2018 US Championships Sr Men FS

[Heleng]

The USFSA could have announced in advance that Adam (or Jason) had done enough to be on the team if he placed as high as fourth.

This, or as Mark Mitchell indicated, that Ross needed to win in order to be on the team.

 

[Skater Boy]

Well I don't think they could isolate Ross they would have to include every other skater especially Grant, Timothy Jimmy et al I think we should feel sorry for Grant he isn't even on the 4cc team.

 

[Skater Boy]

Why doesn’t Jason Brown take from known technical coaches like Frank Carroll or Tom Z. full time? He could be untouchable if only he could master the 3Axel and quad jumps. Such a pity because his basic skating is so artistically gorgeous!

Jason needs more than some quads remember Patrick Chan can't compete and he is better pc wise than Jason. You need multiple quads and some hard ones Its the game and pcs go with tech difficulty right or wrong = look at Nathan's pcs at nats - he is like on top of the world with those scores at 18. I don't think many of us would say he is the king or even queen of artstry and pcs but such is life

 

[jenaj]

Well I don't think they could isolate Ross they would have to include every other skater especially Grant, Timothy Jimmy et al I think we should feel sorry for Grant he isn't even on the 4cc team.

Maybe they should have tiers of skaters as well as criteria.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Why doesn’t Jason Brown take from known technical coaches like Frank Carroll or Tom Z. full time? He could be untouchable if only he could master the 3Axel and quad jumps. Such a pity because his basic skating is so artistically gorgeous!

Jason does spend chunks of time with Frank Carroll in CA taking jumping tech with him, I don't think Frank would be a decent full time coach for him though, and Tom Z is definitely not a good fit.

He'll never leave Kori IMHO.

 

[moonvine]

Jason does spend chunks of time with Frank Carroll in CA taking jumping tech with him, I don't think Frank would be a decent full time coach for him though, and Tom Z is definitely not a good fit.

He'll never leave Kori IMHO.

Frank is dead to me. #jacketgate. I think he'd be awful for Jason.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Frank is dead to me. #jacketgate. I think he'd be awful for Jason.

Well, that's kind of rude, good thing it's not really up to anyone but Frank, Kori and Jason to make these decisions, Jason has been working with Frank for years (starting prior to 2014).

Also, I'm kind of sick of people picking on Frank. He's not the monster certain posters want to make him out to be.

 

[TCAngel18]

Jason does spend chunks of time with Frank Carroll in CA taking jumping tech with him, I don't think Frank would be a decent full time coach for him though, and Tom Z is definitely not a good fit.

He'll never leave Kori IMHO.

Not sure if is economically feasible, but some time with Mishin may help. At first I thought he wouldn’t take on a non-Russian, but he took on Kostner (if I am remembering correctly).

Also, I think his overwhelming choreography at times is a hindrance. He probably has to put a lot of his effort in just the sheer training it takes to hit those positions. Honestly, he could pull back 10 percent of it, and he would still receive the same scoring, but have more time to devote to upping the tech.

I think Rohene gives him so much to concentrate on during a program that it just gets to be TOO much, sometimes.

 

[Mrs. P]

Not sure if is economically feasible, but some time with Mishin may help. At first I thought he wouldn’t take on a non-Russian, but he took on Kostner (if I am remembering correctly).

Also, I think his overwhelming choreography at times is a hindrance. He probably has to put a lot of his effort in just the sheer training it takes to hit those positions. Honestly, he could pull back 10 percent of it, and he would still receive the same scoring, but have more time to devote to upping the tech.

I think Rohene gives him so much to concentrate on during a program that it just gets to be TOO much, sometimes.

It's proabably worth noting that four years ago he actually had repeated his Prince short program -- a lot of people had discovered him as a senior, but he had the program as a junior. This season he had two brand new programs that were both really challenging to do with triples, let alone a quad and two 3As (in the FS). I think Jason expects a lot out of himself, so he took it all on. They did modify the free skate at nationals, but I think he fall on the opening quad psyched him out.

I hope we'll see a better version of this free skate at 4CC. It's truly beautiful to watch in person and really highlights how much he improved in the overall quality of skating.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

This, or as Mark Mitchell indicated, that Ross needed to win in order to be on the team.

The thing is, it's not about Ross having needed to win. If somehow, two of Rippon/Brown/Zhou were in the same boat as Max... as in way back around 9th or worse... he could have maybe made the team. If the other guys got injured or were unable to compete later on, Ross could be an alternate.

There would be no reason for US Figure skating to have flat out said Ross had no chance without winning, when a number of variables/scenarios potentially could have enabled him be on the Olympic team.

 

[Mrs. P]

The thing is, it's not about Ross having needed to win. If somehow, two of Rippon/Brown/Zhou were in the same boat as Max... as in way back around 9th or worse... he could have maybe made the team. If the other guys got injured or were unable to compete later on, Ross could be an alternate.

There would be no reason for US Figure skating to have flat out said Ross had no chance without winning, when a number of variables/scenarios potentially could have enabled him be on the Olympic team.

I think that's the problem right there. Nobody with USFS said ANYTHING like that -- i.e. multiple scenarios. They just used a generic statement that Nationals is that it's the top factor of consideration on this list of competitions.

Honestly, I was completely wrong -- they generally always used the top nationals results unless there was some extreme circumstance, even in this last Olympic period. So I was under the impression that that BOW was going to be something they use sparingly. What happened with men proved that wasn't quite the case.

 

[moonvine]

Jason needs more than some quads remember Patrick Chan can't compete and he is better pc wise than Jason. You need multiple quads and some hard ones Its the game and pcs go with tech difficulty right or wrong = look at Nathan's pcs at nats - he is like on top of the world with those scores at 18. I don't think many of us would say he is the king or even queen of artstry and pcs but such is life

I am dying to know if the upcoming changes (30 seconds taken off men's long, one jump requirement removed, and quad downgrade) will make him any more competitive. I can only hope.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I think that's the problem right there. Nobody with USFS said ANYTHING like that -- i.e. multiple scenarios. They just used a generic statement that Nationals is that it's the top factor of consideration on this list of competitions.

Honestly, I was completely wrong -- they generally always used the top nationals results unless there was some extreme circumstance, even in this last Olympic period. So I was under the impression that that BOW was going to be something they use sparingly. What happened with men proved that wasn't quite the case.

And that could be the issue... that historically Nationals was THE competition, and the past two Olympic cycles BOW has become more critical. Hopefully after Mirai and Ross competitors are aware that they need to turn up the heat in the season before and the season of, but also hopefully USFSA is more transparent in how they make their selection.

 

[reneerose]

Jason does spend chunks of time with Frank Carroll in CA taking jumping tech with him, I don't think Frank would be a decent full time coach for him though, and Tom Z is definitely not a good fit.

He'll never leave Kori IMHO.

Oh no...I hope he won't go down the Ricky Dornbush path

 

[Crossover]

Oh no...I hope he won't go down the Ricky Dornbush path

What about Ricky? I've not heard of his news for about 2 years. Is he retired?

 

[Mrs. P]

What about Ricky? I've not heard of his news for about 2 years. Is he retired?

He's not made an announcement, but he hasn't competed in a while and it sounds like he's been doing some coaching (he's gone with some of the skaters to regionals/sectionals) so I'm guessing he's done.

I think reneerose is referring to the fact that Ricky probably should have left Tammy and moved on to a different coach.

 

[Crossover]

He's not made an announcement, but he hasn't competed in a while and it sounds like he's been doing some coaching (he's gone with some of the skaters to regionals/sectionals) so I'm guessing he's done.

I think reneerose is referring to the fact that Ricky probably should have left Tammy and moved on to a different coach.

Thanks for the update on Ricky. I miss him and his Coldplay and Sherlock programs. Tammy is also Karen Chen's coach, so...I guess there would be no option but for him to switch to a coach for quads if he had stayed.

Back to the topic, since Jason was compared to Satoko in terms of their superb non-jump elements and their weakness in jumps, can Jason get a help from Kulik while not leaving Kori? Satoko was from time to time training under him to elevate her jump height during off seasons. She said it was helpful for her. Though his coaching doesn't change her jump technique entirely, but Jason needs some technical guide to be competitive.

 

[Mrs. P]

Thanks for the update on Ricky. I miss him and his Coldplay and Sherlock programs. Tammy is also Karen Chen's coach, so...I guess there would be no option but for him to switch to a coach for quads if he had stayed.

Back to the topic, since Jason was compared to Satoko in terms of their superb non-jump elements and their weakness in jumps, can Jason get a help from Kulik while not leaving Kori? Satoko was from time to time training under him to elevate her jump height during off seasons.

I expect we'll see Jason work with Frank again for as long as Frank is willing to do so. It sounds like Frank wants to retire from full-time coaching but it seems that Jason's willing to train closer to Frank's home in Palm Springs. I think Kulik is a good idea though.

That said, I'm not sure if Satoko and Jason are perfect comparisons as far as jumps. Jason does have decent height and ice coverage and he gets good +GOE on them

Some examples this season:
3F at Lombardia Trophy (+1.40 GOE)
3A at Lombardia Trophy (+2.00 GOE)
3Z from Skate Canada SP (+1.60 GOE)
3A-3T from Skate Canada FS (+1.29 GOE)
3A from GPF SP (+1.43 GOE)

That's not to say he doesn't have work to do to improve, but I don't think he has a problem getting height/ice coverage. His main problem seems to be the timing on the takeoff of both jumps. Watching him in the arena, I could actually tell in real time whether he was going to land the jump of if there were problems. Namely when he doesn't have the snap take-off he kind of hesitates and then there are issues. That to me is more an issue of confidence and a mental thing, not his physical ability to do the jump.

I mentioned this several times (and I apologize for sounding like a broken record), but he looked fine in the morning FS warm-up. He wasn't missing anything at all. Here's a video of one of the 3As from that warm-up (the same jumping pass he missed in the FS later that day. ). https://www.dropbox.com/s/p8bt6emn8qvippv/Video Jan 06, 10 44 33 AM.mov?dl=0

 

[Ares]

The USFSA could have announced in advance that Adam (or Jason) had done enough to be on the team if he placed as high as fourth.

O really ... I think it is conceivable that one of them would be left off the team anyway even if this BOW blah bla blah if let's say the placement at Nationals would be
1.Nathan 2. Vincent 3. Adam 4. Jason.

 

[demarinis5]

Interview with Ross in Boston.

https://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news...Miner-Shocked-by-Olympics-Snub-468535473.html