2018 US Championships Sr Men FS

[NAOTMAA]

Carol Heiss did and surely Sonja Henie must have.

you don't win 10 world titles by skipping years!

but yes she did: 1927-1936

 

[Eislauf]

Why doesn’t Jason Brown take from known technical coaches like Frank Carroll or Tom Z. full time? He could be untouchable if only he could master the 3Axel and quad jumps. Such a pity because his basic skating is so artistically gorgeous!

+100. I think he's actually regressed with his tech content since the last Olympic cycle. Some of that, granted, was probably due to his ongoing injuries.

I also would love to see Jason skate to choreo by someone other than Rohene. Jason's movements (espec those endless high kicks and leg stretches) seem stale and recycled. "Hamilton" was too camp and too showboat-y for an Olympic program. Better for Stars on Ice, imho.

 

[Eislauf]

Just out of curiosity, did Mark Mitchell step on someone's toes by any chance? Not even first alternated is just distasteful!

MM's not the friendliest guy in the world. He doesn't acknowledge your presence even if you see him all the time at the rink. But, benefit of the doubt and all...maybe he's just shy or preoccupied.

At 2014 US Nats in Boston, I walked up to introduce myself to Frank Carroll, who could not have been more polite or gracious even though he had a crowd of people around him angling to talk to him. I was impressed.

 

[TCAngel18]

MM's not the friendliest guy in the world. But maybe he's just shy. At 2014 US Nats in Boston, I met Frank Carroll, who could not have been more polite or gracious even though he had a crowd of people around him angling to say hello and talk to him. I was impressed.

Mark Mitchell also was hosed before in place of others in his skating career, so he probably didn’t have much confidence in USFSA, and this proved his point.

 

[ioanablabla]

Why doesn’t Jason Brown take from known technical coaches like Frank Carroll or Tom Z. full time? He could be untouchable if only he could master the 3Axel and quad jumps. Such a pity because his basic skating is so artistically gorgeous!

If quads were so easy, I would be doibg one. But they are not. I guess from a certain point you get too old for quads.

 

[flipsydoodle]

Adam has medaled more times on the Grand Prix in the past two years than Ross has HIS ENTIRE CAREER.

Adam beat Ross earlier this year as SkAm. Adam beat Ross at US Nats in 2015 and 2016. Adam has been to the past two GPF, Ross has never made them.

There are criteria in place. Sorry that you don't understand or don't like them.

Edit: This is NOT an Olympic Trial and is not billed as such. Perhaps if you stopped looking at it like that, you'd understand.

Per USFSA, nothing counted before 2017.

 

[frallik]

Without jumping 4:noshake: there's nothing to do at OG. Rippon 28bang:!!! Ross 26) was never at the Olympics. World Cup - 2010/6, 2012/13, 2015/8, 2016/6, 2018/??? That's a big mistake,waste of t&m. Fighter means from 6 to:dance2: 2, not 2-4!!! Moreover his behavior will have a negative impact:handw: on Chen and Vincent.

 

[kevinVchicago]

I don't accept it. Then again, I'm still bitter figures got eliminated. HA.

If Nationals isn't the biggest competition of the year for US skaters then they need to stop announcing the team directly after the results, because they make it appear that the Nationals results ARE the important factor.

But they said (even on NBC) it was based on three tiers of criteria [emoji17]

 

[HollyRose]

Well, I don't even know what to say other than that I'm Ashley-furious on Ross's behalf. I didn't think they'd give him both Worlds and Olympics, but neither?!? And not even first alternate for either!?!?! :dev2: I say this as a Jason fan, but it's ridiculous for him to be positioned higher than Ross as an alternate. :disagree:

And really, they didn't even give Grant 4CCs? That's just incredibly disrespectful and truly does give the appearance of playing favorites.

I do understand sending Adam to the Olympics. He has had a great season, and the precedent was set for bumping the bronze medalist for a very compelling pewter medalist, plus he's a mostly consistent choice for the team event. I just truly don't get why they chose Vincent over Ross. Ross beat him here fairly, despite Vincent's insane PCS. It's not like Vincent had a great GP season. I think the same argument that some have made about Ross having only one great performance at nationals applies to Vincent this season just as much. Plus, the international judges have not shown any inclination to reward Vincent with PCS the way he was here, along with the large number of URs he always gets.

This really leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth Also: if Ross complained about this, I think it would lower the public impression of skating even more. I convinced some friends to watch with me who don't follow skating closely, and they're all convinced ditching the silver medalist is unjustified. I can't imagine many would feel differently outside of some of those who follow skating regularly.

ETA: Even though this isn't considered Olympic Trials, NBC/NBCSN definitely made it seem that way. Friends that watched with me had the impression this was the key deciding factor for the Olympic team.

 

[#1Kerryfan]

Well, I don't even know what to say other than that I'm Ashley-furious on Ross's behalf. I didn't think they'd give him both Worlds and Olympics, but neither?!? And not even first alternate for either!?!?! :dev2: I say this as a Jason fan, but it's ridiculous for him to be positioned higher than Ross as an alternate. :disagree:

And really, they didn't even give Grant 4CCs? That's just incredibly disrespectful and truly does give the appearance of playing favorites.

I do understand sending Adam to the Olympics. He has had a great season, and the precedent was set for bumping the bronze medalist for a very compelling pewter medalist, plus he's a mostly consistent choice for the team event. I just truly don't get why they chose Vincent over Ross. Ross beat him here fairly, despite Vincent's insane PCS. It's not like Vincent had a great GP season. I think the same argument that some have made about Ross having only one great performance at nationals applies to Vincent this season just as much. Plus, the international judges have not shown any inclination to reward Vincent with PCS the way he was here, along with the large number of URs he always gets.

This really leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth Also: if Ross complained about this, I think it would lower the public impression of skating even more. I convinced some friends to watch with me who don't follow skating closely, and they're all convinced ditching the silver medalist is unjustified. I can't imagine many would feel differently outside of some of those who follow skating regularly.

ETA: Even though this isn't considered Olympic Trials, NBC/NBCSN definitely made it seem that way. Friends that watched with me had the impression this was the key deciding factor for the Olympic team.

I feel like they should have given Ross and Vincent each one of Worlds and Olympics, and then sent Adam and Nathan to both.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Serafima Sakhanovich posted a cute Instagram story with a picture of Ross In the KnC. She pasted OMG and some love emoji stickers on it. I think she was impressed. :thumbsup:

 

[reneerose]

Ross can't formally protest can he? I guess it would be even more dramatic if he did. Maybe the US Federation should just adopt a point system 2 years before and including the Olympic year, total up all the points for each skater overall and then Nationals points in pre-Olympics would count toward the total of the last 2 seasons and the Olympic year and it would be all based on numbers not placements or how well you skated at Nationals at all....pretty much i guess almost like the poster from Germany said....a point system. No more closed door private meetings as if the Fed were betting on horses. Keep it real simple. Have a funeral service for placements at Nationals and tell all that winning Nationals to earn a spot at the Olympics is dead. No more dark horses coming from behind anymore....no more surprise disappointments or surprise joy.

 

[moonvine]

Ross can't formally protest can he? I guess it would be even more dramatic if he did. Maybe the US Federation should just adopt a point system 2 years before and including the Olympic year, total up all the points for each skater overall and then Nationals points in pre-Olympics would count toward the total of the last 2 seasons and the Olympic year and it would be all based on numbers not placements or how well you skated at Nationals at all....pretty much i guess almost like the poster from Germany said....a point system. No more closed door private meetings as if the Fed were betting on horses. Keep it real simple. Have a funeral service for placements at Nationals and tell all that winning Nationals to earn a spot at the Olympics is dead. No more dark horses coming from behind anymore....no more surprise disappointments or surprise joy.

Someone on another thread said they could protest but it had to be done within an hour of the scores being posted and that they had never heard of anyone actually doing it.

 

[Lester]

Ross can't formally protest can he?

I hope he won't, that would make him look terrible!

I guess if you did introduce some point based system [kind of like the GPF], you could still pretend that Nationals figure into who gets elected [because what's the point of watching them otherwise] but I think it would look like competitors have to jump through a thousand hoops to get to go to Worlds or the Olympics, so a tough task.

I still think it's a dumb idea to have other factors outweigh Nationals and give certain skaters cushions. In the end, you could hold the people you want up with PCS if they are this good, so if even a PCS boost isn't enough, then why do you care about sending them over someone else.

 

[NathanandMiraifan111]

If you accept that the national championships aren't the be-all and end-all of selection - and they are not, and USFSA has stated as much - then no, Ross Miner did not get done dirty. This is his first time on the podium at nationals since 2013, where he won silver. And Miner promptly went to Worlds in 2013 and contributed to the U.S. not getting a third spot at the Olympics the next year by finishing 14th.

Or, to look at it another way, do you exclude Adam Rippon based on 10 seconds after he skated brilliantly last year and this year? The selection criteria allow USFSA to base Olympic team selection (and Worlds, and 4CC, etc.) on more than just the podium finish at nationals. And, if Adam and Jason had skated well, Ross would've been fourth and none of this would matter. Ross had one good skate out of all his competitions this fall. Adam had 10 seconds of a problem all year.

I never said to leave Adam off the olympics team, in fact I'm glad Adam is on the team. I would have kept Vincent on for the olympics, but given Ross World's. A silver medal at Nationals deserves a reward. Adam deserves to be on both teams based on BOW, but Vincent on the other hand does not. I can understand needing the quads for the LP portion of the team event and gaining the max points for a medal, so Vincent should be in the OG for that, but worlds has nothing to do with a team event. Ross earned a place at Worlds, and with Adam and Nathan being at worlds, earning the 3 spots for next year should still be possible.

 

[Skater Boy]

Per USFSA, nothing counted before 2017.

I am sorry as there are so many post so this may be a repeat but according to the USFA's guidelines Ross wasn't even no. 4 but nol 5. Jason Brown was ahead of him forget Adam Rippon. So the big issue how much is placing second at Nats to Adam's fourth versus Adam's two Grand Prix medals and Grand Prix Final results which Ross did not do as well in. Adam beat Ross and Jason most consistently over the last year and may be needed in the team event if Nathan can't or won't do both programs.

I feel so bad for Ross I call it bad luck, bad chemistry and rules that did not favor him. SOmehow Jason benefits also from this system and really him and Max looked to be out of it all together but with this rather convoluted system both are in the mix around Ross.

Ross had the skate of his life but the rules for the US are quite different. It is sad like a lot of sports one game, one skate, one shot, one round, one match, one race can make or break you. Look at Michelle Kwan one if not the most consistent skaters and two times it counted she lost out to teenage wonders. I wish there was a way of consoling Ross but this US championship was weird. Dance, well pairs was a coronation, the men's top skater because he has a chance for OGM was obvious, the judges seemed to be generous with Bradie but not so with others especially pcs.

I am happy for Chen, Zhou and Rippon the latter two should be thanking their lucky stars. I can live with Jason off the team. My mom and I agree he has a great personality and that gets him far with fans, judges but not having the quad or a solid triple axel he almost could be an American version of Liam Firus who has some beautiful skating.

Life is so unfair. I hope somehow something good happens to Ross especially. He had his Paul Wylie/ Rudy Galindo moment minus the world or Olympic medal. It was wonderful

My heart also goes out to Grant; I think he is a fine skater but somehow he and his fiancée are the forgotten ones. I wish him well with future and new endeavours.

a side note - Chen's Vera Wang costumes may be rather simplistic and you can see the Wang influence especially the freeskate - it is a nod to some of her evening gowns - good or bad. She is getting some press and he is getting some maybe reputation points - if it is VEra Wang it has to be good and thus he must be artistic and good. I don't see how the costumes really help either program. I wouldn't mind a track suit like his short lol or if I were toned his top in the long might be interesting.

 

[Tutto]

I hope Ross is proud of what he is achieved at Nats, it would be wonderful if he does even better at 4CC. Go Ross!

 

[jenaj]

The USFSA could have announced in advance that Adam (or Jason) had done enough to be on the team if he placed as high as fourth.

 

[Viiktoruu]

Hehe

Well, I definitely agree that he has a lot of work to do. The arm opening is a definite downside.

In general, PCS scores seem like a whole load of hogwash to me, and not just at Nationals. So, I definitely don't disagree with you there. Mainly they shouldn't be in a +/-.50 range across all categories. That is totally ridiculous. However, we may disagree on who deserves more or less.

For me, I really disagree about the moment where he stopped and then started again at a slower tempo. I think he created a memorable, emotionally full moment and totally changed the feeling in the room in a striking way.

Whether or not he succeeded, I could tell that there was detailed work in relation to performance, composition and intention. Hopefully he'll keep moving in that direction and improving; seems already more mature than last year. At the very least, I think he skates with an unpretentious open-heartedness.

I couldn't agree more with the bold sentence.

And yeah, I really don't see it yet - but I hope he works hard on his performance so that one day this open-heartedness explodes on the ice. What I, personally, expect from a Moulin Rouge program is at least a borderline cheesy overflow of emotion

But, in any case, my original post was a comparison of Zhou and Miner, whose performance I found to be really lacking in detail, depth, or memorable choreography. I thought it was buoyed only by his performance technique (which I find to be shallow) and the fact that he skated it cleanly. But I'll take it over a peptic ulcer or sucking on a rotten shallot! [emoji23] I didn't dislike Miner's skate when I was watching it, I just found it uninteresting artistically.

 

[sk811]

Damn what happened to Adam like I wanted him in the team so baaad but He’s 17th like what the hell happened