Why do you dislike Navka/Kostomarov?

[gkelly]

TOSCA!

Navka & Kostamarov skated to "E lucevan le stelle" from Tosca.

They never skated to "Nessun Dorma" or any other selections from Turandot, MUCH more overused than Tosca.

And personally I prefer the Tosca music quite a bit, it would make me happy if more skaters don't use that instead of Turandot.
But I guess if you just don't like that kind of music to begin with, it all sounds the same.

 

[clairecloutier]

Navka & Kostomarov are a good team. The trouble is, they're winning far too easily over all the other good dance teams. This naturally annoys fans of the other teams. That's why there are so many negative comments about Nav/Kos (in my opinion anyway). It's not really that people dislike Nav/Kos. Rather, they dislike how the judges favor and overmark them.

I agree that Nav/Kos have wonderful line and elegance. But, they do tend to make mistakes quite often (especially Roman). Plus, I don't think they have nearly the level of connection and emotional quality in their partnering that some of the other teams have, especially Tanith & Ben and Del & Schoen. You just don't get the sense that they're really melding together as a team. Here is what I mean by this: I can easily imagine either Navka or Kosto skating with other partners. Whereas, it is difficult to imagine Tanith or Ben skating with anyone else, and the same for both the D/S teams.

I also agree with other posters that while Nav/Kos are great, they don't bring a whole lot of originality or excitement to ice dance. As with Totmianina/Marinin in pairs, you get the feeling that they are simply carrying on the Russian tradition of skating excellence, but not really bringing anything new or innovative to it. Hence, the lack of excitement about their skating.

Also interesting are the comments about Zhulin. I doubt this is seriously affecting Nav/Kos's popularity with fans. Nonetheless, I must admit that I do always think of the whole Zhulin history whenever I see Nav/Kos skate. And, since it's a rather unsavory history, I cannot say it makes me feel more positively about Nav/Kos.

 

[curious]

they are a very talented pair,certainly the most elegant. they may not have a great connection with each other in some people's eyes,but they have it with the people that matters most the judges

 

[chuckm]

I agree with the poster who said that N/K are good but not one of the greats---and they are scored as if they WERE one of the greats. Their PCS scores are so high they will always be kept firmly in first place.

Ever notice that Susie Wynne keeps talking about their "leg line"? If that's the main reason they are #1, it's totally absurd.

And last season, "Tosca" certainly was not 'dance' music. If any other couple had used that music, they would have been marked down for it.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I've noticed Susy Wynne constantly talking about twizzles both ways and whether the twizzles are close enough. The long Ninotchka legs are new to me this season but no reason given for making them a higher dance score. (I would think they should ban skaters with short legs.)

I think Suzie plays it cool and does not put anyone down for fear that the judges may not do the same. No power of conviction from her but that may be how she's been directed at ABC.

Joe

 

[Shanti]

Thanks everyone for the feedback, and quite a special "thank you" to Brad Your post made my day brighter

I really like Navkos, I can't say they are my all-time favourites (Gritchuk/Platov are) but I find them classy, elegant and refined.

My comments are not to cause a huge argument and they are definitely NOT addressed at any of you.
I do agree that scoring and judging in ice dances is/seems to be quite obscure at times. But it is somehow strange to "blame" winners for their victories, isn't it?
BTW, in ballroom dances there are even no scores, only placements, and sometimes even "closed placement" so final placements are announced only at the very end of a competition, after all dances. And there are no great scandals.
N/K programs are easier than their rivals': actually (generally) not. And if they make it look easy - it's just a great compliment to them. Not everything easy-looking is really easy. As to their lifts that many people (rightfully) consider ugly - every team does them. Such are the requirements. These elements get high scores.
No experiments? They are athletes, they want to win! Are you sure judges will welcome the experiments? ... *trying to remember what was the latest experiment in ice dance* ... maybe Krylova/Ovsyannikov's 1999 FD to African drums? Most fans were confused. N/K are not innovative? They chose "Tosca" as their music and many called this music not danceable.
Dislike Navka because she's a beautiful Diva? Makes no sense. Since when it's better to be plain :scratch:

ETA: Ninotchka Who's this?

Distance between partners in twizzles is one of the main (along with synchronism and speed) criteria for evaluating them.

 

[gkelly]

I think Denkova/Stavisky and somewhat Delobel/Schoenfelder have been more "experimental" among the current teams.

I don't really think of any of these teams as all-time greats, I'm not even sure I'd put Anissina/Peizerat in that category, and they're the only candidate in my mind so far in the 21st century. But someone has to win.

I guess we'll have a different perspective eventually with the perspective of history after more years have passed.

 

[attyfan]

... ETA: Ninotchka Who's this? ...

.

The only "Ninotchka" that I know of is a character in a movie. The original, "Ninotchka" starred Greta Garbo in the title role. It was re-made into a musical ("Silk Stockings") with Cyd Charisse (talk about long legs on a dancer, though)

 

[soogar]

ITA that more badboys (and gals) would certainly make things more interesting. Zhulin reminds me of a little toad and IMO fate has been very kind to him as far as beautiful women go (Usova and Navka that is...I don't get Gritchuk either,LOL).

Zhulin a toad????!!! He was and is an absolute fox.

I'm not a N&K fan, but I haven't liked ice dance since 1998. I thought Lobacheva and Averbukh were horrible ice dancers compared to the great USSR teams of the past and N&K just reflect that downward spiral. Though I do consider Navka to be one of the most elegant ladies in ice dancing (after Gruschina) and she looks like a ballroom dancer out there.

 

[tdnuva]

TOSCA!

Navka & Kostamarov skated to "E lucevan le stelle" from Tosca.

You are right. With my mistake you can see how much I blocked that routine out of my head... lol

 

[emma]

I am one of those rare skating fans NOT opposed to 'war horses'...Turandot, Tosca or otherwise...but I really disliked their cut of Tosca, and could never get into their dance of it for some reason (that I can't elaborate on...just a feeling...); but i think they are a great team, and i don't understand dance rules enough to couch judge myself, and I only ever catch the free dance on tv (so i don't have the other two segments of the competition to compare to), and I also like the D/S's, and admire B/A's improvement and rise but enjoy watching L/T more than them...and that's ALL I can say about ice dance other than I wish I had more time to learn more about, and more tv coverage of it as well.

 

[lulu]

Interesting about the Russian media liking Navka much more than Kostomarov. I had heard the same thing too. And if you go on navkos.narod.ru; there seem to be much more interviews w/ Navka & Zhulin than Navka & Kostomarov. Can anyone explain why?
Is it because the press thinks that Roman is not at Navka's skill level/not a worthy partner for her? Is it because Navka is from the old Dubova school of Ice Dancing, and has been around since the Klimova/Ponomarenko era? Is it because she's married to Zhulin?
Thanks

 

[Shanti]

It's true that Navka gets much more media attention than Roman. It's not because he is disliked, just there's nothing interesting in him (besides his sports achievements, of course . At least now. Some years ago he was an ...erm... complicated person, according to his offended ex-partner Anna Semenovich). But now he's interviewed and spoken of only when there're some competitions.
Navka attracts much more attention because of her off-ice personality and, of course, Zhulin. I'm sure it has nothing to do with skating.
She is admired and praised as a woman who found her love and happiness along with exceptional sports carreer. I have never read a single article blaming her past "immoral" behaviour, on the contrary, it is stressed that she and Zhulin managed to ignore people's negative attitude towards them and now they're a happy family.

There was a great article about all three of them about two years ago. I remember two points from it:
- When Navka and Roman just started to skate together he was very impatient and when something went wrong during the practice he would start shouting and throwing things at her. *how verrrry rrrude*
- When they have some arguments on ice Zhulin would always take Roman's side

 

[Eeyora]

I have nothing against them. I do think out of all the top teams today they have the "it" factor. However I just don't consider them legends. They don't impress me like Torvill and Dean, Klimova and Ponamarenko or Annisina and Peizerat.

 

[Ladskater]

No comment on N&K - can't place them at the moment. Personally I think D&L are one of the most stunning couples on ice today. I saw them in person at Worlds in Vancouver 2001. They are absolutely gorgeous.

http://www.dubreuil-lauzon.com/photos-worlds05.php

 

[lulu]

Tatiana Navka & Roman Kostomarov are the reigning World Champions in Ice Dance, having also won the previous year.
Two sites about N&K are:
http://www.icedance.com/navka (offical English site)
& http://navkos.narod.ru (a Russian fansite)

No comment on N&K - can't place them at the moment. Personally I think D&L are one of the most stunning couples on ice today. I saw them in person at Worlds in Vancouver 2001. They are absolutely gorgeous.

http://www.dubreuil-lauzon.com/photos-worlds05.php

-Thanks Shanti for the overview of the Russian Press & NavKos.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Tatiana Navka & Roman Kostomarov are the reigning World Champions in Ice Dance, having also won the previous year.
Two sites about N&K are:
http://www.icedance.com/navka (offical English site)
& http://navkos.narod.ru (a Russian fansite)

-Thanks Shanti for the overview of the Russian Press & NavKos.

And Sarah Hughes is the Olympic Champion. Soooo? It doesn't mean you have to adore the winner.

Joe

 

[ATW27]

And Sarah Hughes is the Olympic Champion. Soooo? It doesn't mean you have to adore the winner.

Joe

Joe, I think Lulu was simply replying to Ladskater, who said she couldn't recall N&K at this moment; I don't think she was trying to say "they are the reigning Worlds Champions, worship them!" At least, that's how I read it.

Andy W.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Joe, I think Lulu was simply replying to Ladskater, who said she couldn't recall N&K at this moment; I don't think she was trying to say "they are the reigning Worlds Champions, worship them!" At least, that's how I read it.

Andy W.

Whoops, I jumped the gun. Thanks Andy. Sorry about that. I'll be more careful in future.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

But that does point up the main problem for this couple, IMHO. They do not call attention to themselves (like the flamboyant Anassina and Peiserat, for instance). When they take to the ice a lot of people say, "who's that?"

MM