Women and the Quad
- Thread starter gsk8
- Start date
Also, overall, I don't think it is reasonable to bash skaters for not trying to up their tech game.
Specially in Alina`s case - she doesn't have much room to up her tech game unless she goes quad/3A, and we got to agree that is not really that easy for most ladies.
Specially in Alina`s case - she doesn't have much room to up her tech game unless she goes quad/3A, and we got to agree that is not really that easy for most ladies.
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2014
I agree with the first point but I do not agree with the second one. If there are trumps they should be shown now rather than saved for later. Yes, she jumped 3 clean quads twice in a row. This is already statistics. But both times she was exhausted enough to not deliver the combo which had been never an issue before. Now what happens if she does not land just one of the quads? The FP score will be below 160. And then comes the main point of them all: quads are not permitted in the short program while triple axels are. With a stable triple axel Sasha will be even with clean Alina and Rika after the short program. This will give her big advantage in the free program. Without a triple axel she will be tracing them both and she will have to land those quads. No she not desperately but still needs a 3A to become a truly dominant skater. But this will make it too boring - something like competitng against Nathan when his is on fire. In fact, they are very similar: mind-boggling jumps and just OK everything else.
My opinion is:
If Trusova has or soon to have 3Ax it will be used in the SP only and only if not attempting it will immediately push her 10+ points below concurrents
She may overcome the gap of 10 or even more points if all quads landed and the rest is more or less OK.
When competing with non-axelists and non-quadsters she doesn't need either axel or multiquad program. A couple of 4T is enough.
Heavy loads needed against Kihira, Liu, Lilibeth, other powers.
But Liu is not an immediate danger, they will not compete e/o till next year B-level or even GP. Another year another situation.
There is a big problem facing Kihira right now. Fighting three 3Ax with 2-3 quads and heavy combos will require all the weapons polished.
Remember Sasha's eternal PCS deficiency and Kihira's routine 9+.
If Trusova has or soon to have 3Ax it will be used in the SP only and only if not attempting it will immediately push her 10+ points below concurrents
She may overcome the gap of 10 or even more points if all quads landed and the rest is more or less OK.
When competing with non-axelists and non-quadsters she doesn't need either axel or multiquad program. A couple of 4T is enough.
Heavy loads needed against Kihira, Liu, Lilibeth, other powers.
But Liu is not an immediate danger, they will not compete e/o till next year B-level or even GP. Another year another situation.
There is a big problem facing Kihira right now. Fighting three 3Ax with 2-3 quads and heavy combos will require all the weapons polished.
Remember Sasha's eternal PCS deficiency and Kihira's routine 9+.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
The advantage for Rika is that she is 17 and pretty much done growing. She's in her adult body and has strong jumps through the 3A. I think she's in the best position of all the skaters who were seniors before this season. Three 3A's should be enough to top AK and even AS in the foreseeable future. It will be interesting to see if Trusova can maintain the consistency on the quads as she faces increasing pressure in bigger events.
Liu won't compete at the senior level until 21-22, the Olympic year.
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2017
Now I know where Eteri got her quad inspiration from! Look at same of the examples! Prerotated as hell! ...including Brandon Mroz and his heavily cheated quad lutz (Full blade, loop like and I counted just 3,25 revolutions?!?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DGyuJDk2X8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DGyuJDk2X8
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2017
I hope you would said the same about Laura Lipetsky inspiration. Well, you know, to be fair and consistent. But there is nothing about it. I wonder why? I mean it's only natural to list all couches teaching quads in "ladies quads" thread when making some generalizations
Especially considering that Laura's pupil is making ONLY heavily prerotated quads so far - while some of Eteri's puplis like Valieva are making quads with much less prerotation then 180 degree 
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
I was just giving my opinion.
Satoko also underperformed (fact), and Zagitova was overscored (my opinion) though definitely deserved the win.
Zagitova won the Olympics getting higher PCS and lost 2018 Worlds to Miyahara. So sometimes it just depends on the competition.
It is also a commonplace opinion that Miyahara is one of the most exquisite skaters in the field and my opinion is that Zagitova while intricate in terms of transitions simply doesn’t have the grace, carriage, nuances, finesse or choreography that Satoko has, even if she’s far superior technically.
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2005
Excuse me sir.
You have veered off topic and are discussing men's quads.
Kindly cease and desist.
I think that this season with the less busy programs we'll get to see a better Zagitova in terms of finesse/grace/nuances; the last 2 seasons she's had really busy programs - Olympic year everything was backloaded she was rushing the end of the program to hit all the moves 1 right after another and last season they had it so busy and she was struggling with a growth spurt.
I think your "commonplace" requires statistics, because for me, you seem to be projecting your own oppinion.
For example, I know a number of people who firmly believe that Zagitova outperforms Miyahara in most PC categories, and thus deserves higher PCs overall. Judges seem to agree with this. So, it would be fair so say that this is the common place oppinion maybe?
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2015
Well, I agree with your opinion anyway. Judges often award PCS for consistent, high tech skaters not for what skaters actually do artistically. But, if you look at how the categories should really be scored. Miyahara ( with Kostner not competing) is definitely #1. SS are beautiful. Difficult transitions that look effortless, perfectly musical, great at portraying emotion and she is great at all types if music. The SP and the LP are so different but she is equally fabulous in both.
That's so toxic. You really don't need to bash anyone just because their technique doesn't meet your standards
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2009
I'm almost breathless at all of these young ladies throwing quads all over the place now , as well as triple Axels! It's amazing and I can't wait to see a real 'quad and triple Axels' battle from the women at the next Olympics! 
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2017
That's so toxic. You really don't need to bash anyone just because their technique doesn't meet your standards
My standards?!? What about the ISU written standards that they should follow, but they don't?!?
What about all the skaters with a proper technique that never get credited with what they deserve and never win big competitions?
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
I'm hoping so... last season she didn't have backloading and her program choices were (IMO) lacklustre. She is capable of difficult choreography, but I would love to see her develop artistically in terms of expression and nuance. Editing is a huge issue for me in many Tutberidze programs, and now that she has the clout she doesn't need to pack her programs with transitions to get higher PCS, so she can experiment more and work on improving her overall skating quality.
- Joined
- May 28, 2019
Thread title: Ladies and the quad.
Alina doesn't have quads in her programme, and has stated several times that she doesn't plan on including a quad in her programme this season.
Still, folks manage to drag her into this discussion anyway
We've seen some pretty scary examples of EDS (Eteri Derangement Syndrome) so far; guess we can add ODAD (Obsessive Dragging of Alina into any Discussion) as another affliction of the same sort
Alina doesn't have quads in her programme, and has stated several times that she doesn't plan on including a quad in her programme this season.
Still, folks manage to drag her into this discussion anyway
We've seen some pretty scary examples of EDS (Eteri Derangement Syndrome) so far; guess we can add ODAD (Obsessive Dragging of Alina into any Discussion) as another affliction of the same sort
