Yuzuru Hanyu: 2016-17 Season

[Marin]

I still can't get why JSF is considered as some kind of monster, they try best for their athletes as any other fed , they will never "dump" one for another, they may push one less famous and young but it doesn't mean they will give up other, JSF is one of the most influential federations after USFSA and RSFSA (also if I am not mistaken 8 out of main ISU sponsors are Japanese) and as many great athletes they will produce better for them, they will ensure better prestige + better financial income. (Yuzuru is insanely marketable and JSF gains a lot from it)
It is almost nonsense and madness that they are going to dump their best skater. Realistically evaluating situation Japan has much lesser chance to medal at worlds and Olympics in ladies at least pre 2018 while they can have 2 best men at wc and Olympic podium , for now their chances in men are most realistic, one is good but 2 are even better right?! so I find it a bit funny all these convos about "ditching and dumping " too childish I have to say.

 

[Plumededragon]

I respect Miss Abe, but whoever thinks that it would be good for Yuzuru to come back to Miss Abe, they're delusional and have no idea about coaching at all. Sorry but I have to say this, Yuzuru outgrew Miss Abe years ago.
People need to remember that at Sendai Yuzuru only had Miss Abe and no one else to coach him properly. And people need to remember that Sendai is not the skating capital of all Japan. If Yuzuru needed top facilities inside Japan to practice, it's not Sendai, it's either at Nagoya or Osaka. And Yuzuru didn't belong to either of these groups in the first place.
You think Mao could go that far without Nagoya team behind her? Do you know they have 2 ice rinks there for their top skaters and it wasn't even enough?
I laugh so hard at people who naively think that Yuzuru can just go back to Miss Abe and win everything. You guys have no idea how Yuzuru has been practicing at CC, how much effort they have put in him. Yuzuru has become the Yuzuru today with the help of many coaches, specialists and choreographers in Toronto. He acknowledges their help, he knows how much he has gotten from them. As his fans, you should be more grateful.
Come back to Miss Abe? such a joke.

Major +1 on this. Nanami has done a great work at bringing Yuzu up until 2012, but she has done everything she could and she knew that. She wanted Yuzu to grow because she knew all the potential he had and blessed him on his decision to go to Canada to be able to fully become the champion he is today. Yuzuru is in a great place, with many great coaches and choreographers that he trust and who support him. If he decides to continue after 2018, you can be sure he will stay there.

 

[Meoima]

Major +1 on this. Nanami has done a great work at bringing Yuzu up until 2012, but she has done everything she could and she knew that. She wanted Yuzu to grow because she knew all the potential he had and blessed him on his decision to go to Canada to be able to fully become the champion he is today. Yuzuru is in a great place, with many great coaches and choreographers that he trust and who support him. If he decides to continue after 2018, you can be sure he will stay there.

These people who keep ditching Orser and say "come back to Miss Abe" have no idea that behind a successful skater you need a whole team of jump coach, skating coach, gym trainer, technical specialist, spin specialist, choreographer, even harness specialist... each of them might not coach the skater personally but they should be there, always ready to consult the skater.
Nagoya and Osaka all have their own team and facilities, in fact all top skating schools have such systems. Mishin doesn't just have his wife to help him, he has a team of 10 up to 20 specialists working for him or else how can he handle the whole school? Eteri has many assistants beside her.
It is ignorant for some fans to demand that Yuzuru should go back to Sendai and work with Miss Abe. Who will be there for him to teach him about every details of the steps, levels and all? Sendai has NO such team, period. If Yuzuru wants a proper coaching team in Japan, he has to go to either Nagoya or Osaka, and these are too crowded already.
Toronto is the best place for him to practice right now. That is the truth.

 

[Biellmann]

I respect Miss Abe, but whoever thinks that it would be good for Yuzuru to come back to Miss Abe, they're delusional and have no idea about coaching at all. Sorry but I have to say this, Yuzuru outgrew Miss Abe years ago.
People need to remember that at Sendai Yuzuru only had Miss Abe and no one else to coach him properly. And people need to remember that Sendai is not the skating capital of all Japan. If Yuzuru needed top facilities inside Japan to practice, it's not Sendai, it's either at Nagoya or Osaka. And Yuzuru didn't belong to either of these groups in the first place.
You think Mao could go that far without Nagoya team behind her? Do you know they have 2 ice rinks there for their top skaters and it wasn't even enough because Nagoya is too packed with so many skaters now?
I laugh so hard at people who naively think that Yuzuru can just go back to Miss Abe and do better than this. You guys have no idea how Yuzuru has been practicing at CC, how much effort they have put in him. Yuzuru has become the Yuzuru today with the help of many coaches, specialists and choreographers in Toronto. He acknowledges their help, he knows how much he has gotten from them. As his fans, you should be more grateful for what they have done to help him.
Come back to Miss Abe? such a joke.

It is an option after he retired and when he decides to come back... She can give him a good choreography and someone with his experiences doesn't really need a coach anymore- theoretically he himself can become a coach. I'm talking about a time after 2018....

 

[kamotejojo]

Wasn't it Miss Abe who encouraged him to find a new coach in the first place? And why blame the coach for the wonky scoring/judging?

 

[Meoima]

It is an option after he retired and when he decides to come back... She can give him a good choreography and someone with his experiences doesn't really need a coach anymore- theoretically he himself can become a coach. I'm talking about a time after 2018....

From then on you always need a coaching team. The technical demands of today skating isn't like in Plushenko's time. Each entry before then jump needs adjustment, every steps need adjustment too, especially when you do many types of quad. It's not like Yuzuru will just do quad Toe and get away with it. The steps and the spins are getting harder and without good specialists beside it's easy to lose levels. Yuzuru needs a professional team if he wants to continue.

 

[DiamondDust]

Wasn't it Miss Abe who encouraged him to find a new coach in the first place? And why blame the coach for the wonky scoring/judging?

Yeah. I've read it somewhere that it was her who encouraged him.

 

[mcq]

These people who keep ditching Orser and say "come back to Miss Abe" have no idea that behind a successful skater you need a whole team of jump coach, skating coach, gym trainer, technical specialist, spin specialist, choreographer, even harness specialist... each of them might not coach the skater personally but they should be there, always ready to consult the skater.
Nagoya and Osaka all have their own team and facilities, in fact all top skating schools have such systems. Mishin doesn't just have his wife to help him, he has a team of 10 up to 20 specialists working for him or else how can he handle the whole school? Eteri has many assists beside her.
It is ignorant for some fans to demand that Yuzuru should go back to Sendai and work with Miss Abe. Who will be there for him to teach him about every details of the steps, levels and all? Sendai has NO such team, period. If Yuzuru wants a proper coaching team in Japan, he has to go to either Nagoya or Osaka, and these are too crowded already.
Toronto is the best place for him to practice right now. That is the truth.

+1 on this. Sorry but a good and bad coach can make or break you. Many skaters are highly talented and promising then all you have to do is teach them the wrong jumping technique and to ignore honing their skating skills and they are sooner or later will be done for. I am not saying Mrs. Abe is a bad coach, but Yuzuru's growth at TCC is highly evident to me and I doubt Sendai could provide such ideal training environment with all the specialist and all. There are things like politicking too, Orser's skater get a PCS boost, that is a fact. Tursynbaeva, Daleman, Chartrand, Cha Jun Hwan etc were given very generous PCS score after moving to him.

Also, even though I dislike JSF sometimes, no way in hell they will ditch a skater if they can still win things and bring money in, don't be delusional. They did not ditch Daisuke Takahashi even though he was 5th at japan Nats during the Olympic season and lost to Yuzuru the seaon before. They have yet to ditch Mao now, though she has bad results, because she brings in the $$$. This whole insecurities need to stop, he is after all, regardless of everything that will happen, is their first olympic champion in men's singles.

And though I often complain about score, PCS and GOE; at the end of the day Yuzuru himself still need to land his jumps and execute his steps and spins. I still have no doubt that if he is clean judges will give all the point to him. Let's halt the complaining until he is actually held down in scores when he skate clean, shall we?

 

[mikaboo]

Video from NHK sports news tonight (Yamato in the studio) with an interview with Brian.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x52rbm7_161120-絶対王者-y-h-4回新転時代に挑む_sport

Brief translation of what Yuzuru said:

The things I have to do keep on increasing and they might become more difficult to execute, but I think I can do them so I’ve never really felt that there is a limit.

I don’t think such things as “this is the limit” or “this is the most powerful program” exist in the world. I want to work hard on the qualities that only I can do, layouts that only I can do and on expressions that I can only do.

 

[alia jackson]

^^^ I can't help imagining hot Yuzu and hot Yamato at KnC :scard7:



.....edit to add hot Pooh too . The KnC will be melting

 

[Marin]

^^^ I can't help imagining hot Yuzu and hot Yamato at KnC :scard7:

too much for my poor heart :handw:

 

[Yatagarasu]

I still have no doubt that if he is clean judges will give all the point to him. Let's halt the complaining until he is actually held down in scores when he skate clean, shall we?

Why does Hanyu have to be clean, in order to get points that he has earned? Since when is going clean a requirement to be judged properly? Is he somehow held to higher standards?

If lucky strike doesn't have to be clean, then why the double standards? If Hanyu executes an element well, he should get the bonuses, if he does not, they can dock him for that element. The GOEs especially are not a matter of subjective interpretation. A hand down is a hand down. A difficult entry is a difficult entry. The judges know this. Or they should.

Not to mention, Yuzuru has already skated this season at SC, so yes, it is possible to compare his scores and GOEs and the GOEs some others seem to be getting like it's candy just because they managed to land a jump. This is a real problem, because he ends up getting less for higher difficulties, that are better executed and yet are higher risk. I for one said it's a SC issue but since it has now spilled over to CoC and candy is still being passed around for less... and this does matter because a skater gets a reputation within one season too and if you're on a roll, the atmosphere is carried over and it affects other people's scores too.

Finally, if he busts his posterior to finally get what he deserves but that ends up being of the same value as candy gotten for less, with far less effort and risk, then what?

 

[giulia95]

There are things like politicking too, Orser's skater get a PCS boost, that is a fact. Tursynbaeva, Daleman, Chartrand, Cha Jun Hwan etc were given very generous PCS score after moving to him.

it seems you forgot Javi

so what makes the difference between Yuzu and Javi since they shares the same team : is Spanish federation so powerful?

 

[giulia95]

"He's the old one". He's the ONLY one. Who do they have? Uno? I think they are not blind and stupid, they should know that Uno can never replace Yuzuru and his success. And they have Sota but right now it's hard to say how his future is going to be.

Listen to these guys, at 4:09 :agree: they have a point :yes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf1tul6kEd8&t=250s

I strongly hope you're right and I 'm wrong, but next Olys will be in less than 15 months then Yuzu’s careere will be ( probably) over, he’s the old one because he has a very little time left. Once he retires JSF will make $$$$ with ice shows while Shoma will be the ONLY very big male star competing for Japan.

 

[mcq]

Why does Hanyu have to be clean, in order to get points that he has earned? Since when is going clean a requirement to be judged properly? Is he somehow held to higher standards?

If lucky strike doesn't have to be clean, then why the double standards? If Hanyu executes an element well, he should get the bonuses, if he does not, they can dock him for that element. The GOEs especially are not a matter of subjective interpretation. A hand down is a hand down. A difficult entry is a difficult entry. The judges know this. Or they should.

Not to mention, Yuzuru has already skated this season at SC, so yes, it is possible to compare his scores and GOEs and the GOEs some others seem to be getting like it's candy just because they managed to land a jump. This is a real problem, because he ends up getting less for higher difficulties, that are better executed and yet are higher risk. I for one said it's a SC issue but since it has now spilled over to CoC and candy is still being passed around for less... and this does matter because a skater gets a reputation within one season too and if you're on a roll, the atmosphere is carried over and if affects other people's scores too.

And where are those 2 events again? Canada isn't it? Yuzuru bombed his SP at both AC and SC, yet the judges still give him 44-45 PCS. (And the SP at SC is awful, he basically botched 2 jumps and only do 3 triples so 44 is actually pretty generous). His GOE and PCS is fine at AC, the FS was not good and the quality of the elements are not there. He is lowballed at SC in the FS but the exact same thing happened last year, so I don't get the freaking out just because of 1 event. Patrick doesn't have to be clean but 3 quads and 2 3A and he landed all but 1 fall at 4S and received 196 is an ok score. Yuzuru received 194 at GPF with 2 quads and 2 3A and a fall on 3lz. If there is a skater who is scored generously it is Shoma and Javier. Both are scored generously at CoR but this is just one event. Javi only scored 188 at TDF and get normal PCS (92, the one Yuzuru should have gotten had the event was not in Canada, both had 1 pop and 1 fall). Had Yuzuru were given 4 pts extra in PCS he would score 187 in SC with technically just 2 quads, 2 3A, 1 pop and a downgraded jump.

So yes, I would halt complaining about his scores for now until he skate well at a more neutral place or at his home and is low-balled.

P.S : With this, I hope he won't go to SC again, he went there 3 times and was never scored generously. Choose a Europe or Asia event next time. Even SA probably would have been kinder.

it seems you forgot Javi

so what makes the difference between Yuzu and Javi since they shares the same team : is Spanish federation so powerful?

Yuzuru, Yuna and Javier all get a PCS boost under Orser. But they all have the reputation as Oly and World Champion accompanying their high PCS reputation. Those skaters I mentioned beforehand, do not. Yuzuru still get the highest PCS in both FS and SP at this moment (98.56 and 49.14), from his record breaking scores. So, I don't know why you assume anything about Spanish Federation.

 

[Marin]

I strongly hope you're right and I 'm wrong, but next Olys will be in less than 15 months then Yuzu’s careere will be ( probably) over, he’s the old one because he has a very little time left. Once he retires JSF will make $$$$ with ice shows while Shoma will be the ONLY very big male star competing for Japan.

actually you are wrong, Yuzuru and others have to share money with JSF until they are still competing, when he is retired JSF will get zero from him.All income is his.

 

[lappo]

Finally, if he busts his posterior to finally get what he deserves but that ends up being of the same value as candy gotten for less, with far less effort and risk, then what?

Because, unlike ISU thinks of skating fans, many skating fans can clearly distinguish between greatness and candies... Yuzuru is already hailed as a legendary skater, just like Yuna, the other still have to reach this. And like Yuna and few other greats, Yuzuru not only has incredible capacities but also an inner star quality/ charisma (don't know how to explain it properly) that glues people watching him. Just look at his exhibition, he does almost no jumps but you really can see his feelings shining all over.

 

[giulia95]

actually you are wrong, Yuzuru and others have to share money with JSF until they are still competing, when he is retired JSF will get zero from him.All income is his.

thanks for the information! i'm really relieved to hear that !!!

 

[SuzyQ]

From then on you always need a coaching team. The technical demands of today skating isn't like in Plushenko's time. Each entry before then jump needs adjustment, every steps need adjustment too, especially when you do many types of quad. It's not like Yuzuru will just do quad Toe and get away with it. The steps and the spins are getting harder and without good specialists beside it's easy to lose levels. Yuzuru needs a professional team if he wants to continue.

This is true. I'm quite sure the reason Mie Hamada has achieved good results recently is that she has built up her coaching team including Yamato Tamura, Cathy Ｒead, etc. And, in Japan as well, it is a trend today to form a coaching team with specialists. It may be getting outdated that a charisma coach looks after promising skaters by himself or herself. (There are even voices that Mao should have taken this way earlier.) IMO, it was very clever that Yuzuru chose CC, at the best timing

 

[giulia95]

Wasn't it Miss Abe who encouraged him to find a new coach in the first place? A

Please , can you share your source ?

As far as I know Nanami didn’t give any interview after Yuzu moved. This is her last message
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEv-bJ96nis
she told Yuzu something like just look towards your own goal, and let’s walk on, one step by one step ( I remember the translation by memory , because she’s my silent hero).