Yuzuru Hanyu: 2017-2018

[yude]

Michelle kwan has won the Choice Female Athelete. Actually David Beckham once won the award too. So they do award foreigners. And considering Twilight cast won over like 10 times for the Teen Choice Award Surf boards, the awards are given out based on popularity and fandom power

Thank you for your information

 

[Atlantis]

I think Seimei and Chopin aren't that great.

My qualm with him is the repeating, be it Notte Stellata, or Chopin, or Parisienne Walkways, or Seimei. It gets stale. How are you supposed to grow if you repeat? He bettered himself as a skater, but not always as an artist. I also don't think the choreography has really matched the depth of R&J1, although both LGC and H&L are done well in terms of adding depth. He looked at ease in LGC because of how it played on his personality. Moreover, I think Chopin and Notte Stellata have the same "base" of showing maturity, and then Notte Stellata and Hope and Legacy share introspective qualities, and Seimei shares the intensity he brings in quite a few performances. LGC could be a build on Parisienne Walkways, but in a good way, because it showcased the growth.

I hope he overhauls it in the sense that he stops repeating for sure, but along with that either 1) explores some new side of himself, or 2) has more complex pieces choreographed (R&J1, or to a lesser extent H&L and LGC).

I see your point, but to me persenally it seems that his repeated programs just kept magically improve with each performance. Like PW was just getting better and better and by Soch it was perfect. When I look at the performance that got him his first world record it seems almost surreal to me because that program was just so far from being used to its full potential at that time and yet a world record? And the same thing goes for Chopin and Seimei. I honestly think that his olympic performances are the best ones to date. Especially Seimei seems miles better artistically and it became my favorite performance of this program despite visible mistakes. Also Lambiel, when he was asked what he thinks about Yuzu repeating his programs, said he was amazed because Hanyu started interpreting music like never before and that his programs became more mature and interesting. He also said that it was then he started thinking that repeating can really show the growth of a figure skater. I think it's definitely true for Yuzu because it seems to me that he is quite slow in delivering a program with its full artistic potential and that LGC and H&L would 100% no doubts be better if he re-used them. Even though I love H&L WC 2017 with all my heart (and this is the performance that brought me into world of FS) now I feel like there is definitely potential to make it better, it wasn't the final form.

But maybe I have different feelings because I wasn't forced to wait years for new programs as I've been watching FS for only a year. Or maybe you feel it all gets stale because you don't like these programs that much to begin with? I can't imagine looking at a program I find mediocre for three seasons, sounds awful. If I may ask, why don't you like them?

But anyway, my point was just that it takes time for him to deliver a perfect artistic performance and that Seimei would never be perfected (according to me and Lambiel at the very least ) if he hadn't repeated it. PW too. (But Chopin probably shouldn't have been repeated for a third time even if I find olympic performence still slightly better than everything that was before). But even if he repeats programs I appreciate that at least they are all different and show different sides of his talent because sometimes it feels that skaters choose very similar style and music and that's what certainly gets stale to me. But I also hope he's going to explore something completely new in the upcoming season.

 

[Interspectator]

https://twitter.com/BluecosmosH/status/998399474962595841 Information about Fantasy on Ice broadcast dates.

【BS朝日】
■幕張公演
5月28日（月）21:00～22:54
収録回：幕張公演2日目

■神戸公演
6月17日（日）25:00～28:30
収録回：神戸公演2日目

【CSテレ朝チャンネル2】
■金沢公演
6月3日（日）17:00～21:00（最終日）

BS Asahi
Makuhari 5.28th 9pm
Kobe 6.17th 1am (this may be the 18th technically)

CS Asa Channel 2
Kanazawa 6.3 5pm

 

[Atlantis]

I adore Requiem and Notte Stellata... maybe Requiem by a hairsbreath.

And for all the criticism he got for repeating Chopin and Seimei last season (I went back and read it and had to admit I giggled a lot in hindsight), you have to admit it showed an almost spooky futuristic prescience, as if someone could foretell he would need something he knew by heart come the Olympics... like I said, spooky.

Yeah, exactly. He knows them so well that they almost guide him. And TAT keeps saying that Seimei is the music that gives him strength. There was really no better choice for FS, taking into account everything surrounding his victory.

 

[yude]

https://twitter.com/BluecosmosH/status/998399474962595841 Information about Fantasy on Ice broadcast dates.

BS Asahi
Makuhari 5.28th 9pm
Kobe 6.17th 1am (this may be the 18th technically)

CS Asa Channel 2
Kanazawa 6.3 5pm

They will broadcast the second shows for Makuhari and Kobe, I wanted them to air the last shows to be honest, but they need the time for editing so maybe it can't be helped (but CS will broadcast the last show of Kanazawa right after the real show is ended lol).

 

[Imov]

Yuzu getting the teens choice award would be interesting. It would be great if he can win.
But something tells me given that he succeeds this nomination, if performing ice skating is not involved he might be half excited about it.
Yuzu going ninja most of the time makes me feel that he wants to be as private as possible.

 

[Ophelia]

And the Olympics Seimei, when it was so brilliant but at the same time so uncertain if his injury would let him hold out... the breathtaking emotion just grabbed me (and this was after the fact; I have no IDEA how you folk, who watched it live, even breathed for that four and a half minutes)

I watched Olys live and felt like I was about to barf, so I actually looked away for parts of the program because my heart was in my throat.

Thus may be the last time I get so hung up over a skater. My nerves cant handle it.

 

[TallyT]

I watched Olys live and felt like I was about to barf, so I actually looked away for parts of the program because my heart was in my throat.

Thus may be the last time I get so hung up over a skater. My nerves cant handle it.

I''m not in the least surprised. Unfortunately, it's too late for all of us who are going to be watching for the first quad axel with our hearts in our throats....

 

[squall1111]

Yuzu getting the teens choice award would be interesting. It would be great if he can win.
But something tells me given that he succeeds this nomination, if performing ice skating is not involved he might be half excited about it.
Yuzu going ninja most of the time makes me feel that he wants to be as private as possible.

I don't think he will go to US to receive the award even if he wins [emoji38]. But then again someone might tell him it is a once in a life time experience. Looking at the number of nominations, he did get the most amount of nominations by sheer fandom number.

 

[kiches]

Regarding Yuzu and artistry, I'm sure I said some of this when Yuzu first announced he was doing Ballade no. 1 and Seimei again for the Olympic season, so some of this may be a repeat but as the Olympic season has ended and others also repeated programs I probably have some new things to add. I'm going to have to disagree with Chopinskate, on a few things, namely that Yuzu repeating programs gets stale as I don't necessarily think more variety of programs is required to improve artistry.

One of the things I can appreciate about Yuzu when he repeated programs is that I've felt each iteration was different beyond the technical aspects. It's hard for me to compare Seimei as he didn't really get a chance to skate it the way he meant to this season, but each version of of Ballade gave a different atmosphere for me. I saw both Autumn Classic and Pyeongchang SP live and I loved and found each skate different and exciting. Yuzu's interpretation each time is a little different and it kept the program fresh despite my seeing it so many times (I saw Boston live too and enjoy the passion behind it, but it's a bit painful to revisit). I think it's one of the things I value from Yuzu as a skater, he's very in the moment so no two performances are the same even when he skates clean. I had a teacher once that said he always enjoyed seeing one of his favorite bands live in concert because, even if they're singing the same songs, there was always something new he discovered when he would see them live again. That's not to say that fans don't enjoy new material (I'm looking forward to new programs of course :luv17. In contrast, Kaetyln Osmond repeated her SP last season and I don't think she changed anything in it as far as I can tell. For me that was one example where repeating a program didn't necessarily show artistic growth, even though it's a great program for her and she skated it wonderfully. Although for both Yuzu and Kaetyln I think their choices were more for practical reasons during the Olympic season than anything. We know that Yuzu originally wanted to keep Let's Go Crazy but was convinced otherwise for the Olympics.

In terms of Yuzu's other programs, I think R&J1 is a more overt program. It's easier to interpret and easier for the audience to connect with due to the pre-existing story, the music, and outward performance style required of it. In contrast, I think Seimei and H&L are very different programs that don't rely as heavily on drama to convey a message. Both are more nuanced, with H&L maybe being too abstract for some to appreciate as evidenced by mixed fan reactions to it. If I were to make an analogy it would be like comparing it to acting you see in a stage play and the acting you see in a movie. The acting in plays tends to be more over the top and include more exaggerated facial features since it's done live and to a large room, whereas the acting in films can be more nuanced, less obvious, and more believable. I enjoy both styles although I gravitate more to subtlety when it comes to figure skating as I find skaters tend to mug. I should also say I look for different things when I watch competitive skating vs exhibition skating. For competitions I like the artistry as much as anyone else, but I also love the excitement and the unique sense of athleticism and skill that comes with competitions. For exhibitions it's more for entertainment so I expect expression to be at the forefront.

Back to the original question though, I first saw Yuzu on TV during the Sochi Team Event and loved Parisienne Walkways right away so I was excited to see it again during the individual event, where it was skated even better! I'm not sure what my favorite performance is, it's three way tie right now between H&L in Helsinki, and Pyeongchang SP or FS. For exhibitions it's between Requiem in Boston and Notte Stellata at the Olympics.

 

[Danny T]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tyfbMt80C0&feature=youtu.be

Thanks for the link; I haven't seen the jump-less version of her R&J before. I might see what you're saying about a more mature Juliet there - I feel Sasha's version is more focused on the tragedy than the love, and I can see Juliet being retrospective on how the events played out in the story. Juliet certainly uses her brain more than Romeo for sure, so she should be the character to reflects on the tragic nature of the play. Sorry I missed Sasha's version; admittedly, the first time I saw it was at Torino, which was ... not great. The Marshall version was much better. That said, the part that I still don't see adults good at portraying is the innocent but passionate love - Yuzuru with his flailing arms and headbanging and sheer speed then is my perfect Romeo, and Gubanova's my softer, but no less passionate Juliet. It's just my personal reading of the text and the performances.

-----sorry for the thread derail-----

Back on topic, let's say I also side-eye Hanyu for being on seniors' circuit 8 whole years and having 5 short programmes Still, as much as I'm happy to never hear Ballade No. 1 on competitive ice again, I don't think Yuzu's repeated programmes are stale. They don't expand his range, but each performance is different. IMO, Yuzuru is an emotional skater; his programmes are different depending on his mental state of the day. That's why Nice's R&J and Boston's Requiem are his most phenomenal performances for me. In Boston he thought Requiem would be the last time he ever skated, which made it almost like the requiem of his career, so it's no wonder the feelings of helplessness and nostalgia were out in full force. Every version of his H&L has a different feel (technical issues aside), and to a lesser extent, every version of Chopin too. So there's always something I enjoy in Yuzuru's programme, repeated or not. Personally I don't expect Nice's R&J everytime (and gods forbid Boston), I just see it as something rare and to be treasured. Yuzuru's still a competitor after all.

 

[chopinskate]

These are some nice thoughts. Thanks for typing them.

I see your point, but to me persenally it seems that his repeated programs just kept magically improve with each performance.

If I may ask, why don't you like them?

A repeated program is supposed to improve, even when it is performed during a season. So it was never going to be surprising that he was able to perform the same programs better across multiple seasons. It doesn't show artistic growth to me, it shows that he was able to be more at ease the next time he performed the programs.

For this question, in general, I don't think his quest for perfection in his programs is wise, when the programs themselves aren't too perfect in a sense. They likely won't be until the focus on quads is removed. I just don't think that his version of Chopin, for instance, expresses all the depth it could in all parts of the choreography. It certainly isn't, to me, as good as it could be in the step sequence, for instance.

Think of it this way -- he's doing the 4Lo, and might bring back the 4Lz. If he does Chopin again, there's probably not a very good chance that he will be adding them in a place in the program that would highlight them musically/in terms of interpretation, and would instead place them at the beginning of the program, so he could knock them out to focus on the rest of the program. So, the rest of the program will now have to be built in a way that accommodates the beginning jumping pass. As a result, if he repeats a program (and this DID happen in his three iterations of Chopin), it will be constructed in way that accrues points -- and it IS a sport, yes, sure -- but not in some artistic way. It's the same for his Step Sequence, BTW. It's a level 4, but not some masterpiece IMO.

It's not a criticism of Yuzuru. It's a criticism of CoP. But I'd like the skaters (and Yuzuru who has repeated his programs a lot) to realize this, and therefore simply try to grow as artists and add more to their range, than try to perfect what might never be perfected.

I don't necessarily think more variety of programs is required to improve artistry.

You don't exclusively need them. Yuzuru (and anyone else) can grow as an artist without new programs. Chronological growth itself will be a part of this, as you would gain more life experience with it. However, how are you supposed to achieve true growth if you don't explore? The Chopin program, for instance, was first choreographed when he was 19. Had he left no reservoir of art unplumbed that he repeated this program for two more seasons? A new program in itself would have been a new life experience -- something he could have learned to perform really well over the new seasons. With Chopin, sure, maybe he did mature as a person and made the program more mature as he did, but it was never a two-way street after the first season.

This isn't to say people should NEVER repeat programs, however.

One of the things I can appreciate about Yuzu when he repeated programs is that I've felt each iteration was different beyond the technical aspects. It's hard for me to compare Seimei as he didn't really get a chance to skate it the way he meant to this season, but each version of of Ballade gave a different atmosphere for me. I saw both Autumn Classic and Pyeongchang SP live and I loved and found each skate different and exciting. Yuzu's interpretation each time is a little different and it kept the program fresh despite my seeing it so many times (I saw Boston live too and enjoy the passion behind it, but it's a bit painful to revisit).

In terms of Yuzu's other programs, I think R&J1 is a more overt program. It's easier to interpret and easier for the audience to connect with due to the pre-existing story, the music, and outward performance style required of it. In contrast, I think Seimei and H&L are very different programs that don't rely as heavily on drama to convey a message.

He performs it well, it's not like he isn't a competitor. It was just never an artistic statement big enough to be repeated those many times.

I don't agree with this at all. Faux dramatic programs are something I believe the audience to universally hate. The best thing about Yuzuru's R&J1 is that it takes time to build AND hold up a character arc -- that's what I mean when I say it is complex. Seimei, on the other hand, is quite shallow in comparison -- it's an attempt to build a character again, but it has flaws there because the build of the character just stays on a plateau. Compare it with R&J1. On the other hand, H&L is now something different -- there ISN'T necessarily a character there, just introspective movement, which the audience can absolutely connect to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tyfbMt80C0&feature=youtu.be

Thanks for the link; I haven't seen the jump-less version of her R&J before.

-----sorry for the thread derail-----

It IS thread derailing, but IMO it's important to compare and contrast in terms of artistry. I've already pointed out Yuzuru's R&J1. But here's another excellent program from Sasha Cohen. Look at her flying entry into her sit spin timed right to the music, and the way her sit spin itself highlights the music AND the character she's trying to portray. (And while Turin was a mess, please note that the complete version and her performance there are things I'd put far, FAR ahead of what any lady is capable of delivering nowadays -- including Gubanova's version, which shows her qualities well enough and is a less terrible program than most of what's around today with its attempt at character, but is ultimately still just a bunch of movement slapped together). Here's another, this time from Yuna Kim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh-850kqJoE. I won't put in any 6.0 programs in because they don't really merit discussion with regards to CoP.

Point is, while Yuzuru will be able to perfect his performance of a program, the programs themselves are never going to be perfect. And this is why I'd like him to stop repeating, because while fans can emotionally connect with his programs and performances, the choreography itself isn't anything magnificent to be wasting his time over. They could've spent time creating something special instead of those repeats.

 

[Henni147]

Reading this comment:

I think Seimei and Chopin aren't that great.

Looking at the username: chopinskate

Well, that post was truely unexpected


I want to be honest. If Yuzu hadn't repeated PW, Chopin and Notte Stellata... it would have been a real loss to the figure skating world

PW at Sochi, Chopin at ACI and OWG, Notte Stellata at COR and OWG. Five masterpieces I watch, rewatch and watch again and never get tired of them. Why? To me these programmes embody my image of 'ideal skating'. Technically, artistically and in terms of quality and magic.
There have been decent versions of Chopin and Notte Stellata before the 17/18 season, but imo they all don't match the programmes listed above. The layout of Chopin 3.0 fit the music much better than 2.0, especially the rippon-4T+3T at the very end of the programme deserved 100% the label "highlight distribution".

 

[chopinskate]

It's a Mao reference.

 

[Interspectator]

Reading this comment:

Looking at the username: chopinskate

Well, that post was truely unexpected


I want to be honest. If Yuzu hadn't repeated PW, Chopin and Notte Stellata... it would have been a real loss to the figure skating world

PW at Sochi, Chopin at ACI and OWG, Notte Stellata at COR and OWG. Five masterpieces I watch, rewatch and watch again and never get tired of them. Why? To me these programmes embody my image of 'ideal skating'. Technically, artistically and in terms of quality and magic.
There have been decent versions of Chopin and Notte Stellata before the 17/18 season, but imo they all don't match the programmes listed above. The layout of Chopin 3.0 fit the music much better than 2.0, especially the rippon-4T+3T at the very end of the programme deserved 100% the label "highlight distribution".

I agree. those programs are ones I watch over and over. As well as his numerous EX programs that are more free form --And also I see the reasoning behind those want Yuzu to strike out in a different direction.
Yuzu has many things to consider when deciding on which program to do each year, artistic growth being just one of many factors that all must balance well in order to create a program that can win. --Which for Yuzu is important as long as he is competing.

I really wanted new programs for the Olympic season, and was honestly disappointed when he went back to the Chopin and Seimei. However, it was 100% the right choice as time and history now shows. We can all hope and have strong opinions about Yuzu's programs and what we want his artistic aim to be in the future, but in the end, he and his team decide what will be the best balance and we just need to hang on for the ride. It's all a fan can do, really. --And discuss it in detail in a forum.

 

[Atlantis]

A repeated program is supposed to improve, even when it is performed during a season. So it was never going to be surprising that he was able to perform the same programs better across multiple seasons. It doesn't show artistic growth to me, it shows that he was able to be more at ease the next time he performed the programs.

Well, yes, but I guess it's a matter of what we look for in the program individually and what we call artistic growth. To me, I guess, smoother performance where you feel like every tiniest detail is there for a reason is a "growth", and even if it seems only like growth in this specific program, he learns from it in the bigger picture anyway. I mean it just doesn't feel like a stale water (and as some pointed out he performs according to his own state, and so is able to bring out something new regardless) And I completely agree with Henni147, some performances would be a huge loss if he never repeated some programs.

For this question, in general, I don't think his quest for perfection in his programs is wise, when the programs themselves aren't too perfect in a sense. They likely won't be until the focus on quads is removed. I just don't think that his version of Chopin, for instance, expresses all the depth it could in all parts of the choreography. It certainly isn't, to me, as good as it could be in the step sequence, for instance.

But isn't it always better to have one-two stellar performances of a program than not to have them at all? For example, LGC is not my favorite program but I would be forever sad that a perfect skate didn't happen. Some programs just deserve justice, so to say. They are good and they deserve to have a perfect skate. But I understand that if you don't feel the programs deserve repeating when you don't think they are that great. And that seems also like a matter of personal taste, I think I saw many people regarding Chopin and Seimei as masterpieces, and in all honesty I would say Seimei is going down in history like programs like Winter.

It's not a criticism of Yuzuru. It's a criticism of CoP. But I'd like the skaters (and Yuzuru who has repeated his programs a lot) to realize this, and therefore simply try to grow as artists and add more to their range, than try to perfect what might never be perfected.

It's interesting because I personally think programs nowdays are generally more interesting than they used to be (apart from a few masterpieces ofc). I see that everything is constricted in a way to give you more points and it isn't ideal for artistic growth, but even then it sure looks like it doesn't matter that much if a program is made by a talented choreographer and is skated by a talented skater. But that's just my honest first impression because I wasn't into figure skating for long.

 

[Ophelia]

I'm personally very pleased Hanyu departed those 2 specific programs for the Olympics, especially Seimei. Seimei is iconic and will be a Hanyu trade mark, and deserves to be an Olympics program.

 

[Danibellerika]

I watched Olys live and felt like I was about to barf, so I actually looked away for parts of the program because my heart was in my throat.

Thus may be the last time I get so hung up over a skater. My nerves cant handle it.

I said that for Sasha/Plushy (though more so Sasha). I wasn't expecting Yuzu to be my "new Sasha" but here we are . But at least it took a while!

I'm personally very pleased Hanyu departed those 2 specific programs for the Olympics, especially Seimei. Seimei is iconic and will be a Hanyu trade mark, and deserves to be an Olympics program.

I initially wasn't happy about all the repeats but as fate would have it that I'm relieved he went that route. Seimei always felt like it had unfinished business. Chopin less so, but having see him do both live at ACI and the Olympics it didn't feel at all stale to me.

 

[Henni147]

But isn't it always better to have one-two stellar performances of a program than not to have them at all? For example, LGC is not my favorite program but I would be forever sad that a perfect skate didn't happen. Some programs just deserve justice, so to say.

I couldn't have said it any better. LGC could be a firework, if Yuzu nailed a clean skate

You can argue about the costume (I like it, because purple is 100% Prince's color, but I know that some people would like to burn it.)
However especially the back counter-3A-kick into side lunge and the following step sequence are my all time favorites. Even the judges couldn't withstand to give him max. LV and GOE (3.90+2.10) in 4 of 7 competitions
The only occasion where he missed LV4 was at 4CC. Average GOE during the season: 1.92

Errors can really ruin this program, since it's a pure party from start to finish. No negativity allowed. But I can imagine, if Yuzu did a clean version, it would have the potential for a perfect score.

 

[xeyra]

I think GPF 2016 is as close to a perfect version of LGC as we can get. The 4Lo mistake had him laughing so the rest of the program had the proper joyfulness and freedom in the step sequence because the error didn't cloud the rest of the performance. It was also the time he began to interact with the audience.

His step sequence at Worlds was also great but I honestly think he was more frustrated there so it had a more bitter-sweet feeling than the one at GPF.

Edit; corrected because I wrote LGC instead of GPF in the last sentence.