The Most Hyped Skater

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I'm talking about the hype right NOW. Yes, Cohen was hyped a lot back in the day but it's died down somewhat (IMO). Now it's Kimmie's turn. And of course, the hoopla about Kwan. JMO. BTW I agree with your last paragraph.

Red Dog - I think you are talking about Forum Gushing.

If Sasha is working on her quad again, Michelle is praciticing a 3x3x2, then that's just rumors and fan gushing along with negative replies. I don't see the hoopla.

Joe

 

[R.D.]

Red Dog - I think you are talking about Forum Gushing.

How many articles have there been out there that showcase Kimmie? How many of them have been posted here? At least three. Article after article keeps saying that KM is "one to watch". Even U.S.F.S. seems bent on promoting her to get her out there. ESPN invited her to go to Worlds because she couldn't skate there. (They so didn't have to do that.) The list goes on.

I don't see a lot of forum gushing over Kimmie. People are proclaiming her the next big one, but I don't equate that to gushing. Gushing is more like "she is SO good, I LOVE her to death." I don't see much of that for Kimmie but I sure as heck see it a lot for Cohen, "Bebe" and especially Kwan. And as for the non-Americans, Irina gets her fair share of gushing as well (although not here).

JMO.

 

[R.D.]

Statistics

Kwan leads this poll right now. Why am I not shocked?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Kwan leads this poll right now. Why am I not shocked?

It should be higher! There are many more than 13 who do not speak well of Kwan in any capacity. Kwanfans like Sasha and few would wish her badly. Not so with other fans.

Joe

 

[R.D.]

There are many more than 13 who do not speak well of Kwan in any capacity. Kwanfans like Sasha and few would wish her badly. Not so with other fans.

This is where we're really going to disagree...

First, it is true that this is only a sample, and far more people will have similar thoughts.
But...

1)IMO you don't have to not like Kwan to vote for her. It's the "most hyped skater", not the "worst skater" or "which skater do you hate the most". (BTW, same thing with Sasha or Kimmie- I hardly think that the people who voted for them don't like them. I voted for Kimmie, does that mean I hate her?) Why do I see an underlying motive here? :scratch:

2) ITD (disagree) with your statement. There ARE some Sasha fans out there who also like Kwan (and vice versa, as you didn't hesitate one moment to point that out), and there are fans who like several skaters. There are also many Kwan fans who can't stand Sasha (and the opposite is true as well, to be fair). This is my impression after visiting a lot of skating boards over four years. And, of course, all you really get is the opinions of a vocal few. About 80%-90% of members hardly ever post.


JMO. Your mileage will vary.

 

[R.D.]

Also- by your comment it sounds as if you trying to say that Kwan fans are the only kind-hearted skating fans out there. (I could be wrong, but that's the impression I get). Now, what about all the general skating fans out there who don't resort to bashing and put-downs? The Sasha fans who don't participate in Kwan-bashing or bashing of any other skater? The Kwan fans who bash Irina, Sasha and/or other skaters to no end? (Of course we could go on and on, but to make this post as short as possible, I'll end it here).

There are good and bad apples in every package. Not all of one is good, or bad for that matter. I try to keep that in mind. JMHO, of course. I know people will disagree with me, but that's OK. That's what these forums are all about.

 

[Mathman]

If "hype" refers to excessive or unearned praise, it is hard for me to see how Michelle comes into the picture at all.

If you say, "I think Michelle is the greatest U.S. skater ever! -- Go Michelle!!" then you can defend your position by pointing to her 9 U.S. championships, while still acknowledging that others will have differing opinions.

Conversely, if the best you can say about your fave is to brag about what he or she is going to do at some time in the future, then you must be prepared to face critics who say, let's wait and see.

JMO.

Mathman

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Hype is as Mathman said. It's over exposed publicity. that is the definition and to continue this conversation about gushing is fruitless. Make a new thread about Who is the Most Gushed in the Forums?

Joe

 

[R.D.]

If "hype" refers to excessive or unearned praise, it is hard for me to see how Michelle comes into the picture at all.

I agree with the "unearned" part but not the "excessive" part. JMO.

If you say, "I think Michelle is the greatest U.S. skater ever! -- Go Michelle!!" then you can defend your position by pointing to her 9 U.S. championships, while still acknowledging that others will have differing opinions.

I suppose you could, but of course, different people have different favorites. I hardly would think that the reason one would like MK is because she's won 9 US championships. One might respect her for that, but they don't have to like her. I would think they like her because they are enthralled by her SKATING. JMO- I could be wrong.

Conversely, if the best you can say about your fave is to brag about what he or she is going to do at some time in the future, then you must be prepared to face critics who say, let's wait and see.

Yes, this is true as well. But once again, one is most likely to be enthralled by the SKATING of said skater in order for her to be their fave. The talk of the future is just blabbering due to excitement and anticipation that the favorite is going to do well and blow everyone away. JMO.

Hype is as Mathman said. It's over exposed publicity. that is the definition and to continue this conversation about gushing is fruitless. Make a new thread about Who is the Most Gushed in the Forums?

And, with this there are differing opinions as well. I happen to think that MK gets a whole lot of publicity. Doesn't mean she doesn't deserve it but there you have it; she does. Cohen also gets a lot of publicity. Does she deserve it? Depends on who you talk to. And now, we have Kimmie. Does she deserve all the publicity she's getting?

With MK, you could argue her record. With Kimmie, you can argue that she did a 3A in competition at Nationals. Not everyone does that. With Sasha- hmm. I'm not so sure here. I guess now that she has two World silver medals you could argue that, but before I really do think it was a bunch of hoopla over nothing. Oh yeah, her "talent". Of course it means absolutely nothing unless you put it to use. JMO, of course.

I think by asking who is gushed about the most, you will get similar answers. IMO- of the ladies (here, anyway) it's Kwan, then Liang, and then it's pretty even from there. Cohen has her fair share of gushers as well. Slutskaya has a few also.

A variation of this topic could be, "Of The Skaters Who Are Hyped The Most, Who Most Deserves It?"

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

and, with this there are differing opinions as well. I happen to think that MK gets a whole lot of publicity. Doesn't mean she doesn't deserve it but there you havit; she does. Cohen also gets a lot of publicity. Does she deserve it?

A variation of this topic could be, "Of The Skaters Who Are Hyped The Most, Who Most Deserves It?"

Red Dog - I still contend you are discussing fan gushing and not hype. I have no objecting your discussing fan gushing and if you start a new topic on that subject, I'll contribute to it.

But about this whole lot of publicity MK gets that you bring up. Could you duplicate an example of it here? Why don't you bring these items into the forum? Her fans would love to read it. You do bring various items about Sasha and we learn more about her than MK, and we are grateful that you bring us news of Sasha.

For your clarification on 'hype' :

When a new film is about to be released such as The War of the Worlds, one will see Tom Cruise all over the networks including Letterman and Oprah. Cruise will make personal appearances (the producers insist that he plug the picture). That is what hype is all about. BTW, I don't believe Cruise is happy doing this but he is paid to do it for the sake of the movie profits.

(When a newspaper produces a human interest story on Kimmie as the next best thing in figure skating, I would call that hype. That story could be reaching millions of people. When someone in a forum is praising Kimmie's 3A I would call that fan gushing and it will reach no more than a few thousand, if that. I don't find anything wrong with either of these two entities, but you seem to disdain them.)

Red Dog - Do you now see the difference between hype and fan gushing and that they are completely different entities.

Joe

 

[Shanti]

At least Russian skaters are interviewed regularly. We've had several in this Forum.

Joe

Only if you mean Plushenko and Yagudin. Apart from them, there're occasional interviews with Petrova/Tikhonov in St.Petersburg local papers and Averbukh's interviews appear to promote his skating show. That's it. I don't remember the last time I read any interview with TT/MM, NavKos to say nothing of less renown skaters (of course I'm talking about mainstream media, not the specialized figure skating magazine). Slutskaya was admired for a few days after the Worlds Championship and then "forgotten".
As far as I've noticed right now in Russia only Plushenko is hyped.

 

[Tiana]

Slutskaya was admired for a few days after the Worlds Championship and then "forgotten".

Hi, Shanti. I can't agree with you, I can give at least 5 links where Irina mentioned after the Worlds.

 

[Shanti]

Hi, Shanti. I can't agree with you, I can give at least 5 links where Irina mentioned after the Worlds.

Welcome to the board, Tiana!

I wasn't speaking so literally, maybe not "few days", just "few weeks" after the "Worlds fuss". I just meant she (unlike Plushenko) doesn't get much media attention during the off-season.

 

[Tiana]

Welcome to the board, Tiana!

Thanks Shanti

I wasn't speaking so literally, maybe not "few days", just "few weeks" after the "Worlds fuss". I just meant she (unlike Plushenko) doesn't get much media attention during the off-season.

Yeah I agree that she doesn't get so much media attention as Plushenko but speaking about this summer she all time spent in Novogorsk and was trying to avoid any attention.
And about links (it took about 5 minutes of my time ):
http://www.sport-express.ru/art.shtml?108294
http://www.sem40.ru/rest/rumour/15408/
http://www.kp.ru/daily/23510/39852/
http://www.kuban.kp.ru/daily/sport/doc65010/
http://yaroslavl.rfn.ru/rnews.html?id=14211&cid=7
http://www.kp.ru/daily/23552/42623/

 

[Shanti]

Thank you so much for the links!

 

[R.D.]

Red Dog - I still contend you are discussing fan gushing and not hype. I have no objecting your discussing fan gushing and if you start a new topic on that subject, I'll contribute to it.

I know the difference! Hype is generated by the press and either indirectly or directly by the association (USFS). It tends to reach the "general public" (non-skating fans and Olympic fans). Fan gushing (or in this context can we even call it that?) is limited to groups of people, and usually turns up in online public forums, like this one.

The starting a new topic about fan gushing is not a bad idea, actually. I'll get started on that, when I have some time.

But about this whole lot of publicity MK gets that you bring up. Could you duplicate an example of it here? Why don't you bring these items into the forum? Her fans would love to read it. You do bring various items about Sasha and we learn more about her than MK, and we are grateful that you bring us news of Sasha.

If you have a look here, you will see that even when Kwan wasn't a contender (in the case of 2005 worlds), she still got a huge amount of press. This is more about publicity and not so much about hype. But for that all we have to do is wait a few months.

http://www.heatherw.com/mk/article.htm

It's natural that people know more about Cohen because she has an online journal and website with resources. Kwan is the type to lay low- she doesn't even have an official website when far less popular skaters have one. (And people, this is NOT a request or a complaint! Just an observation.)

(When a newspaper produces a human interest story on Kimmie as the next best thing in figure skating, I would call that hype. That story could be reaching millions of people. When someone in a forum is praising Kimmie's 3A I would call that fan gushing and it will reach no more than a few thousand, if that. I don't find anything wrong with either of these two entities, but you seem to disdain them.)

And I agree. But I wasn't referring to forum posts. I don't think you get this. I've seen many articles that say Kimmie is the next "big thing" in skating. There used to be a lot about Cohen but it's dying down now (IMO). And of course Kwan will always be the media darling and (here's where I will go into the "fan gushing" topic) the sentimental favorite.

BTW, I consider articles featured on the USFS website to be hype, and not fan commentary. I think that's self-explanatory.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

There will be much publicity about Kwan very soon as the new season begins as well as Sasha who is also a very popular skater in the US and abroad. We will see Citizen watches ads at many of these competitions. Nothing wrong with that. Unsolicited hype doesn't bother me as much as it does other posters.

Joe

 

[R.D.]

There will be much publicity about Kwan very soon as the new season begins as well as Sasha who is also a very popular skater in the US and abroad. We will see Citizen watches ads at many of these competitions. Nothing wrong with that. Unsolicited hype doesn't bother me as much as it does other posters.

Joe

THIS IS IMO

Hype, and fan gushing for that matter, is fine in small doses. But when you are force-fed constant info about certain skaters (newspaper, TV, interview, etc.), and couple that with fan commentary, it gets to be a bit much at times.

 

[gezando]

THIS IS IMO

Hype, and fan gushing for that matter, is fine in small doses. But when you are force-fed constant info about certain skaters (newspaper, TV, interview, etc.), and couple that with fan commentary, it gets to be a bit much at times.

By your definition the most hype skater relative to her achievement is Cohen.

 

[R.D.]

By your definition the most hype skater relative to her achievement is Cohen

...and Emily Hughes, and Kimmie, and Katy Taylor, and...