Would a Folk Short Dance Be Possible?

[BillNeal]

I really enjoyed the folk original dances that we were presented at 2010 Vancouver Olympics including V/M Flamenco, D/W Indian, Kerr/Kerr American, D/S Can Can, and Coomes/Buckland Irish OD's. It allowed teams to showcase a particular culture to a wide audience, which was quite appropriate for the Olympics. Do you think there would be a way to incorporate a folk short dance?

One of the problems I see is finding a set pattern for this type of short dance. Would skaters be able to choose from a choice of maybe 3 pattern dances (eg. Waltz, Yankee Polka, Rhumba) that most fits the character of their folk dance? The problem with that is that an easier pattern may get chosen more often and judging may be a nightmare with different sets of keypoints. Could they have a longer partial step sequence with fitting requirements instead of a set pattern?

Would you like to see a folk short dance?

For Reference: 2010 Vancouver Original Dance Full Event (Youtube)

 

[WeakAnkles]

Oh I miss the OD, and that final OD in Vancouver was a Campstravaganza!!!!!!!!

The whole point of the pattern in the SD is that judges get a chance to evaluate each couple according to the exact same criteria using the exact same rhythms and steps. So offering a choice of three different patterns and rhythms would rather defeat the purpose of it.

Then again I am one of perhaps 17 people in the world who misses the compulsory pattern dances.

 

[GrandmaCC]

I am all for incorporating any kind of increase in dance content, whether it’s done by adding a seperate program, increasing value of step sequences, awarding a bonus for a skater who incorporates ice dance specific moves/requirements in their routine, whatever.

Folk dance, is this specific to culture?
Because I could see a billion complaints of cultural appropriation being made, or offence being taken.
People even have been taking issue with Schindler’s List being skated to by a German, so can you imagine if, say, a non-Jew did Hava Nagila? Or if a Jewish skater did that piece and so did a Christian and the Christian won?

It is a nice idea, but I would probably want to avert crisis by having that short dance genre be things like Musical Theatre/Broadway, Latin, contemporary, balletic, lyrical, jazz...

Skaters can maybe select music and submit it to a committee to see if it fits the category they’re going for (so, sending in “Mein Herr” for the Musical Theatre category), if it gets the “ok” it’s up to them to then go and make a program that is judged primarily on current ice dance protocols.

Maybe it could be a prelude to the SP and if the skater advances to the LP (based on the combined total of those two scores) it could count as a percentage of total points?

 

[GGFan]

I'm all for: a) a longer pattern in the short dance and b) going for a folk short dance.

I think just in the span of 8 years though people's antennae on cultural appropriation has gotten that much more sensitive. I think the Russian Aboriginal program would be even a bigger controversy now and there would be memes, etc

I think it's a high risk proposition. You will have some teams like D/W who do their research and do a wonderful job, but the failures will not only be bad but offensive. Having said that hip hop gave us V/M's Prince and the Shibs Frank Sinatra/Jay Z program, and I love both.

 

[WeakAnkles]

I'm all for: a) a longer pattern in the short dance and b) going for a folk short dance.

I think just in the span of 8 years though people's antennae on cultural appropriation has gotten that much more sensitive. I think the Russian Aboriginal program would be even a bigger controversy now and there would be memes, etc

I think it's a high risk proposition. You will have some teams like D/W who do their research and do a wonderful job, but the failures will not only be bad but offensive. Having said that hip hop gave us V/M's Prince and the Shibs Frank Sinatra/Jay Z program, and I love both.

It's a shame that Dominina and Shabalin's notorious caveman thing (one hesitates to call it a dance) overshadowed one of the finet Tango Romaticas I've ever seen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a4SDYprc_w

Looking quite chic in your backwards dress there Ms. D.

 

[QueenOfTheRoad]

Folks dance is incorporated since more than a century in ballet, ballet dancers at Vaganova studies these kind of dances intensively (with focus on Spanish, Russian, Italian dances i think) so why not in figure skating? However, the real folks dances have a wealth who goes beyond of waltzes and polka. they have different rhythms. For example in Romania only there is a rhythms in south and another in the west. Do not start me talking about the beauty of different dances from China, or about horas from Israel.

IMO it would be not cultural appropriation but cultural understanding. If you are not aware , when you are dancing to polka and tango, they were at the beginning/based on folks dances. For sure, there are some dances who have a heavy meaning for some nations and should be very well thought before using them but the information is out-there nowadays, ask!

As a massive lover of folks dances, i could only salute such an initiative. There is a wealth in folks music unmatched by the modern one and is such a pity to be forgotten. There is more than Irish dances, Black eyes and Hava Nagila to be discovered and used.

 

[BillNeal]

I'm all for: a) a longer pattern in the short dance and b) going for a folk short dance.

I think just in the span of 8 years though people's antennae on cultural appropriation has gotten that much more sensitive. I think the Russian Aboriginal program would be even a bigger controversy now and there would be memes, etc

I think it's a high risk proposition. You will have some teams like D/W who do their research and do a wonderful job, but the failures will not only be bad but offensive. Having said that hip hop gave us V/M's Prince and the Shibs Frank Sinatra/Jay Z program, and I love both.

This year we had a Japanese, Chinese, Turkish and Korean dance team on the Olympic roster. Ice dance (or even figure skating in Turkey for example) is not popular in their countries. One way to do it is to incorporate their culture into their skating, which is what Yura Min and Alexander Gamelin did in their free dance which got a great audience response (granted it’s a home crowd). Yes there may be a few teams that can risk misrepresenting a culture but that shouldn’t prevent them to strive to demonstrate appreciation for a culture. A lot of it I agree is doing the proper research but that goes with the other more recognized styles such as Latin and Paso Doble.

 

[GGFan]

I agree with both of you on folk dances. Lord knows that there's a lot of Africa flowing through a lot of music today. I'm just giving you the analytical point of view of someone cautious perhaps at the ISU level. I think like GrandmaCC ideas, there would have to be some clear guidelines because for the 1 or 2 choreographers who would be idiots about this.

 

[elbkup]

I for one would love this... my favorite EX this season is Maria Sotskova. ..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0A2HP0PxJjk

Anyway.. would love to see an ice dance to this..
https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL79AC8FF24E2064F8&v=pxIdHQctReY

 

[GGFan]

It's a shame that Dominina and Shabalin's notorious caveman thing (one hesitates to call it a dance) overshadowed one of the finet Tango Romaticas I've ever seen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a4SDYprc_w

Looking quite chic in your backwards dress there Ms. D.

I think it was quite the miracle that he was even skating at those Olympics given his injuries.

I'm being picky on the dress, but I wanted it to fit her just a bit better in the torso area :dev2:

 

[dorispulaski]

I enjoyed the folk dance Original Dances so much in 2007-08 and 2009-10! I would love to see them again.

A team can usually avoid complaints of cultural appropriation or other sorts of complaints by using folk dances from their own country.

I say usually because Belbin & Agosto did a good job of researching an Appalachian dance and took heat from various sectors for it, causing them to change their costumes radically a number of times, and the cuts of music as well. Each result was worse than the original conception.

Since what actually gets graded in the pattern dance part of an SD is a set of key points, they could assign a couple sets of steps with key points and the time signature and beats per minute, and let the teams construct a segment of the dance around them. That way a number of different folk dances could be portrayed with equivalent key points.

Or the Pattern Dance could be the Yankee Polka again, or the Killian for Juniors, and have a folk medley theme.

 

[BillNeal]

Also one of my favourite dances of the Reeds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n18KX1C0chU

 

[GGFan]

Just wanted to add that it is a great privilege when your culture is done right: It wasn't a dance but I was not only entertained but extremely moved by Elladj Balde's free skate at Nationals. He embodied the music and got the nuances right.

Indians are still talking about D/W's Bollywood which was an instant masterpiece.

 

[BillNeal]

I for one would love this... my favorite EX this season is Maria Sotskova. ..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0A2HP0PxJjk

Thanks!

That reminds me of Fedorova/Miroshkin's 2014-2015 FS (miss them): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdcP65RSUM0

And V/M's Dark Eyes OD (the first time I found out about them): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3yWgpdn3Es

 

[QueenOfTheRoad]

IMO nothing can reveal more about how a certain country/nationality/group of people ticks than hearing their music and watching their dances. The mentalities, their life believes, their soul is distilled through centuries in these music. I can hear in an Israel dance how an eye cry and how the other laugh and their power to survive. I can hear in a Russian song the melancholy as expressed by Esenin and in the other the happiness for life. I can feel in a Scottish line dance the desire to share the time with other people around you and how this makes everybody happy. And i could go on and on. Just because one or two would misunderstand and misuse the tradition of other folks is not an excuse to shun and be afraid of folks music (i think cca of 50% of classical music is inspired by it and don't start me on the roots of western pop music - we all know from which cultures it comes).

We want to live in a multicultural world and we should learn about the other non west cultures as well, we should learn to pay respect to it and don't take just the cliches like someone in the 1950 might have done. There is a difference between donning a yellow face and dancing an East-Asian dance respecting the choreography and the message of the respective music. The later it would enrich you, it would help to better understand a culture and in the case of my small country without figure skating to speak about, it would help to give people opportunity to come in contact with my culture.

 

[GGFan]

Thanks!

That reminds me of Fedorova/Miroshkin's 2014-2015 FS (miss them): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdcP65RSUM0

And V/M's Dark Eyes OD (the first time I found out about them): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3yWgpdn3Es

V/M were so ridiculous from the get go!! Her dress, style and leg line His confidence and feet! This program and Umbrellas: how do you even pull that off at 18 and 20??

Igor and Marina could do no wrong in those days.

 

[BillNeal]

[/B]

V/M were so ridiculous from the get go!! Her dress, style and leg line His confidence and feet! This program and Umbrellas: how do you even pull that off at 18 and 20??

Igor and Marina could do no wrong in those days.

Yes and to think that was almost a decade ago! I think that's one of the reasons why I was so emotional when they won their second OGM, it's because year after year they improve upon themselves and gives it 122% to stay at the top of the field.

 

[Feline Feeder]

I loved the folk dances! I see nothing wrong with skating to a dance of another culture, as long as you are not mocking the culture in some way.

2010 was a different world, however. Today, people complain about little girls dressed as Disney Princesses of a different ethnicity, even if they don't do any form of skin color change. Anyway, I doubt we'll ever see that again, which is a shame because it was my favorite and helped Davis and White break through to medal contention.

 

[BillNeal]

I loved the folk dances! I see nothing wrong with skating to a dance of another culture, as long as you are not mocking the culture in some way.

2010 was a different world, however. Today, people complain about little girls dressed as Disney Princesses of a different ethnicity, even if they don't do any form of skin color change. Anyway, I doubt we'll ever see that again, which is a shame because it was my favorite and helped Davis and White break through to medal contention.

Hopefully these people are in the minority and they may need a reality check. Being a Chinese Canadian myself (you wouldn’t know from my screen name) and visiting China last year after not having been there in a long time has made me realize how important it is for culture to be preserved and appreciated. I am Canadian but I also make sure I continue the traditions of my parents like celebrating Chinese New Year and bringing some Chinese desserts to my workplace to mark the occasion.

 

[cruzceleste]

Also one of my favourite dances of the Reeds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n18KX1C0chU

I have totally forgot about this one, thanks for bringing it back. How nervous I was that one of them was gonna let the fan fall.