3A-3T vs 3Lz-3Lo

[cohen-esque]

Wakaba’s competitive attempt (via ionna in her fanfest): http://68.media.tumblr.com/ecd30d00b9179b12974a717687986be6/tumblr_nw0t0qHMrp1qfbp2ao1_400.gif

She gets unusually good distance and flow for a +3Lo, but I think she stopped because she was injured. It also didn’t noticeably raise her scores any when she landed it.

 

[chopinskate]

Higuchi's looks better than Zagitova's to me, but I'd have to slow it down to be sure. Her -3Lo does get better flow/height/distance, and her 3Lz technique is usually beyond reproach. Which competition is this?

 

[cohen-esque]

Which competition is this?

2015 JGP Croatia, I believe. She landed it in her other JGP that season as well, IRC.

 

[Shayuki]

Uh, this makes no sense. It's obvious that 3A-3T is more difficult. Only one person has done that to date, right? As for the 3Lz-3Lo... All sorts of random Russian ladies do this in competitions.

Wakaba’s competitive attempt (via ionna in her fanfest): http://68.media.tumblr.com/ecd30d00b9179b12974a717687986be6/tumblr_nw0t0qHMrp1qfbp2ao1_400.gif

She gets unusually good distance and flow for a +3Lo, but I think she stopped because she was injured. It also didn’t noticeably raise her scores any when she landed it.

It only increases scores significantly if the program also includes a 3A or a quad. Otherwise, it's just a 1 point increase in BV, with likely lower GOE(-3Lo is tougher to get good flow/exit on).

 

[Ares]

Per the original question, definitely 3A-3T. 3Lz-3Lo a lot of ladies can do, few if any can do 3A-3T. As for men, more do 3A-3T than 3Lz-3T--true, but they could easily do 3Lz-3Lo too if they trained it but since they have quads, the value of doing a loop combination is nonexistent.

A lot? Isn't that an exaggeration? It is still very rare internationally. But I agree that 3A-3T is more difficult by default as it has 3A in it, at least for ladies.

 

[largeman]

Wakaba Higuchi:
https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/s...-combination&p=2065991&viewfull=1#post2065991


For a list of all 3Lz+3Lo's done by ladies in the CoP era, go to http://fses.sakuraweb.com/ and do a search (enter 3Lz+3Lo in the "ELEMENTS" field)

(special thanks to champs)

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Well, for one it's for sure the hardest 3-3, no question. For another, I think only Alexander Abt has ever attempted it in competition.

Petr Gumennik

 

[skatenewbie]

Internationally 7 ladies done it cleanly

Miki Ando
Irina Slutskaya
Adelina Sotnikova
Yun Aoki
Wakaba Higuchi
Alina Zagitova
Alexandra Trusova

Few others have done it in practice. Like japanese and russian ladies.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

At Russian events:
Gubanova
Sinitsyna
Shcherbakova
Kostornaya

 

[cheerio2]

I think one reason more ladies haven't done 3Lz-3Lo is just the lack of incentive pointswise. You can do two -3T combos instead for minimal point loss, or if you really don't want to repeat the 3T, you can tack the 3Lo onto an easier jump like a flip or a sal. If a 3Lz-3Lo got the same amount of points as a 3A-3T, then I think more women would be doing it.

 

[yume]

I think one reason more ladies haven't done 3Lz-3Lo is just the lack of incentive pointswise. You can do two -3T combos instead for minimal point loss, or if you really don't want to repeat the 3T, you can tack the 3Lo onto an easier jump like a flip or a sal.

Even the 3F-3lo is a rare combo. Only Mao, Trusova, Yura Matsuda and maybe Miki Ando have done it cleanly for what i remember.

 

[yume]

3lo combos by Liza Nugumanova https://www.instagram.com/p/BiHznEljAlZ/
2A-3lo, 3S-3lo, 3T-3lo, 3lo-3lo, 3F-3lo, 3lz-3lo.
Seems like with a solid 3lo technique
it's possible to put a 3lo at the back of everything.

 

[chopinskate]

Wakaba Higuchi:
https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/s...-combination&p=2065991&viewfull=1#post2065991

Can she bring it back? I think that might be the best execution of that element by a lady?

 

[cheerio2]

Even the 3F-3lo is a rare combo. Only Mao, Trusova, Yura Matsuda and maybe Miki Ando have done it cleanly for what i remember.

Interesting. Seems like all -3lo combos are really hard.

 

[JSM]

They are, and they are judged more harshly than -3T combos.

If -3Lo combos were given the points they deserve (rather than just adding base values together for a combination), I think we'd see more of them in mens and ladies. But why bother when you can get the same amount of points doing an easier combination? A loop is worth the same if it's the first jump or the last jump, which is a shame.

 

[Izabela]

Wakaba Higuchi:
https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/s...-combination&p=2065991&viewfull=1#post2065991


For a list of all 3Lz+3Lo's done by ladies in the CoP era, go to http://fses.sakuraweb.com/ and do a search (enter 3Lz+3Lo in the "ELEMENTS" field)

(special thanks to champs)

Thanks largeman! That was a really great flow going into her +3Lo and the height she still could get on it is equally beautiful. I mentioned in her FF that if she has a jump layout that includes a solo 3A, a 3Lz-3Lo, and possibly a 3F, she would be really highly competitive. But this combo is really an injury prone one if done with this technique and probably why they will not bring it back (still crossing my fingers).

 

[Yatagarasu]

Interesting. Seems like all -3lo combos are really hard.

They're horrid on the hips. I know they bring points but I am not surprised that athletes avoid them.

 

[chopinskate]

Well, this thread tells me I should be even more excited for Higuchi next season than I currently am.

 

[yume]

Wakaba Higuchi:
https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/s...-combination&p=2065991&viewfull=1#post2065991


For a list of all 3Lz+3Lo's done by ladies in the CoP era, go to http://fses.sakuraweb.com/ and do a search (enter 3Lz+3Lo in the "ELEMENTS" field)

(special thanks to champs)

This is an amazing site. So 13 girls attempted the combo.

 

[largeman]

3lo combos by Liza Nugumanova https://www.instagram.com/p/BiHznEljAlZ/
2A-3lo, 3S-3lo, 3T-3lo, 3lo-3lo, 3F-3lo, 3lz-3lo.
Seems like with a solid 3lo technique
it's possible to put a 3lo at the back of everything.

Also, we forgot about these: https://www.instagram.com/p/BffbeGPg0Nx/