Making a World Record: Hanyu's Long Program

[jinabee]

According to NBC commentator https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93X5tSUta3w, Yuzu's 4T is a textbook quad jump especially in the second half, but one judge gave him GOE+1. I just wonder if the judge have a dim eyesight in the competition?

nnnnnggggggghhhh let's not go there.

 

[Perfume]

According to NBC commentator https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93X5tSUta3w, Yuzu's 4T is a textbook quad jump especially in the second half, but one judge gave him GOE+1. I just wonder if the judge have a dim eyesight in the competition?

If Hanyu got +1 for that, several other men in the same group should get 0 for their quads.

 

[andromache]

According to NBC commentator https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93X5tSUta3w, Yuzu's 4T is a textbook quad jump especially in the second half, but one judge gave him GOE+1. I just wonder if the judge have a dim eyesight in the competition?

If judging elements was an objective science, then we wouldn't need judges - just one scorer or even a computer scorer. But judges have different opinions and score things differently, and the balance between the different opinions makes it all work out okay, score-wise.

 

[Camillo]

If judging elements was an objective science, then we wouldn't need judges - just one scorer or even a computer scorer. But judges have different opinions and score things differently, and the balance between the different opinions makes it all work out okay, score-wise.

That's right, but judges still can't give +1 or 0 for a fallen jump, two-footed jump, jump with s/o and t/d with both hands unless they crave for a scandal So there are some limits for how different you opinion (as a judge) may be comparing with the 'corridor' of scores.

 

[gkelly]

I'm curious though, why is hydroblade classified as a spiral? What are the defining traits of a spiral?

Originally a spiral was a single edge held long enough to start to spiral in, regardless of position.

In modern skating, a spiral is a glide on an edge with the free foot at or above hip height.

In theory, I suppose that could be achieved by lowering the hips down to foot level rather than by raising the foot to hip level.

But mainly I think they're probably calling it a spiral out of analogy with the pairs death spiral, where the lady takes a similar position.

 

[karne]

So I've finally had a moment to sit down and watch this. First, absolutely outstanding effort from the creator of the video. To go through and label every movement is beyond hard.

Some thoughts:

- I especially liked the labelling of the features on the spins. That is great work, really educational.

- I did think a couple of the movements labelled "chasses" were not really chasses, but for lack of a better word that's close enough. And it's better to keep it a little simpler in a video like this where some of the audience aren't fully up to speed on tech terms.

- In the StSq, I noticed all the various turns and steps were labelled but the clusters weren't, and also body movement was not clearly pointed out, though discussed in the features at the end. That's a minor detail. The body movement probably isn't necessary to label, but it could be cool to have a little bit pop up when a cluster is attempted. I frickin hate trying to count turns, steps and rotations (there's a reason TPs usually split that job!) so hats off for actually managing to do it for this.

- Where the video opens itself to accusations of bias is when the GOE bullet points are highlighted. Now, I know what the author of the video is trying to achieve here, and I fully appreciate that. But some of those bullet points are subjective (I found myself disagreeing with a few of them) and can be swayed by bias. We're all human! We're all biased! And that's okay! But...I don't think it helped a certain subset of the internet that is somehow convinced he was underscored and use the video as proof. I'm sure that's not the intention of the creator, just an unintentional consequence.

Overall, I found the video rather outstanding. To have taken the time and effort to break down a program like that is incredible! If the author was so inclined, I'd be quite eager to watch their analysis of other skaters if they wanted to make those. A few little tweaks and they could be really quite a fun discussion piece for the off-season.

I shudder to think how many hours went into that. The things we do for love, eh*?






* says the person who gets up at stupid o'clock to watch skating all the time.

 

[Perfume]

I like the video. Those turns were so difficult and packed to add. I hope they will show the moves better with the slow motion version.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I like the video. Those turns were so difficult and packed to add. I hope they will show the moves better with the slow motion version.

On YouTube there's an option in the bottom right of the video frame to slow a video down to 0.5 and 0.25 speed, so you can watch this one in slow motion to see the labelled moves better.

 

[PomeloPooh]

Originally a spiral was a single edge held long enough to start to spiral in, regardless of position.

In modern skating, a spiral is a glide on an edge with the free foot at or above hip height.

In theory, I suppose that could be achieved by lowering the hips down to foot level rather than by raising the foot to hip level.

But mainly I think they're probably calling it a spiral out of analogy with the pairs death spiral, where the lady takes a similar position.

Ah, I see. Thank you for explaining!

 

[Mathman]

Originally a spiral was a single edge held long enough to start to spiral in, regardless of position.

In modern skating, a spiral is a glide on an edge with the free foot at or above hip height.

Isn't a spread eagle a spiral?

 

[gkelly]

Gliding moves in positions other than free foot at/above hip height are usually referred to as "field moves."

Back in the early 2000s, before IJS but after the well-balanced program elements were beginning to become requirements, men were supposed to do a field moves sequence in the free skate in addition to a step sequence. Women were expected to do one step sequence and one spiral sequence, same as the short program requirements at the time.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Isn't a spread eagle a spiral?

I remember when I first stated working with figure skating coaches and making friends that figure skate I thought a spiral was a spin :

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Isn't a spread eagle a spiral?

I'm not sure... I always thought spirals usually referred to a prolonged, curved glide. I guess a spread eagle would fall into that description, even if it's on two feet. To me, spiral referred to the pattern that these things usually make. If I think back to Brian Boitano's outside spread eagle or Jason Brown/Hanyu's hydroblading, those seem to fit that description.

Weirdly, in the case of death spirals, I never knew if it was referring to the position of the woman, but assumed it was referring to the pattern of the man's foot doing a "spiral" tracing as he went into the pivot.

 

[gkelly]

Here's a definition of the spiral step sequence from the 2008 US Figure Skating rulebook:

Consists primarily of spirals, progressing in bold curves. The pattern may vary. . . . Pushes in order to gain speed are permitted. Connecting steps, including spread eagles and two-footed movements with one leg extended and the other bent (Ina Bauer), turns and small jumps of not more than one-half revolution are permitted at any point in the sequence. Except during such pushes, steps, turns and small jumps, the competitor must be primarily in a spiral position, that is with the free leg (including knee and foot) higher than the hip level and each spiral position must be maintained for at least three seconds hold. Spiral positions are classified according to the skating leg (right, left), edge (outside, inside), direction (forward, backward) and the position of the free leg (backward, forward, sideways)....

According to that language, spread eagles and Ina Bauers are considered as connecting steps within a spiral sequence, not as spirals themselves.

I've never heard them referred to as spirals in any official context.

Unofficially, well, fans and also practitioners might have their own ways of referring to moves that might vary between different communities, especially pre-Internet.

And sometimes the official definitions of moves change -- for example, jump sequences -- especially with IJS when meeting the definition of a name can make a significant difference in what base value an element receives.

 

[andromache]

I remember when I first stated working with figure skating coaches and making friends that figure skate I thought a spiral was a spin :

This reminds me of how confused I was by hearing about flip jumps.

 

[Perfume]

This reminds me of how confused I was by hearing about flip jumps.

Or the 3 turn. The first time I heard it I was very confused as well. Figure skating has some weird terms in English.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

This reminds me of how confused I was by hearing about flip jumps.

The worst thing about it is I was a Sasha fan prior to my enlightenment

 

[gkelly]

Or the 3 turn. The first time I heard it I was very confused as well. Figure skating has some weird terms in English.

It's called 3 in French as well. What about other languages?

It looks like a 3. So it's not very weird to call it that. Not any weirder than calling two circles joined together an 8.

 

[Perfume]

It's called 3 in French as well. What about other languages?

It looks like a 3. So it's not very weird to call it that. Not any weirder than calling two circles joined together an 8.

Actually my first thought was: "They turn 3 times?" Ha ha

 

[gkelly]

Yeah, that can get confusing.

But there is a good reason for the name.


I'm reminded, once in the early internet days I was talking about a basic combination spin: camel, sit, back sit, back scratch. Someone posted in response "That sounds like something you'd see in an Arabian market."