2018 Europeans Mens SP

[Mrs. P]

This is too pessimistic an outlook. You never know when the next talent is going to breeze onto the rink and shake things up.

European men are at an ebb right now, but that can change in a season.

For one -- there are quite a few promising Russian men in juniors.... I think Deniss and Matteo can be big heavy hitters in the future.

 

[shine]

That said, I do wish some skaters would ditch the old classical warhorses that really don't speak to me much. I'd much rather see a contemporary piece of music than yet another Turandot, Carmen, Mozart anything, etc. (and I say this as a classical musician, the fact is not much has been done to endear the genre to the majority of young folks, even if there are a percentage of us who like it). There's plenty of neoclassical music, even, that works better. But I agree, more musical experimentation! More pop, more theatre music, more exploration and boundary pushing! The last time I successfully introduced a friend to skating, it was with Jason Brown's "Dear Evan Hansen" ex -- contemporary music skated with feeling.

And it's not weird at all as a classical musician to lump "Mozart" in with the likes of Turandot and Carmen as if Mozart was one singular piece of warhorse music..........

Figure skating has probably only ever touched 5% of Mozart's compositions.

 

[Florian]

This is too pessimistic an outlook. You never know when the next talent is going to breeze onto the rink and shake things up.

European men are at an ebb right now, but that can change in a season.

I know it's pessimistic, but I don't think it will change soon. There may be a new talent every now and then, but it will be an exception and it won't raise the general level. Not long ago we had 3 French, 3 Russians, 2 Czech and a few skater from other countries to fight for the medals. And they had a level where they also had a chance to medal at worlds. Today we only have Javi who can do this. And additionally we had skaters with interesting programs and personalities like Contesti, Berntsson and Schultheiss, van der Perren. I miss it.

 

[NoNameFace]

Interesting to note (from looking at the protocols), only 4 men (out of 36) were awarded all level 4's on their spins and steps:
Vasiljevs (3), Rizzo (6), Reznichenko (17), and Belohradsky (28).

Igor was first in something, how great!!!

 

[Sabrina]

I've just watched Deniss' skate, and I have to say Stephane looks so hot, the ice may melt. I really miss his skating. Deniss was very good, and he deserves third place in this splat fest.

 

[Florian]

And it's not weird at all as a classical musician to lump "Mozart" in with the likes of Turandot and Carmen as if Mozart was one singular piece of warhorse music..........

Figure skating has probably only ever touched 5% of Mozart's compositions.

I agree. Kolyada's music and program is one of the best. Mozart is not overused. One only needs to sell it. But yeah, it definitely needs more experimentations generally.

 

[Alifyre]

And it's not weird at all as a classical musician to lump "Mozart" in with the likes of Turandot and Carmen as if Mozart was one singular piece of warhorse music..........

Figure skating has probably only ever touched 5% of Mozart's compositions.

And I would be fine with it staying that way, personally.

Are Turandot and Carmen and Mozart (and many other classical warhorses I could name) all very different, period-wise, stylistically, and in other ways? Absolutely. Did I make my post to talk about music history? Nope, it was to make a point about how music from time long gone by, (be it many decades or a couple centuries) might be less than ideal for attracting younger audiences.

 

[Elucidus]

Alina multitasking, stretching, calling, talking to Evgenia and peeling an orange.

It's no wonder considering what busy FP she is used to handle

 

[matmuh]

Seeing your opinion over Kolyada and Vasiljevs I realize that my impression is while Deniss' programs are doing him and his skills a real lift, favour and highlight the best of him, the opposite is with Mikhail in my opinion - those programs kind of create the image that Mikhail is supposed to be than skater he is and project/promote his great skills quite poorly... I would love to see e.g. Lambiel's choreography for Mikhail one day, using in full those lines, edges, intricacy and flow...

i might be wrong and please correct me if i am but didnt Stephane choreograph his SP? even if not completely he was involved in the process :think:

 

[TontoK]

And I would be fine with it staying that way, personally.

Are Turandot and Carmen and Mozart (and many other classical warhorses I could name) all very different, period-wise, stylistically, and in other ways? Absolutely. Did I make my post to talk about music history? Nope, it was to make a point about how music from time long gone by, (be it many decades or a couple centuries) might be less than ideal for attracting younger audiences.

On the other hand, Jimmy Ma's SP at US Nationals was a sensation. But I found it darn near unwatchable.

Not all Mozart is a warhorse. The Mozart "catalog" is wide open with "fresh" music that hasn't been used in skating. Or at least overused.

It's not how old the music is... I think it's a matter of relative "newness" to figure skating. There is a TON of music, crossing all genres and even centuries, that hasn't been used.

I mean, somebody had to be the first to skate with Chaplin music. They took the risk.

I thought that Jason Brown could have skated a terrific short program to California Dreamin' by the Mamas and the Papas. I've never seen that in skating before, and I think a good choreographer could make it spectacular. The music is familiar, but fresh to skating, and the instrumental run screams for a footwork section.

 

[Alifyre]

On the other hand, Jimmy Ma's SP at US Nationals was a sensation. But I found it darn near unwatchable.

Not all Mozart is a warhorse. The Mozart "catalog" is wide open with "fresh" music that hasn't been used in skating. Or at least overused.

It's not how old the music is... I think it's a matter of relative "newness" to figure skating. There is a TON of music, crossing all genres and even centuries, that hasn't been used.

I mean, somebody had to be the first to skate with Chaplin music. They took the risk.

I thought that Jason Brown could have skated a terrific short program to California Dreamin' by the Mamas and the Papas. I've never seen that in skating before, and I think a good choreographer could make it spectacular. The music is familiar, but fresh to skating, and the instrumental run screams for a footwork section.

Oh I'm not arguing that Mozart is overdone (perhaps I shouldn't have lumped it into "warhorses," but rather just "old"). I even think that old pieces can be really striking and enjoyable to watch when they're well done (even actual warhorses like Turandot!). My point is more in the category of "what is likely to attract young viewers?" And in my opinion, that would be something contemporary. Something more broadly known and palatable for a younger generation would be a good jumping off point for the sport for people my age is all I'm saying. I may not have been the biggest fan of the Jimmy Ma SP either, but it certainly made a splash among younger people!

 

[NoNameFace]

i might be wrong and please correct me if i am but didnt Stephane choreograph his SP? even if not completely he was involved in the process :think:

If that is the case, I am even more confused... Or just his performance today got me totally wrong

 

[icetug]

i might be wrong and please correct me if i am but didnt Stephane choreograph his SP? even if not completely he was involved in the process :think:

No, he did step sequences for both Mikhail's programs. Olga Kliushnichenko was a choreographer.

 

[TontoK]

Oh I'm not arguing that Mozart is overdone (perhaps I shouldn't have lumped it into "warhorses," but rather just "old"). I even think that old pieces can be really striking and enjoyable to watch when they're well done (even actual warhorses like Turandot!). My point is more in the category of "what is likely to attract young viewers?" And in my opinion, that would be something contemporary. Something more broadly known and palatable for a younger generation would be a good jumping off point for the sport for people my age is all I'm saying. I may not have been the biggest fan of the Jimmy Ma SP either, but it certainly made a splash among younger people!

I think I see what you're saying. And you're absolutely correct about Jimmy Ma. The youngsters loved it.

I talked about this a bit on a Canadian thread. Their third lady is Larkyn Austman, who is a new face for me this season (although she's more of a veteran, I think).

She looks so modern and pretty, and her LP is to Les Mis. That girl SHOULD be skating to something fresher and more hip than that.

 

[vorravorra]

Funny that I was walking back from work and thought pretty much the same

Looking even at season's best FS scores, the SP gap seems really significant for final results, even taking into account Aliev's problems with stamina. It is about 17 points - however, we have see this season quite bizarre scenarios and leads blown up after SP, so I do not rule out anything. Me thinks that Aliev will be more motivated than nervous and could play a real spoiler here, which would be good for him and interesting point made just before Olympics; his only problem could be stamina being not in par with his will. Samarin OTOH looks for me kind of nervy and unsure all the time, so it is hard to tell decisively how it will go in FS. Interstingly, he has had so far more successful SPs than FS in competitions this season I think, so this could be something interesting to see. These errors today were most of all costly overall in terms of 'closing the gap'/keeping the distance kind of thing, it was nothing like level lost on a spin or steps. The key is not repeat them in free.

Samarin also doesn't quite have enough stamina to skate a full FS, he is just not as bad as Aliev. He lost time between seasons due to an injury and had to catch up. None of Samarin's free skates this season even had all three combos in it. He does the difficult elements at the beginning and then starts to run out of steam. However, there being a break between the SP and the FS should work in Samarin's favour.

 

[shine]

Oh I'm not arguing that Mozart is overdone (perhaps I shouldn't have lumped it into "warhorses," but rather just "old"). I even think that old pieces can be really striking and enjoyable to watch when they're well done (even actual warhorses like Turandot!). My point is more in the category of "what is likely to attract young viewers?" And in my opinion, that would be something contemporary. Something more broadly known and palatable for a younger generation would be a good jumping off point for the sport for people my age is all I'm saying. I may not have been the biggest fan of the Jimmy Ma SP either, but it certainly made a splash among younger people!

Should skating as an art form be steered away from classical music just because "it doesn't attract young audiences"? I find this populist approach quite bothersome.

 

[vorravorra]

Seeing your opinion over Kolyada and Vasiljevs I realize that my impression is while Deniss' programs are doing him and his skills a real lift, favour and highlight the best of him, the opposite is with Mikhail in my opinion - those programs kind of create the image that Mikhail is supposed to be than skater he is and project/promote his great skills quite poorly... I would love to see e.g. Lambiel's choreography for Mikhail one day, using in full those lines, edges, intricacy and flow...

The problem for Mikhail is combining it all with the tech. If he didn't have to do quads it would be a different matter. But I think next season they are going to experiment more. He himself definitely wants to do so.

 

[berry8]

Watching this event was incredibly depressing... I don't dare to watch the free

 

[TontoK]

Watching this event was incredibly depressing... I don't dare watching the free

I watched Javi. It wasn't terrible.

Then I watched Kolyada. If that was good enough for 4th, I don't need to see any more.

 

[mrrice]

I usually agree with MRRICE's assessment this one I am a bit off. I am not sure Bradie has show the artistic potential Mirai, Maria or Kaetlyn or Kolyada have shown.

I agree completely when it comes to artistry. It's the technical aspect where Bradie takes the lead over Mirai. Mirai got a standing ovation and looked like she was going win. It was Bradie who took the title from Mirai's grasp. Anything less than her nearly perfect LP and she probably would have finished off the Podium after the way the ladies preceding her had skated. Even Ashley had received a screaming standing ovation before Bradie took the ice. It took nerves of steel to handle the pressure that was on her shoulders.....Does she need work artistically, yes. However, her technical ability will keep her in the game. I think it was Ashley's technical mistakes that cost her more than it was her new program.