Why skating in the U.S. is strugglng

[concorde]

Another point that needs to be addressed. Young children across America are taught to be politically correct (PC) where everyone gets the "participant" trophy. It is hard to go from PC in most activities to "win" in a select few.

 

[Mathman]

Another point that needs to be addressed. Young children across America are taught to be politically correct (PC) where everyone gets the "participant" trophy. It is hard to go from PC in most activities to "win" in a select few.

I think it's a question of balance. "PC" has become a dirty word, but I don't really see anything incorrect about encouraging children to participate in sports for the fun of it. At the opposite extreme is "win at any cost" -- sabotaging your rivals equipment, taking performance enhancing drugs, etc.

 

[Poodlepal]

Interesting article. One of the commenters brought up an interesting point: the US has never supported figure skaters as they would be in communist countries, yet from 1961 to 2006, someone was always on the podium. So why is it different now? My guesses:

1. It just got way, way more expensive all of a sudden, with prices for ice time, costumes, etc. shooting up. Not a skater, so I can't confirm my suspicion, though.

2. New scoring is so much more fair than old scoring. Now that it's not as political, the US judges can't call in favors like they used to to get our girls on the podium. This suggests that there was something dicy about some of the past winners--not prepared to believe that.

3. New scoring is so much less fair than old scoring. American hating judges can conveniently overlook UR's and bad edges on the Russian or Japanese girls of the moment, but an American gets away with nothing. I suspect that may be the case, but again, can't confirm.

4. Sport suddenly got very popular in certain countries, just more competition. Countries do rise and fall dramatically (China in pairs, for example, and US and Canada in dance).

5. Kids are different. There are less girls willing to give up school, friends, etc. to compete. As a teacher in a girls' school, I noticed a change in my students around 2006, when cell phones that had media on them became common. Maybe it affected the teen girls at the rink as well.

6. Or, what I think the answer probably is-- the US has just a bad run of chokers and people with some sort of flaw. Ashley and Gracie came in 2nd and 3rd in the long program. One or both should have been on the podium, but that would involve putting 2 good programs together in the same competition.

However, the bad run of chokers that preceded them: Mirai, Caroline, Alissa, Rachael--probably turned off interest in the sport, which turned off the pipeline of girls who want to compete. A shame, either way. But not the fault of the government.

 

[concorde]

I don't really see anything incorrect about encouraging children to participate in sports for the fun of it.

I agree with this up to a certain point. But here we are talking about how to make US competitors win at the international level and having fun just won't cut it. You also cannot not expect a child to have the "participate" attitude one day and then wake up the next day with the "win" attitude. I grew up with two academic parents who were extremely supportive of me and my siblings but they never really encouraged the "win" attitude. It was always "tomorrow is a new day." While I have done well, I know that I never gave things my all because I wanted save something for tomorrow. Hope that makes sense.

Whereas in Russia, young children know that the path to a better future is winning.

 

[treeloving]

Wow I can't believes some of the comments here, especially after the performance of Gracie and Ashley today. You know winning is not everything...

 

[Weathergal]

I think there's a time and place for both attitudes. But for most kids in most pursuits--be it figure skating, basketball, chess club, music, whatever--they AREN'T going to be top dog, they aren't going to compete at anywhere near the top level, they're not going to make a career out of it. That is OK as long as you and your child are clear about WHY they're involved in something. Everything doesn't HAVE to be goal oriented. Doing something just for the sake of it and having fun is really OK. (Well, I guess you could argue that is a goal...) I don't think this is the same thing as saying everyone is a winner or anything of that nonsense. Quite the opposite actually. Acknowledging that the activity you or your child is participating in isn't part of some grand plan to be a champion because although you might be good, but you're not that good, is healthy! If you're in skating or whatever because you want to be a champion someday, well, then that requires a different approach.

 

[andyjo24]

Looks like the ceiling for the U.S. is 4th place, as always. Ugh.

 

[Miss Ice]

Looks like the ceiling for the U.S. is 4th place, as always. Ugh.

I am not even a fan, but I would have placed Gracie in 3rd. 5/9 judges coming from the Soviet satellite states, hmm... :think:

I think the American ladies did well today, actually!

 

[R.D.]

Looks like the ceiling for the U.S. is 4th place, as always. Ugh.

4th is the new 1st

 

[Jammers]

Interesting article. One of the commenters brought up an interesting point: the US has never supported figure skaters as they would be in communist countries, yet from 1961 to 2006, someone was always on the podium. So why is it different now? My guesses:

1. It just got way, way more expensive all of a sudden, with prices for ice time, costumes, etc. shooting up. Not a skater, so I can't confirm my suspicion, though.

2. New scoring is so much more fair than old scoring. Now that it's not as political, the US judges can't call in favors like they used to to get our girls on the podium. This suggests that there was something dicy about some of the past winners--not prepared to believe that.

3. New scoring is so much less fair than old scoring. American hating judges can conveniently overlook UR's and bad edges on the Russian or Japanese girls of the moment, but an American gets away with nothing. I suspect that may be the case, but again, can't confirm.

4. Sport suddenly got very popular in certain countries, just more competition. Countries do rise and fall dramatically (China in pairs, for example, and US and Canada in dance).

5. Kids are different. There are less girls willing to give up school, friends, etc. to compete. As a teacher in a girls' school, I noticed a change in my students around 2006, when cell phones that had media on them became common. Maybe it affected the teen girls at the rink as well.

6. Or, what I think the answer probably is-- the US has just a bad run of chokers and people with some sort of flaw. Ashley and Gracie came in 2nd and 3rd in the long program. One or both should have been on the podium, but that would involve putting 2 good programs together in the same competition.

However, the bad run of chokers that preceded them: Mirai, Caroline, Alissa, Rachael--probably turned off interest in the sport, which turned off the pipeline of girls who want to compete. A shame, either way. But not the fault of the government.

I wasn't a fan of Flatt but she was never a choker. if only Gracie had Rachael's competitive nerves Gold would have been on the podium today.

 

[NAOTMAA]

I wasn't a fan of Flatt but she was never a choker. if only Gracie had Rachael's competitive nerves Gold would have been on the podium today.

Rachel's competitive guts, Ashley's determination and Gracie's natural talent......too bad their three girls instead of one

I think in the last 10 years there have been girls with certain great qualities but unfortunately not the whole package

 

[UnsaneLily87]

Interesting article. One of the commenters brought up an interesting point: the US has never supported figure skaters as they would be in communist countries, yet from 1961 to 2006, someone was always on the podium. So why is it different now? My guesses:

1. It just got way, way more expensive all of a sudden, with prices for ice time, costumes, etc. shooting up. Not a skater, so I can't confirm my suspicion, though.

2. New scoring is so much more fair than old scoring. Now that it's not as political, the US judges can't call in favors like they used to to get our girls on the podium. This suggests that there was something dicy about some of the past winners--not prepared to believe that.

3. New scoring is so much less fair than old scoring. American hating judges can conveniently overlook UR's and bad edges on the Russian or Japanese girls of the moment, but an American gets away with nothing. I suspect that may be the case, but again, can't confirm.

4. Sport suddenly got very popular in certain countries, just more competition. Countries do rise and fall dramatically (China in pairs, for example, and US and Canada in dance).

5. Kids are different. There are less girls willing to give up school, friends, etc. to compete. As a teacher in a girls' school, I noticed a change in my students around 2006, when cell phones that had media on them became common. Maybe it affected the teen girls at the rink as well.

6. Or, what I think the answer probably is-- the US has just a bad run of chokers and people with some sort of flaw. Ashley and Gracie came in 2nd and 3rd in the long program. One or both should have been on the podium, but that would involve putting 2 good programs together in the same competition.

However, the bad run of chokers that preceded them: Mirai, Caroline, Alissa, Rachael--probably turned off interest in the sport, which turned off the pipeline of girls who want to compete. A shame, either way. But not the fault of the government.

1. I don't think skating is more expensive--but I think the economy is worse.
3. I think anonymous judging makes this impossible to disprove although also impossible to prove.

But that last one is the big one--there's a reason girls are RUNNING into gymnastics gyms--because we've been so dominate there recently. Everyone wants to be like Shawn or Gabby now!

 

[Skater Boy]

I don't really think skating is strugging for the Americans. USA qualified the most skaters of any nation getting full teams or spots in all events but pairs and even then they did a very credible and strong 7th. USA is the favorites for the WTT with a complete team. The ladies look like they could podium easily with some consistent skates in Gold and Wagner. Brown is coming along nicely and Rippon and Farris gained some good experience and they still have Max. Polina is looking strong and decent. Meanwhile thier competitors other than the japanese ladies all are having issues. Russia's ladies are being attacked by puberty. The Russian pairs don't have the tech skills and their dance teams are in shambles or developing or rebuilding. The Canadian singles skaters are rebuilding. Japan's men are in a bit of a mess. Medals are around the corner with Brown and or Rippon and Farris or Abbott and or Aaron. The ladies have tonnes of talent in the top three with others knocking on the door. Pairs is looking decent and with quad twists watch out. Dance they have two medal contending teams in Chock and Bates and the Shibs.

 

[Jammers]

Perhaps Worlds being in Boston next year will be what pushes the US ladies over the top. A couple days ago it looked like we were going to lose the 3rd spot with the Ladies and the Men but they gutted it out today and showed some toughness. I think the US team is set up nicely next year in Boston. Heck in the end we ended up with the most spots for Worlds. Russia other then the Ladies doesn't look that tough though Pairs will be a strength again next year with S/K and perhaps V/T and a young team on the rise in T/M.

 

[Mathman]

4th is the new 1st

:thumbsup:

 

[LyraAngelica]

Looks like the ceiling for the U.S. is 4th place, as always. Ugh.

It's shame when people are calling keeping 3 spots a reason to celebrate. These athletes need better mental toughness so they are giving their best in every competition.

Sorry not sorry but all the excuses they give are overrated.

 

[sabinfire]

It's shame when people are calling keeping 3 spots a reason to celebrate. These athletes need better mental toughness so they are giving their best in every competition.

Sorry not sorry but all the excuses they give are overrated.

ITA. National Champs and a World Team should be selected with skaters who have competitive fire and the heart of a champion, where winning is the only goal to set their sights on. If keeping 3 spots is exciting, or 'winning isn't everything' and they should just be happy with their 'comeback' in the free skate... well, I will let that sort of sporting mentality speak for itself...

 

[LyraAngelica]

ITA. National Champs and a World Team should be selected with skaters who have competitive fire and the heart of a champion, where winning is the only goal to set their sights on. If keeping 3 spots is exciting, or 'winning isn't everything' and they should just be happy with their 'comeback' in the free skate... well, I will let that sort of sporting mentality speak for itself...

I believe this generation of skaters is used to people accepting mediocre results and thus they have no real drive to push past whatever mental blocks they have.

 

[R.D.]

I believe this generation of skaters is used to people accepting mediocre results and thus they have no real drive to push past whatever mental blocks they have.

On the contrary, I think they felt the pressure of finally having the opportunity to win a medal and snap an extended streak staring them in the face...and it overwhelmed them. Also didn't help that each had to skate after a top Russian.

The skater who does break the streak - if it ever happens - will not be Ashley Wagner. I question whether it will be Gracie Gold (2 opportunities, 2 blown chances) but she does still have some career left and may finally learn to put it all together in that time. Edmunds hasn't broken through to the top echelon yet (who knows if it'll ever happen) but she's the only one that showed SOME determination and that is probably the only encouraging thing I saw from the entire team. If only skaters could be combined...Edmunds' fearlessness and Wagner's work ethic into the body of a Gracie Gold...there's your Tuk/Rad rival right there!

 

[Mathman]

Time magazine article. Basically repeats the same points as the Rolling Stone piece.

http://time.com/3762466/americans-not-winning-figure-skating-medals/