2022 U.S. Nationals: Men's Short Program

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I wish I could see the world through the eyes of judge #7, perfection everywhere.

So much perfection! https://c.tenor.com/LE09m0qFBBIAAAAC/ten-ten-across-the-board.gif

(Well after the top 4 then there's a steeeep drop off lol). This also might be the first figure skating segment where I've seen the top 4 skaters get at least one 10.00, unless someone has another example?

I'm also shocked that this judge gave Malinin higher PE score than Chen (and gave Malinin 9.25 for transitions when he got 7.25/7.50's from other judges), but whatevs I guess that's the power of the quad god.

 

[Greengemmonster]

Finally got around to watching Nathan! Was too busy having kittens about Vincent.

Nathan is so good!!!! So very very very good!!!! But that's just stating the obvious

Ilia has great jumps and lovely spins. I have no idea why but I expected him to spin badly (no rational reason) so it was really surprising to see how flexible he is!!!

 

[moonvine]

I just watched men's event which I rarely do, I enjoyed it. I don't know much about US Man - who is considered strong or weak etc. But I wanted to say one thing. Paniot was robbed. That's all, thank you.

You’ll love his FS!

 

[moonvine]

A lot of things go into transitions, including the quality of a transition.

For example, this is a great quality exit transition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocUeIvl9uWc#t=57s
And this is a mediocre quality exit transition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocUeIvl9uWc#t=1m25s

Honestly though given how Chen lands his jumps, it's not THAT hard for him to throw in a spread eagle or a double three for the heck of it. Like that 4F, he could have added anything to the end of it. I feel like he's just trolling people who emphasize jump exit transitions, even though they have little value in the current system and the key transitions are entry. Far too many skaters "cover up" bad landings with hasty/poorly executed transitions, which are seemingly added as an afterthought just to rack up more points, so I'm actually glad they changed the rules.

I swear, if I had Nathan's ability, after I landed my quads, I would literally grab my free foot, raise it up like a spiral, then maintaining the RBO edge do a duo of RBO-RFI-RBO brackets, into a falling leaf, and flash a + 5 with my hands to the audience/judges, just to shut people up.

I’d dribble a basketball throughout the entire program while doing all the same choreography.

 

[bekalc]

I thin

It’s possible. And looking at BOW, Jason has 2 Senior GP medals, made GP final, medaled in every Senior competition he entered. Ilia won both GP events he was in and came in third at Warsaw, I think it was. There are so many junior skaters who won Junior Worlds medals or even the gold and Junior GPS, Junior GP final and never successfully transitioned to Seniors. Fortunately USFS isn’t out of their minds and I don’t think is going to test the theory of whether Ilia can successfully transition to the Senior level by sending him to the Olympics.

Man this is almost as bad as people wanting to send a Gracie to the Olympics.

I think they would be foolish not to send Ilia to the Olympics.

Jason is a consistent top 10 skater. His scores put him no where near the top five at worlds which is what he would need to Make top two priority let only top one priority.

Technically and jump wise Jason is not competitive. He has had about a decade to develop this content and hasn’t.

Ilia in contrast is very very talented. His jumps are competive with the very best in the world. With that content he could move up the world standings very quickly.

The current world silver medalist is a very young skater. The Japanese federation got him out quickly. That’s what smart federations do.

Chen may be retiring so may Vincent. They want Ilia to be 2026 OGM they should want him to get experience quickly Olympic experience is invaluable.

Body of work isn’t suppose to be about propping up skaters.

Frankly Ilia’s jumps are stronger than Vincent’s. They would be foolish not to give them the chance. The most Jason will give them is top 7

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I thin

I think they would be foolish not to send Ilia to the Olympics.

Jason is a consistent top 10 skater. His scores put him no where near the top five at worlds which is what he would need to Make top two priority let only top one priority.

Technically and jump wise Jason is not competitive. He has had about a decade to develop this content and hasn’t.

Ilia in contrast is very very talented. His jumps are competive with the very best in the world. With that content he could move up the world standings very quickly.

The current world silver medalist is a very young skater. The Japanese federation got him out quickly. That’s what smart federations do.

Chen may be retiring so may Vincent. They want Ilia to be 2026 OGM they should want him to get experience quickly Olympic experience is invaluable.

Body of work isn’t suppose to be about propping up skaters.

Frankly Ilia’s jumps are stronger than Vincent’s. They would be foolish not to give them the chance. The most Jason will give them is top 7

Let's see if Malinin can hold it together in the FS first before we count out Jason.

Jason has had a very solid season so far, and while Malinin has way more firepower, Brown is (rightfully) revered by international judges and doesn't have to execute much elements-wise to get guaranteed 90+ PCS. Brown can reliably pull 90+ SPs and 165-175 FS (for a total of 260-ish; he scored 264.20 and 259.55 in his GP events this season).

In contrast, Malinin's best score from JGP Austria this season is (81/164) 245. Of course, it's not the best barometer as his Nationals SP would score about 95 points internationally, even with tough judging... and we have to see what he does tomorrow.

My thoughts is that Malinin will outscore Brown tomorrow but I think Brown will be sent. It'll be like Japanese Nationals 2014 where they granted Takahashi a victory lap Olympics at the expense of Kozuka and Oda who placed ahead of him (although Oda had a GPF bronze, Takahashi's NHK gold and being a beloved fave helped his case), or US Nationals 2014 where Ashley was sent over Mirai for BOW (a gold/silver on the GP and bronze at the GPF).

Malinin would have to produce some crazy magic - like 4 quads and beat Brown by like 20 points for the USFS to even consider him over Brown and even then, they'll give the victory lap to Brown for being a solid team member over the years. And like Takahashi, he might be a technical bust at the Olympics but his presence and skating will still be more marketable and more appreciated.

Malinin's time will come though hopefully.

 

[Greengemmonster]

Can Ilia go to 4CC or Junior Worlds?

He can start by winning one or both of those events (no idea when they are held). That would send a message.

Well landing a bunch of quads tomorrow would send a message too but you get the idea!

 

[bekalc]

Let's see if Malinin can hold it together in the FS first before we count out Jason.

Jason has had a very solid season so far, and while Malinin has way more firepower, Brown is (rightfully) revered by international judges and doesn't have to execute much elements-wise to get guaranteed 90+ PCS. Brown can reliably pull 90+ SPs and 165-175 FS (for a total of 260-ish; he scored 264.20 and 259.55 in his GP events this season).

In contrast, Malinin's best score from JGP Austria this season is (81/164) 245. Of course, it's not the best barometer as his Nationals SP would score about 95 points internationally, even with tough judging... and we have to see what he does tomorrow.

My thoughts is that Malinin will outscore Brown tomorrow but I think Brown will be sent. It'll be like Japanese Nationals 2014 where they granted Takahashi a victory lap Olympics at the expense of Kozuka and Oda who placed ahead of him (although Oda had a GPF bronze, Takahashi's NHK gold and being a beloved fave helped his case), or US Nationals 2014 where Ashley was sent over Mirai for BOW (a gold/silver on the GP and bronze at the GPF).

Malinin would have to produce some crazy magic - like 4 quads and beat Brown by like 20 points for the USFS to even consider him over Brown and even then, they'll give the victory lap to Brown for being a solid team member over the years. And like Takahashi, he might be a technical bust at the Olympics but his presence and skating will still be more marketable and more appreciated.

Malinin's time will come though hopefully.

That would be very foolish on the part of USFSA.

Ashley and Brown do not compare nor does Mirai with Ilia.

Ashley had a two recent top five world performances and was consistently scoring around top five in the world.

Brown is consistently top 10 skater but he is not scored top five worlds. It would have to be an Olympic splatfest for him to get top 5.

Personally I understand the principle of body of work but I think it should only be awarded to skaters who show they could compete for a world and Olympic medal.

Ilia is extremely talented and body of work should not be used to keep out extremely talented skaters.

He is far more likely to be a world and Olympic medalist than Alyssa IMO. His technique is top notch.

This is someone you want on the world stage ASAP for experience because he could be competing for OGM in four years.

The most promising young US skater since Nathan.

As far marketing. The star is Nathan not Jason and the marketing of heir apparent sells itself.

 

[moonvine]

I thin

I think they would be foolish not to send Ilia to the Olympics.

Jason is a consistent top 10 skater. His scores put him no where near the top five at worlds which is what he would need to Make top two priority let only top one priority.

Technically and jump wise Jason is not competitive. He has had about a decade to develop this content and hasn’t.

Ilia in contrast is very very talented. His jumps are competive with the very best in the world. With that content he could move up the world standings very quickly.

The current world silver medalist is a very young skater. The Japanese federation got him out quickly. That’s what smart federations do.

Chen may be retiring so may Vincent. They want Ilia to be 2026 OGM they should want him to get experience quickly Olympic experience is invaluable.

Body of work isn’t suppose to be about propping up skaters.

Frankly Ilia’s jumps are stronger than Vincent’s. They would be foolish not to give them the chance. The most Jason will give them is top 7

Vincent has said he was not retiring. Jimmy Ma is not retiring. Of course they could change their minds.

US Fed has been making good decisions for awhile, to include sending Karen to Worlds, which people were having a fit over.

Ilia is a good jumper who skates like a junior. He does not have skating skills of our top men and has skated one senior International event in his life. I think it’s bizarre to even discuss putting a skater on the Olympic team based on a single good SP at a domestic event. But that’s just me, I know others feel differently.

For better or worse the US Fed has published selection criteria that are about as transparent as 35 page document can be. Ilia currently isn’t even Priority 4 for Olympic team selection. If he places anywhere in the top 5 he can move up to Priority 4. That will not get him on the team. Nathan is Priority 1 provided he finishes in the top 5. I can’t imagine him not doing so unless he, God forbid, should get Covid. If he did he would still be Priority 1 because Priority 1 includes successful petitions. Vincent if he finishes top 3 I believe would also be Priority 1 and I believe if he finishes top 5 he’s priority 2. If Ilia finishes 1, 2 or 3 he would move up to Priority 3, where Jason already is. If he doesn’t finish in the top 3 it’s not even a conversation.

 

[moonvine]

Can Ilia go to 4CC or Junior Worlds?

He can start by winning one or both of those events (no idea when they are held). That would send a message.

Well landing a bunch of quads tomorrow would send a message too but you get the idea!

My understanding is that if he is named as an alternate to the Olympics he will not go to 4CCs. I’m sure he can go to Junior Worlds, but if they are before the Olympics he may not be able to go to those either. He doesn’t have the tech minimums to go to Senior Worlds, though I’m sure he could get them.

 

[Greengemmonster]

My understanding is that if he is named as an alternate to the Olympics he will not go to 4CCs. I’m sure he can go to Junior Worlds, but if they are before the Olympics he may not be able to go to those either. He doesn’t have the tech minimums to go to Senior Worlds, though I’m sure he could get them.

Arrghhhh the lousy alternate deal kills me!!!!

I wonder what the skaters want. A reasonably big competition or alternate?

 

[bekalc]

Vincent has said he was not retiring. Jimmy Ma is not retiring. Of course they could change their minds.

US Fed has been making good decisions for awhile, to include sending Karen to Worlds, which people were having a fit over.

Ilia is a good jumper who skates like a junior. He does not have skating skills of our top men and has skated one senior International event in his life. I think it’s bizarre to even discuss putting a skater on the Olympic team based on a single good SP at a domestic event. But that’s just me, I know others feel differently.

For better or worse the US Fed has published selection criteria that are about as transparent as 35 page document can be. Ilia currently isn’t even Priority 4 for Olympic team selection. If he places anywhere in the top 5 he can move up to Priority 4. That will not get him on the team. Nathan is Priority 1 provided he finishes in the top 5. I can’t imagine him not doing so unless he, God forbid, should get Covid. If he did he would still be Priority 1 because Priority 1 includes successful petitions. Vincent if he finishes top 3 I believe would also be Priority 1 and I believe if he finishes top 5 he’s priority 2. If Ilia finishes 1, 2 or 3 he would move up to Priority 3, where Jason already is. If he doesn’t finish in the top 3 it’s not even a conversation.

Well I wouldn’t send Ilia if he doesn’t finish top 3 but if he does I feel we should send him. What exactly is there to lose?

Jason is not going to be an individual medalist. So why not send the young kid with the great jumps?

 

[yume]

Well I wouldn’t send Ilia if he doesn’t finish top 3 but if he does I feel we should send him. What exactly is there to lose?

Jason is not going to be an individual medalist. So why not send the young kid with the great jumps?

If this was the Japanese fed they would have. But BOW has more weight than nats results in US.

Honestly i don't think Malinin expect to go to olys. He's there to gain experience and enjoy the event. I hope he won't read SM and will just focus on his FP.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Well I wouldn’t send Ilia if he doesn’t finish top 3 but if he does I feel we should send him. What exactly is there to lose?

Jason is not going to be an individual medalist. So why not send the young kid with the great jumps?

I think Jason might have something to say about that lol.

Malinin would literally have his first major senior event be the Olympics (I don’t really count 2020 Slate America). Jason is a seasoned competitor who has consistently pulled higher scores than Malinin.

I adore Malinin’s firepower but there is a lot to be desired in his skating and I don’t think he is ready yet for the Olympics. The international judges won’t give him scores even close to Jason’s.

At CS Austria where he got bronze he got just 70.20 PCS in his FS and 222.55 overall. His SP got 67.58 points and he erred on all 3 passes which wouldn’t have even made the FS at Worlds 2021.

Of course his SP was brilliant here but Nationals and internationals are different things.

It’s an Olympic spot so saying give the kid a chance (he hasn’t even done the FS yet) is premature and kinda shady to a reliable viable skater like Brown.

If Malinin comes 3rd def send the kid to Worlds. It will give him time to prepare not have as much pressure and face a weaker field and will be a more technically viable option to maintain three spots.

 

[moonvine]

Arrghhhh the lousy alternate deal kills me!!!!

I wonder what the skaters want. A reasonably big competition or alternate?

I know right???

 

[bekalc]

I think Jason might have something to say about that lol.

Malinin would literally have his first major senior event be the Olympics (I don’t really count 2020 Slate America). Jason is a seasoned competitor who has consistently pulled higher scores than Malinin.

I adore Malinin’s firepower but there is a lot to be desired in his skating and I don’t think he is ready yet for the Olympics. The international judges won’t give him scores even close to Jason’s.

At CS Austria where he got bronze he got just 70.20 PCS in his FS and 222.55 overall. His SP got 67.58 points and he erred on all 3 passes which wouldn’t have even made the FS at Worlds 2021.

Of course his SP was brilliant here but Nationals and internationals are different things.

It’s an Olympic spot so saying give the kid a chance (he hasn’t even done the FS yet) is premature and kinda shady to a reliable viable skater like Brown.

If Malinin comes 3rd def send the kid to Worlds. It will give him time to prepare not have as much pressure and face a weaker field and will be a more technically viable option to maintain three spots.

Say about what. Jason does not have the jumps to compete with the top men.

Yes he consistently places in the top 10 but that is partially cuz he doesn’t have anywhere near the tech content as the other top men and capitalized on their errors

Malinin has jump content that could make him very very competive on the world stage.

Strategically it actually makes more sense to send Malinin to the Olympics and Brown to worlds precisely cuz spots are on the line.
Malinin is talented enough to be competive for the medals four years from now.

You send him so he can experience the Olympics and that pressure so he will be ready four years from now.

Once again Jason is not a really competitive for a medal so why not it’s an investment in your future.

As for PCs they are much lower in juniors.

What is the difference for US if Malin placed 12 and Brown placed 8th but Malin gets Olympic experience to Prepare for four years later?

 

[moonvine]

I adore Malinin’s firepower but there is a lot to be desired in his skating and I don’t think he is ready yet for the Olympics. The international judges won’t give him scores even close to Jason’s.



It’s an Olympic spot so saying give the kid a chance (he hasn’t even done the FS yet) is premature and kinda shady to a reliable viable skater like Brown.

If Malinin comes 3rd def send the kid to Worlds. It will give him time to prepare not have as much pressure and face a weaker field and will be a more technically viable option to maintain three spots.

People go nuts over a single program. Yes, if he comes in 3rd sure, send him to Worlds. When he went to Junior Worlds he came in 15th.

 

[moonvine]

If this was the Japanese fed they would have. But BOW has more weight than nats results in US.

Honestly i don't think Malinin expect to go to olys. He's there to gain experience and enjoy the event. I hope he won't read SM and will just focus on his FP.

I don’t care what Japanese Fed does. I don’t live in Japan.

 

[yume]

I don’t care what Japanese Fed does. I don’t live in Japan.

Ok.

 

[bekalc]

People go nuts over a single program. Yes, if he comes in 3rd sure, send him to Worlds. When he went to Junior Worlds he came in 15th.

Wasn’t he like 15 then? He has some pretty high tech content here and a very strong free at a JGPF event.