the competition faze them, no matter the event.

Katarina Witt was known for her mind games, and skating well enough to win in any given situation, so I'd have to include her as well. Yagudin is another that comes to mind. With Plushenko always on his heels he never crumbled. Boitano and Orser both performed amazingly through the most hyped men's Olympic final ever, so these guys make the list.

I have to disagree with those who say Gritshuk/Platov. Great competitors? Not really any evidence to say. By that I mean that after they won their Olympic title they were never in a position where they were legitimately threatened to lose a competition, even when they fell, or had less than stellar programs. It's easy to go out and skate all out when you know the title is all sewn up.

I think Shen/Zhao are great competitors in pairs. Whether they skate well or not usually tends to be a question of injury/illness, not whether they are psyched out by the competition or the event. Artur Dimitriev was a fantastic competitor in pairs, winning world and Olympic medals with two partners.

 

[flying camel]

Kwan, Hughes, Lipinski, Yamaguchi, Zhang, Boitano, Browning.

A good competitior to me is someone who is able to put the pressure of the competition behind them and just skate. I know Kwan and Browning were not successful at the Olympics, but they had so many great skates at Worlds and other competitions. There is no way I could exclude them.

 

[kyla2]

My Pick

Sonia Henie had very little competition-it was a walk for her in most of her competitions so I can't honestly pick her. I would say Michelle Kwan, Kristi Yamaguchi,and this pains me because I have so little regard for her as a person, Katarina Witt. Dick Button, Yagudin, and Brian Boitano for the men.

 

[R.D.]

As far as great competitors go, I'd have to go with Lipinski, Kwan during her prime (read: 1998-2001), and Witt. I'd also say Sarah Hughes but she did go out with a "fizz" (in the 03 season). But during her prime (2001 up to SLC) I'd say she was a good competitor.

I see a great competitor as not necessarily delivering masterpiece after masterpiece, but one that can control her nerves when the stakes are very high. This is the main reason I put emphasis on the Olympics. I think they are truly a test of how well you can handle those nerves. Anyone who can deliver a solid performance on Olympic ice (during the FS) is a good competitor IMO. And this includes our current Olympic champion Shizuka Arakawa.

 

[hockeyfan228]

Kwan-- when she had that "game face" on, you knew she'd kick butt.

But she didn't always have that "game face" on, and that is where she did fall short. Cohen also was brilliant when she had the "game face" on, almost always before her short programs. When she had the "deer in the headlights" look, almost always before her long programs, then you knew it was over before it started.

I agree that Kwan is one step down from the greatest competitors, because she didn't do her best at either Olympics, being neither sick nor injured (like Stoyko, Browning, and Cadavy for example). I don't think Slutskaya is the greatest competitor, either. She was brilliant with a lead (placements under 6.0, points under CoP), but not brilliant from behind or in close contests. I think Witt was the greatest competitor among the women, because she could psych out athletes with more technical content who skated after she skated beatable performances.

 

[chuckm]

Sorry, I don't see Kwan as one step down from the greatest competitors. She skated BRILLIANTLY at the 1998 Olympics, so it was no disgrace to win silver there with that performance (which would certainly have won gold in 2006).

Any skater who can win 5 World Championships, 9 US Championships and 2 Olympic medals HAS to be considered one of the greatest competitors of all times.

Same case for Kurt Browning. He won so many competitions that his failure to win an Olympic medal is no biggie. No skater is going to win every competition he/she enters. Tara Lipinski sure didn't, and Nationals 1998 was a prime example. Tara lost 1996 Worlds to Kwan, and she didn't win several of her GP events.

If you're going to deny Kwan as a great competitor, then you have to strike Irina Slutskaya from the list as well, since she won only two World Championships and didn't win any of the 3 Olympics at which she competed. AND ELvis Stojko, who never won the OGM.

 

[SeaniBu]

If you're going to deny Kwan as a great competitor, then you have to strike Irina Slutskaya from the list as well, since she won only two World Championships and didn't win any of the 3 Olympics at which she competed. AND ELvis Stojko, who never won the OGM.

I wouldn't (she was a great without doubt :agree: )but in comparison of what had to be overcome in their personal life as well as in the rink, Rene and Ira - and others - had challenges that I am unaware of MK having, to a "life threatening" degree anyway. But I may not know something???? That is the reason I didn't pick her for this one in particular. Champions list a BIG yes for MK.

I think it is really what people conceder definition of....

 

[euterpe]

The question was who are the greatest competitors--in figure skating--not those who overcame the greatest challenges in their non-skating life.

Those are two different qualities. Angela Nikodinov had to overcome one challenge after another, but on the ice she was never a great competitor. Same for Jenny Kirk.

By that definition, the pampered Sarah Hughes has never had a serious challenge other than a few extra pounds so she wouldn't fit Seanibu's criteria. Sasha Cohen has had no challenges she hasn't brought on herself, and she isn't a great competitor on the ice either.

Why not stick to the original question, instead of steering the discussion down an alley where it doesn't belong.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Kwan didn't always skate her best but she never folded in competition due to pressure. Not even with painful injuries. Many other skaters do. I think that is what this thread is about. Not medals.

Joe

 

[SeaniBu]

The question was who are the greatest competitors--in figure skating--not those who overcame the greatest challenges in their non-skating life.

Open to that interpretation, but if you ask as a general question, people came up (for me anyway) with examples like Lance Armstrong and the likes. And what happens in all aspects of ones life is counting them as a whole to me as well. It is cause and effect really. What make a person a person. JMO

But agree with different takes on the term. The way others are defining it is closer to the true term then I am anyway. I am going more with the "heart of..." rather then the "rivalry" aspect. Just my take on it. You guys are getting it right IMO. No argument, just diff.
:agree:

By that definition, the pampered Sarah Hughes has never had a serious challenge other than a few extra pounds so she wouldn't fit Seanibu's criteria. Sasha Cohen has had no challenges she hasn't brought on herself, and she isn't a great competitor on the ice either.

I completely agree.

...instead of steering the discussion down an alley where it doesn't belong.

Dido, but no need to start that stuff again.

 

[emma]

Kwan didn't always skate her best but she never folded in competition due to pressure. Not even with painful injuries. Many other skaters do. I think that is what this thread is about. Not medals.

Joe

ITA - it's just that never folding during the pressure of competition is most obvious among those that also win or at least medal often and who have put at least a few years in for comparison. When I first saw this thread, Kwan, Plushenko, Shen and Zhao, Artur Demitriev and partners, and Stephan Lambiel all came to mind for slightly different reasons. I do think from what we have seen in the last year that Kimmie might be a fierce competitor, I just don't think she has enough senior years in yet to be sure.

I also thought later of skaters like Mike Weis, who perhaps not as good or as perfect or maybe even as talented as some of the gold medal winners, was nonetheless a very dependable competitor and often skated clean or fairly clean when the frontrunners fell all over the place.

I suspect that there might be a number of competitors in the top 12 over the years that are great competitors but not as talented as the top six - I just don't know them off the top of my head.

 

[euterpe]

I think Worlds 2004 showed just how great a competitor Kwan is. She finished 3rd in her QR, was placed 4th in the SP because she took a time deduction, and was confronted with an intruder on the ice when she went out to do her FS. Did she pack it in? No, she gave a bravura performance and finished 2nd in the FS to pull out a bronze medal.

She knew she couldn't win, but she still gave it her all.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

She knew she couldn't win, but she still gave it her all.

And everyone should agree that is the definition of a great competitor!!

Joe

 

[R.D.]

I think Worlds 2004 showed just how great a competitor Kwan is. She finished 3rd in her QR, was placed 4th in the SP because she took a time deduction, and was confronted with an intruder on the ice when she went out to do her FS. Did she pack it in? No, she gave a bravura performance and finished 2nd in the FS to pull out a bronze medal.

^ that's a good point and I completely forgot about that. Yes, that definitely works in her favor as far as being a strong competitor is concerned. However, I have to say half of it probably is just experience. I mean, hadn't she been competing for 10+ years at that point...near the top? Lots of other skaters would have just folded, but they don't have anywhere near the experience that she does.

 

[SeaniBu]

And everyone should agree that is the definition of a great competitor!!

Joe

:agree: :agree: :agree: That was exactly why my vote went Irina's way, she new she wouldn't win - got 9th via doing the best she could at the moment. She put aside everything else going on in her life (not an easy task for anyone on most levels) as she re-entered the rink and got what she got, and was content. And it didn't stop her from going on for more.