2018 Europeans Mens SP

[kevinVchicago]

I counted 18 falls across 36 programs...and this is just the SP. :noshake:

Traumatic.

 

[el henry]

I watched Javi. It wasn't terrible.

Then I watched Kolyada. If that was good enough for 4th, I don't need to see any more.

Tonto, if you can accept that he doesn’t do a quad, doesn’t even try a quad (and I mean that sincerely, I’m not saying you should, I’m saying if you can), watch Deniss Vasiljevs. I would be interested in what you think of his other skills.

Which I think are manifold and great.

 

[TontoK]

Tonto, if you can accept that he doesn’t do a quad, doesn’t even try a quad (and I mean that sincerely, I’m not saying you should, I’m saying if you can), watch Deniss Vasiljevs. I would be interested in what you think of his other skills.

Which I think are manifold and great.

Your advice is generally worth following, so I watched. Very impressive!

He ran himself into a corner on the combo, but those other jumps were "nothing but net." I liked the style of the program very much!

He looks young enough to develop over the quad. How old is he?

 

[Florian]

Your advice is generally worth following, so I watched. Very impressive!

He ran himself into a corner on the combo, but those other jumps were "nothing but net." I liked the style of the program very much!

He looks young enough to develop over the quad. How old is he?

He's 18, same age as Nathan Chen. He may develop one quad, but these days I doubt that skaters can still really "learn" it. Either they have it in them or not. And if they who don't have it, try it all the time, their art suffers and everybody only focusses on when they finally will have it anyway. Beautiful skating and art is a good and rare thing, but without a stable quad it won't have an effect anymore.

 

[TontoK]

He's 18, same age as Nathan Chen. He may develop one quad, but these days I doubt that skaters can still really "learn" it. Either they have it in them or not. And if they who don't have it, try it all the time, their art suffers and everybody only focusses on when they finally will have it anyway. Beautiful skating and art is a good and rare thing, but without a stable quad it won't have an effect anymore.

Thank you!

However, in the context I meant "quad" to mean "next four years" as in run-up to the next Olympics in Beijing.

It's my fault for using a term that was unclear and has another very specific definition in figure skating. Apologies.

 

[silverfoxes]

I know it's pessimistic, but I don't think it will change soon. There may be a new talent every now and then, but it will be an exception and it won't raise the general level. Not long ago we had 3 French, 3 Russians, 2 Czech and a few skater from other countries to fight for the medals. And they had a level where they also had a chance to medal at worlds. Today we only have Javi who can do this. And additionally we had skaters with interesting programs and personalities like Contesti, Berntsson and Schultheiss, van der Perren. I miss it.

Well, it isn't the fault of the European skaters that Japan became such a powerhouse. The USA has not had a Worlds medalist since 2009, now Nathan could potentially medal, but you can see there has been a drought there as well. Canada will have no medal favorite when Patrick is gone (and Patrick is not really a strong contender any more, either). Everything is cyclical.

I liked Berntsson and Schultheiss, but they were very limited technically. I don't know what you have against Deniss, but he is most certainly a promising talent with medal potential, whether you like him or not. Can't please everybody. Moris, if he could ever show a bit of consistency, could be a strong skater - he did well at CoR and at the last Worlds, although the small-fed PCS holds him back. There are also interesting and creative juniors like Kevin Aymoz, Luc Economides, and Matyas Belohradsky. I feel like there is a bit of rose-colored glasses nostalgia going on...yes, I miss a lot of the European men who retired, but they were not all the model of consistency either, and they were mostly not attempting the same kind of content that is expected of men today.

 

[SKY1118]

Maybe he said "no quad."

No, Stephane actually said "no blood". As in a show (probably music on ice), Deniss performed his SP and accidentally cut his hand during the spin. So, no blood this time! :thumbsup:

 

[el henry]

Your advice is generally worth following, so I watched. Very impressive!

He ran himself into a corner on the combo, but those other jumps were "nothing but net." I liked the style of the program very much!

He looks young enough to develop over the quad. How old is he?

I’m glad you didn’t think it was time wasred, although I know you would also feel free to tell me so (and I hope you would if you did) Deniss is 18, so he is in the “gray zone”. I hope, for his competitive aspirations, that he does develop a quad, and he does still have some time, but I would hate to see him lose his “it” factor in the process. And IMHO, he has the “it” factor.

If he can do both, so much the better.:agree:

 

[blue_idealist]

No, Stephane actually said "no blood". As in a show (probably music on ice), Deniss performed his SP and accidentally cut his hand during the spin. So, no blood this time! :thumbsup:

I remember now that he cut his hand in some competition last season, too. I think it was last season. It was Euros or a GP I believe.

 

[TontoK]

I’m glad you didn’t think it was time wasred, although I know you would also feel free to tell me so (and I hope you would if you did) Deniss is 18, so he is in the “gray zone”. I hope, for his competitive aspirations, that he does develop a quad, and he does still have some time, but I would hate to see him lose his “it” factor in the process. And IMHO, he has the “it” factor.

If he can do both, so much the better.:agree:

I have used unclear language, since you are the second GSer who thought I meant "quad" the jump, rather than "quad" the four-year cycle leading to the next Olympics.

And I apologize for the confusion. I think, since he is only 18, that we can look forward to him developing both technically and artistically over the next four years. And I very much look forward to seeing him on that journey. Count me as a new fan.

He's got a good coach, that's for sure!

 

[medoroa]

Should skating as an art form be steered away from classical music just because "it doesn't attract young audiences"? I find this populist approach quite bothersome.

I don't disagree with either of the viewpoints in this discussion (there's a ton of classical music that hasn't even been tapped into! / a lot of skaters really should be branching out from classical!), but the conclusion I've come to during this season is that........... a ton of skaters currently skate to more contemporary music, especially now that lyrics are allowed, but they (or their coaches) seem to have bad taste and pick watered-down muzak covers of songs that were bland to begin with and/or cut together incoherent selections of pop songs to make abhorrent programs.

But mostly I don't agree that not enough skaters are doing contemporary music. They totally are. Most of their programs are just bad. I liked the Austrian and Italian pairs last night, but those are the exceptions. Also, I really don't think slow Coldplay songs or that Mad World cover are inherently more interesting than Mozart just because it's newer... actually, the exact opposite.

 

[moonvine]

I forgot this was on. The icenetwork coverage is five hours long. Not sure I can watch it for 5 hours.

 

[moonvine]

Should skating as an art form be steered away from classical music just because "it doesn't attract young audiences"? I find this populist approach quite bothersome.

I don't really understand it. I grew up watching skating with my mother starting in the 70's and the music didn't bother me, and I was young. Some of it I'm sick of by now, but I'd never recognize "Bolero" or "Carmen" if it weren't for skating. I'm all for skaters being able to use any music they want to, but I don't see musical selection really drawing in more viewers. They've made so many changes to skating through the years to draw more viewers. Maybe getting rid of school figures helped, but a lot of these other changes seem to see viewership dropping heavily regardless.

 

[3T3T]

A clear lead for Javi, unless he has a major disaster in the free he is going to stroll to the title. Nice to see Aliev in 2nd, not sure he will be there after the free but he looked good in the short. Dennis V had a great skate, he did everything he good, I really like the last spin. A medal will be a big ask for him but if he skates to his best and the others mess up (highly likely) he may have a chance.

Disappointing for Kolyada but he is very much in the mix. Really shocked to see Samarin mess up big time, he has been very solid all season. His Olympic place is in jeopardy now, he was to do. I enjoyed Rizzo and Morris K (Eteri was not happy). Others I enjoyed were the Armenian, Montoya and Naurtis. Very poor for Paniot to not make the free, has he been guaranteed the Olympic place? Samohin is a disaster, he just always seems to mess up.

It was nice to see an Irish skater take part. He opened with a nice combo but it was bit sloppy after that. He wasn’t going to qualify but a PB was possible. Hopefully he will build from this.

 

[lyverbird1]

It was nice to see an Irish skater take part. He opened with a nice combo but it was bit sloppy after that. He wasn’t going to qualify but a PB was possible. Hopefully he will build from this.

Yes indeed, thrilled to see Conor take his place and hopefully he and other Irish skaters can build on the experience. Maybe we could adopt some skaters considered surplus to requirements in other skating nations as well as developing our own. Would have been nice to see that rink given planning permission at Liffey Valley - complaints about extra traffic in the area but they grant permission for a new Tesco supermarket?!

I'm thrilled to see the quality of Javi, bar the extra turn at the end of the sal. That axel and toe loop combo were utterly top drawer and he hit every beat along the way. If he retains the quality, I'm hoping he can still be a factor at Olympics in the face of quad-fall-stumble-quad-wobble type programmes.

 

[da96103]

I've just watched Deniss' skate, and I have to say Stephane looks so hot, the ice may melt. I really miss his skating. Deniss was very good, and he deserves third place in this splat fest.

Will Stephane win Olympic Gold for hottest coach?

 

[MGstyle]

World Feed is now on air.

Here is the link for the World Feed coverage on the British Eurosport Player:
https://gb.eurosportplayer.com/even...p-russia/1600493f-7df7-434b-b974-be0000de5ccc

CaroLiza_fan

I was wondering how did you find/access this? I subscribe to Eurosport player, and I have been finding the live streaming link without commentary by going to the search function, then clicking on "live streaming" and I got a whole long list of streaming links and there was what I was looking for among them, or that was how it worked while GP were being held. Now I click on "live streaming" it keeps saying "NO RESULTS" I couldn't find the link for the life of me... if you could tell me how else to get to it, I am immensely grateful!!!

 

[tureis]

You know, all this talk about classical/old music being boring compared to modern stuff. I'm here in Moscow sitting through hours worth of programs to modern music, from Christina Aguilera to Ed Sheeran to god knows how many attempts at massarcing Moulin Rouge to the point where I can't even bear the thought of that film anymore, and being bored stiff because the actual programs have nothing whatsoever to do with the music. I guess the thinking must be the same: let's choose some music that the young crowd will relate to and the old crowd will tolerate and just hope that the music will somehow sell the skater doing whatever choreography randomly attached to the music, without having any connection to the style and tempo. Because here's the thing: a program is only as good as the choreography and how well that brings out the stlye and character of the music, no matter what era it may be from. So guess which programs got the audience really going in the arena during the mens SP yesterday? Charlie Chaplin, Tosca and Masquerade Waltz. Not because of what the music was, but because of how well it was used. If the music not being from the last 10 or 50 or whatever years makes any of them boring to anyone, well sorry but that's your loss...

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

I was wondering how did you find/access this? I subscribe to Eurosport player, and I have been finding the live streaming link without commentary by going to the search function, then clicking on "live streaming" and I got a whole long list of streaming links and there was what I was looking for among them, or that was how it worked while GP were being held. Now I click on "live streaming" it keeps saying "NO RESULTS" I couldn't find the link for the life of me... if you could tell me how else to get to it, I am immensely grateful!!!

Sorry for the late reply. I've been writing an update to a Fan Fest, and only signed back in there now.

What I normally do when making out the TV schedule post is go straight to the figure skating listings (ESP Italia: Today, Tomorrow, 2 days time, 3 days time, 4 days time, 5 days time, 6 days time, 7 days time)

But on the day when I come to watch, I go into the schedule page (ESP Italia Schedule) and then click through to the horizontal listings by clicking on the button at the top left of the page, beside where it says "All Sports". And then it is a case of scrolling across to the start time, and then down the page until you find the figure skating.

For the Men's SP, the ESP Italia link was:

https://it.eurosportplayer.com/even...p-russia/1600493f-7df7-434b-b974-be0000de5ccc

As you can see, the link is the same as the British Eurosport link, but with a different country code at the start. This is normally the case with the World Feeds. HOWEVER, it does not normally work like this for the broadcasts on ESP1 and ESP2. Unfortunately.

Hope this sheds some light on how it works

CaroLiza_fan

 

[silverfoxes]

Yes, I think there are just as many bad programs to modern vocal music as there are to classical or warhorses. I can't bear power ballads or Ed Sheeran/Sam Smith/Josh Groban "I'm so sensitive" programs. Now, I am also sick of Charlie Chaplin in any form and wish Javi had done something different, but he is far from the only skater staying in their comfort zone this season. His Black Betty will always be my favorite program, I think.

David Wilson generally does seem to go for these more old fashioned pieces. I like him as a person very much, but many choreographers also get stuck in their comfort zone. It's good that there are younger up & coming choreographers with fresh ideas. Variety is the spice of life & there should be something in skating for every taste (of course, the skaters have to enjoy their own music too).