Yuzuru Hanyu: 2016-17 Season

[teeannroo]

1. Did Yuzuru start the first quad battle? And in what event with who?
Skaters who practice together have tried to do quad battle for years.

2. Why is the axel jump so hard? Why can some do quads but not axel?
The Axel technique is considered the hardest because of the forward take off from one foot, it has an extra 1/2 rotation compared to other jump technique. It needs strength from the upper body as much as good timing. It depends on the skaters to say if the Axel is hardest or not. It is not right to say "some can do quads but not axel". It is correct to say "some male skaters have less issue with quads than they have with 3A." With Yuzuru the 3A is clearly his strength. But to some other skaters, they do not like it.

3. Why is the axel compulsory?
Because it's considered the hardest basic jump technique.

4. Why does the axel go so far compared to other jumps?
It depends on the skaters. Some skaters jump across the ice and some jump up and down the ice. Some ladies have bigger 2A than some men's 3A (look at Adelina's 2A). Hanyan's 3A might be the longest but not the highest. Voronov might have the highest 3A in the field but not very long.

5. Why is the axel put on such a high pedestal- it seems like the best jump or something seeing as I saw people saying you aren't a real senior men's skater unless you can do a triple axel.
Because all top men can do 3A. It's just some are much better at it than other.

6. What is a pure jump technique- how can a jump technique be dirty? And why is Yuzuru's pure?
Pure jump technique: no hammer toe, no hunched back or leaning foward too much in the take-off, no wrong edge in either Lutz or Flip, no pre-rotation over ISU's instruction video, tight air position, clean backward landing without hook, no under-rotation, straight back in the landing, great flow and great speed in the landing with a curve.

When Yuzuru was younger, he used to have the wrong edge in the Flip but he has improved it vastly by now. His Flip has the acceptable edge now with no pre-rotation. His lutz is pure and also no pre-rotation. All of Yuzuru's toe jumps have the least pre-rotation. His edge jumps are even better than his toe jumps. His landings when he does well always has straight back with a lot of speed and flow.

Several top male skaters have great toe jumps (with no pre-rotation as well) but much weaker edge jumps and especially weaker 3A than Yuzuru. Some other top male skaters have very much wrong take off in the Flip and Lutz (we call it LoopFlip and LoopLutz), weaker 3A and jerky landings which might lead to bad knee in the future. Some of them have a chronic issue with landings of their quads when they land, their whole body shift to the right side heavily, their right hip rolls and has to support the whole body weight, it might lead to horrible hip in the future.

So yes, compared to all of them, Yuzuru has the most overall balanced and consistent jump technique in 6 types of jumps. His layout in the SP is quite balanced with 5 toe jumps and 6 edge jumps.

Hello, these are really good questions, I’m not the best candidate to answer your questions but I will try to the best of my knowledge!
1. I think it all started organically at the 2015 ISU World championship gala.
2. The axel is the hardest jump in figure skating because of its takeoff and rotation. First of all, it is an edge jump. Second it requires and extra ½ revolution and you can’t pre-rotate because of its forward takeoff.
3. To see if your technique is good enough and to distinguish skaters (I think).
4. The technique is different from other jumps because you have to jump out (essentially throw yourself into the air) which is why it covers a lot of distance (ice), it is part of the reason why some skaters find it daunting.
5. Pure  textbook perfect technique in terms of takeoff (difficult entries with many variation). Rotation (just the right amount of highest and distance plus air position). Landing (light landing with perfect back outside edge), and true champions (Like Yuzuru) can still land the jumps even when the first two parts gone wrong!

I hope this answers some of your questions!

Thank you both! My knowledge of figure skating is so bad :sad4: I hope you don't mind all these questions haha I'm just trying to learn more

 

[mcq]

This is the earliest one I remember in competition gala. Its probably been done since the late 1990's/early 2000's in ice shows.

---

Russian split, and what looks to be a catch foot spiral

OT but can't you believe those who are in the podium with Yuzu at JW are all retired now? Time flies

 

[Rissa]

5. Why is the axel put on such a high pedestal- it seems like the best jump or something seeing as I saw people saying you aren't a real senior men's skater unless you can do a triple axel

Because it's the hardest of the six jumps... and possibly because the 3A is the line 99% of women aren't able to get to. Therefore, it's a Men's jump, litreally. And because an axel is a compulsory jump in the SP, a male skater can forget about the elite career if he can't do a 3A. It's impossible to make up the points difference using other jumps.

Also, it's got that extra half revolution, so it's an imaginary line between lower jumps. Like, 3 revolutions is for boys, more than 3 makes you a man.

 

[gladiolusc]

This is the earliest one I remember in competition gala. Its probably been done since the late 1990's/early 2000's in ice shows.

---

Russian split, and what looks to be a catch foot spiral

I get Keiji's comment about Yuzu's suddenly-high-tension personality XD https://youtu.be/9YzehrKaI24?t=3m47s

OT but can't you believe those who are in the podium with Yuzu at JW are all retired now? Time flies

That makes me sad thinking we only have so many seasons of Yuzu left I'm kind of always sad about early retirements, FS seems such a fleeting sport.

 

[Lillamyrull]

Yes it is a fleeting sport, that's why we are lucky to have youtube. We can watch his performance over and over and ......
Before youtube, you could maybe watch a favorite performance a handful of times if your television channel would show figure skating at all. (in may country that was next to nothing)
So yay for youtube

 

[mcq]

That makes me sad thinking we only have so many seasons of Yuzu left I'm kind of always sad about early retirements, FS seems such a fleeting sport.

It will be really different after PC because most top men who compete at the Sochi quad would be retired. Yuzuru is always at that awkward batch. People usually grouped him with Patrick and Javi but they are actually 4 yrs older than Yuzuru + they competed in Vancouver olympics and debut in senior earlier than him. Those who are actually his batch either have retired or their career do not really launch well. He's not that far older than Shoma and Boyang actually (3 yrs older) but these two only have their senior debut last year while Yuzuru was in senior since 2010. :think:

 

[Lillamyrull]

It will be really different after PC because most top men who compete at the Sochi quad would be retired. Yuzuru is always at that awkward batch. People usually grouped him with Patrick and Javi but they are actually 4 yrs older than Yuzuru + they competed in Vancouver olympics and debut in senior earlier than him. Those who are actually his batch either have retired or their career do not really launch well. He's not that far older than Shoma and Boyang actually (3 yrs older) but these two only have their senior debut last year while Yuzuru was in senior since 2010. :think:

Yuzuru would have debut when he was 16 (I think), that makes him remarkable for a man. Men/boys generally are 17/18 when they go senior, and women/girls are (15)16.

 

[shiroKJ]

Yuzuru would have debut when he was 16 (I think), that makes him remarkable for a man. Men/boys generally are 17/18 when they go senior, and women/girls are (15)16.

He was 15 when he turned senior.

 

[Lillamyrull]

He was 15 when he turned senior.

Ok, thank you. That's makes him as young as the youngest girls who are going to seniors. I think that is also why he get's grouped with Patrick and Javier, even if they are older. He nearly made Vancouver which was in 2010.

 

[mcq]

Yuzuru would have debut when he was 16 (I think), that makes him remarkable for a man. Men/boys generally are 17/18 when they go senior, and women/girls are (15)16.

He debuted when he was 15. Which is rare for men. And get a medal at 4CC too. Those who excel at such young age usually became legends (like yagudin or plushenko). But there are cases of late bloomers like Javi too. And you are right, majority of men debuted when they were 17/18. Boyang, Nathan, Shoma, etc did. It is more common to see men stretching their junior career to 18-19 rather than seeing a 15-year old competing in senior for men.

Ok, thank you. That's makes him as young as the youngest girls who are going to seniors. I think that is also why he get's grouped with Patrick and Javier, even if they are older. He nearly made Vancouver which was in 2010.

Patrick and Javi competed in senior since 2006-2007 season. I think he is grouped with them more to the fact that they are top contenders in the Sochi quad. :think:

 

[gladiolusc]

It will be really different after PC because most top men who compete at the Sochi quad would be retired. Yuzuru is always at that awkward batch. People usually grouped him with Patrick and Javi but they are actually 4 yrs older than Yuzuru + they competed in Vancouver olympics and debut in senior earlier than him. Those who are actually his batch either have retired or their career do not really launch well. He's not that far older than Shoma and Boyang actually (3 yrs older) but these two only have their senior debut last year while Yuzuru was in senior since 2010. :think:

I kind of hate the change of guard talk looping him in with the "old batch", he's kind of in between...mm D10 is his cohort I guess? And D10 was on Sochi podium. Yuzu's 4.5 older than Nathan Chen and in my mind I do batch Boyang/Shoma/Nathan together. I wonder what it would be like for Yuzu training in Cricket Club without Javi weird change of pace for me, the whole "Cricket Club brothers" thing has always been beautiful to see.

 

[mcq]

I kind of hate the change of guard talk looping him in with the "old batch", he's kind of in between...mm D10 is his cohort I guess? And D10 was on Sochi podium. Yuzu's 4.5 older than Nathan Chen and in my mind I do batch Boyang/Shoma/Nathan together. I wonder what it would be like for Yuzu training in Cricket Club without Javi weird change of pace for me, the whole "Cricket Club brothers" thing has always been beautiful to see.

D10, han yan, is more of his batch but d10 also joined vancouver, if I am not wrong. Brown and kovtun are his age but they only went senior on 2013/14 season, I think. It's weird because it is as if he barely has peers, as in someone who is the same age as him and starts senior career around the same time too (1~2 year around his start).

 

[shiroKJ]

He debuted when he was 15. Which is rare for men. And get a medal at 4CC too. Those who excel at such young age usually became legends (like yagudin or plushenko). But there are cases of late bloomers like Javi too. And you are right, majority of men debuted when they were 17/18. Boyang, Nathan, Shoma, etc did. It is more common to see men stretching their junior career to 18-19 rather than seeing a 15-year old competing in senior for men.

Most skaters move up after they they win the Jr. World title/land on the podium (and reach min. age). It just so happens that 17-18 is the average length of time it takes for the men to reach that milestone. Yuzuru has always been the anomaly, even back then.

 

[gladiolusc]

D10, han yan, is more of his batch but d10 also joined vancouver, if I am not wrong. Brown and kovtun are his age but they only went senior on 2013/14 season, I think. It's weird because it is as if he barely has peers, as in someone who is the same age as him and starts senior career around the same time too (1~2 year around his start).

That's exactly D10. He joined vancouver as a junior (I just looked it up) D10's quite interesting actually, I can't believe he's never made GPF given his strong performances at Worlds and Olympics. Now I understand the comment elsewhere about him being only D5 midseason.

Peerless Yuzu sounds lonely Anyway, I hate the old guard speak that puts Yuzu on defensive when he's clearly still on the up, up, up performance-wise. Sometimes the Japanese media is so sensationalist

Most skaters move up after they they win the Jr. World title/land on the podium (and reach min. age). It just so happens that 17-18 is the average length of time it takes for the men to reach that milestone. Yuzuru has always been the anomaly, even back then.

The sheer number of times he broke World Records, and the way he broke them last year was also eye-popping :shocked: and... different.

 

[mcq]

Most skaters move up after they they win the Jr. World title/land on the podium (and reach min. age). It just so happens that 17-18 is the average length of time it takes for the men to reach that milestone. Yuzuru has always been the anomaly, even back then.

Yeah. Though when the senior field in their country is pretty deep, I can see them stretching their junior career a bit. Nathan actually medals at his first junior world when he was 14/15 but stretch his junior days 2 more season. Looking at the field of Japanese men, it is still astonishing that he managed to have a pretty great senior debut season considering the depth of the senior field, domestically and internationally. He beat Abbott and Kozuka in his 4cc debut

That's exactly D10. He joined vancouver as a junior (I just looked it up) D10's quite interesting actually, I can't believe he's never made GPF given his strong performances at Worlds and Olympics. Now I understand the comment elsewhere about him being only D5 midseason.

Peerless Yuzu sounds lonely Anyway, I hate the old guard speak that puts Yuzu on defensive when he's clearly still on the up, up, up performance-wise. Sometimes the Japanese media is so sensationalist

It's normal, they always do this. It was rivalry with takahashi at first, and then with machida, and then now with shoma. If there is another up and comers, I bet everything they will put him up against yuzu too. It was like that with Mao as well. Personally I am not so bothered, because that means Yuzu is the standard, the pinnacle. If anything, I am more bothered on behalf of the younger ones who keep getting compared to him. Because it puts unnecessary pressure on them. Forget the media in Japan lol media in Korea already compared Jun hwan to him too. But well I think as his fan I took it as a compliment, it means he is the guy to beat

 

[Yatagarasu]

This talk made me remember the OG and this priceless commentary for the team event

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajaY90WZG_E

'Sick'!

 

[Rissa]

Peerless Yuzu sounds lonely Anyway, I hate the old guard speak that puts Yuzu on defensive when he's clearly still on the up, up, up performance-wise. Sometimes the Japanese media is so sensationalist

I think the "on the defensive" narrative is not because of Yuzuru's age or but because of his accomplishments. He's got highest medals and records so he's being chased. Others are trying to top him which sort of naturally puts him (and Javier now) in the defending position. I'm not seeing it as anythjng negative.

 

[shiroKJ]

Yeah. Though when the senior field in their country is pretty deep, I can see them stretching their junior career a bit. Nathan actually medals at his first junior world when he was 14/15 but stretch his junior days 2 more season. Looking at the field of Japanese men, it is still astonishing that he managed to have a pretty great senior debut season considering the depth of the senior field, domestically and internationally. He beat Abbott and Kozuka in his 4cc debut

Most Jr's who win a world medal at such a young age usually stay and try for the gold because its a possible goal for them.

 

[mcq]

This talk made me remember the OG and this priceless commentary for the team event

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajaY90WZG_E

'Sick'!

That's scott hamilton right? I kind of miss his commentary, I hope he recovers well soon :sad4:

 

[gladiolusc]

I think the "on the defensive" narrative is not because of Yuzuru's age or but because of his accomplishments. He's got highest medals and records so he's being chased. Others are trying to top him which sort of naturally puts him (and Javier now) in the defending position. I'm not seeing it as anythjng negative.

That's a better way of seeing it :agree: I think I just lapsed into that thinking because I was going into the posts from Autumn Classic/ Skate Canada period from this season.

This talk made me remember the OG and this priceless commentary for the team event

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajaY90WZG_E

'Sick'!

Speaking of OG, is it just me or does he break character to do the angelic-yuzu smile to the judges here in Team https://youtu.be/ajaY90WZG_E?t=2m46s and here in Singles https://youtu.be/LL6xSlZsSqQ?t=3m1s I only just noticed.