2015 World Team Trophy Mens SP Apr 16

[Violet Bliss]

Kovtun's PPC didn't include the 2nd quad, it was supposed to be 4s-3t, 3lz, 3a. At least he managed to tack on the 3t to get a combo in.

Remembering and managing to get a combo in means he did not abandon his program completely as someone claimed.

I don't love him as a skater, but I don't get the virulent hate he's given - his head is obviously all over the place, but I think a lot of that has come from the way the federation has treated him - put on the senior scene halfway through a junior season and tasked with saving Russian Men after Voronov & Gachinski lost 3 spots at Worlds in 2012, then roundly criticized for not doing it in his 2nd ever senior event, then national champion but still having to try to win an Olympic spot again because the federation would happily let Plushenko waltz back in even though it was obvious he struggled to make it through 1 competition because of his injury, let alone 2 in a week, and then seeing Plushenko not be able to compete in singles in the Olympics, and so the spot that could have been his went to waste. He's a teenager, he needs so consistancy, not to be told that one day he's the best thing ever, and the next that he's nothing & a disgrace. Otherwise they'll just end up with another Gachinski, a skater that had potential but couldn't live up to it due to the pressure.

I appreciate an understanding and sympathetic view when it's so easy to be judgmental.

 

[solani]

Kovtun's PPC didn't include the 2nd quad, it was supposed to be 4s-3t, 3lz, 3a. At least he managed to tack on the 3t to get a combo in.

I don't love him as a skater, but I don't get the virulent hate he's given - his head is obviously all over the place, but I think a lot of that has come from the way the federation has treated him - put on the senior scene halfway through a junior season and tasked with saving Russian Men after Voronov & Gachinski lost 3 spots at Worlds in 2012, then roundly criticized for not doing it in his 2nd ever senior event, then national champion but still having to try to win an Olympic spot again because the federation would happily let Plushenko waltz back in even though it was obvious he struggled to make it through 1 competition because of his injury, let alone 2 in a week, and then seeing Plushenko not be able to compete in singles in the Olympics, and so the spot that could have been his went to waste. He's a teenager, he needs so consistancy, not to be told that one day he's the best thing ever, and the next that he's nothing & a disgrace. Otherwise they'll just end up with another Gachinski, a skater that had potential but couldn't live up to it due to the pressure.

:thumbsup:
Though when I first read "his had is all over the place" I thought it was meant literally ... and that shows how I'm used to reading negative things about Kovtun. I don't think he'll get the time he needs. Or he won't give himself the time he needs. Anyway, I hope I'm not right, as there's something promising about him.

 

[lauravvv]

Haven't watched the programs yet too... but Hanyu getting 96 points with a UR fall. Seriously, what in the ****.

Probably it is a bit too high, but his other elements warranted really high GOE - his 4T and axel were amazing, spins were really fast and centered, and footwork was very good as always. I know that many think that PCS should be lowered considerably for a performance with a fall, but I'd say, this is a program that deserves high PCS on itself, and when it is performed with such flow, speed and musicality, it deserves very high PCS indeed. He had another really small stumble on his spread eagle, though, but it didn't take away much.

Hanyu was mesmerizing, starting with his quad, which he tossed off so easily. He floated from that right into a huge 3a and into some of his low spins, all so incredibly synchronized with the music. On to the combo, then he fell on the second jump, got up and went right on with his intricate footwork. He is just so completely connected with his music!

This!

 

[SashaJuliaSpins]

Like Nam and Han, Jason seemed better than ever to me. I loved this performance even though I usually dislike this sort of music (and suspenders). It just gelled together, although was he behind music agsin?

Oh my, Jason was so cute I loved it so much! I could not stop smiling when I watched it! His split jump was so beautiful!: I know, am gushing! Can't help but like him!

 

[TMC]

Oh my, Jason was so cute I loved it so much! I could not stop smiling when I watched it! His split jump was so beautiful!: I know, am gushing! Can't help but like him!

That Russian split is really incredible. Especially in slow motion. Looks like he could stay up there and have a leisurely cup of tea if he wanted to

 

[OS]

Hanyu's mistake doesn't take away from the rest of his performance, and his 4T and 3A seamless transitioned with the delicate nuances of the music is a different class to the rest of the field. It is probably as close to a Patrick Chan program it is going to get and then some. 96 may be a bit high, but this is a field without Denis or Javier. He got some Japanese home bonus, plus OGM champion, now he got everything Patrick used to get, so if you didn't complain about Patrick then, you should complain about him now. It comes with the territory of being a reigning champion and leader of his field.

Honestly, has there been a better or more effortless 4T than Hanyu right now? That was a real beauty.

I love Han Yan's 3A, and thought it is interesting although he pretty much did the same jumping element as Hanyu, but the order of the elements and layout, first half second half really hurt his score. Han Yan has one of the best 3A I have ever seen, a real power wow monster, but it only got 10.79 vs Hanyu's 2nd half 3A 12.09 which again is understandable especially Hanyu went straight into a spread eagle change of edge (minor hiccup) so assume Han Yan did his 3A in the 2nd half, he would have scored +0.85 more but still not able to catch up.. hmm... need to improve transitions? I'd love HanYan be given something like a Patrick Chan's 4 seasons program, no more funny oddball quirky stuff. He deserve better. Please try Jeff Buttle.

As for Kovtun, not much to say. I have only ever criticized his over scoring in PCS and choreography. It seems the judges woke up from the Russian overhype and scored him accordingly in these past few competitions. Him winning the 2 early season GP series was the biggest fluke this season, next to Rika Hongo.

 

[xibsuarz]

That Russian split is really incredible. Especially in slow motion. Looks like he could stay up there and have a leisurely cup of tea if he wanted to

I could watch that Russian split on replay fo hours, it's a move I really like, looks powerful but fun. And Jason really makes it justice. :agree:

 

[OS]

OT. It is hilarious and eye opening watching all different team cheers and their real personality at the kiss and cry.
It made me realise Figure skating is not any better than those Band geeks from American pie, Glee club from high school musicals... what a bunch of cute jock nerds

Teenagers will be teenagers I guess. (even if they are warriors, princesses, phantoms, carmens on ice)

 

[Violet Bliss]

I agree with os that Hanyu's SP was somewhat reminiscent of Chan. I have not liked Hanyu's skating, finding it busy with poor posture, but this time I see elegance and power. Lovely program exquisitely skated.

In contrast, I really don't like Brown's program, as much as he is selling it.

Unlike os, I like Yan's SP very much, very different and off the track with big movements, complete with his trade marked big 3A. Well done, Han, after such a difficult season. Please keep the ease and excellence for the LP to end the season gloriously and with a big cheque.

 

[OS]

I agree with os that Hanyu's SP was somewhat reminiscent of Chan. I have not liked Hanyu's skating, finding it busy with poor posture, but this time I see elegance and power. Lovely program exquisitely skated.

In contrast, I really don't like Brown's program, as much as he is selling it.

Unlike os, I like Yan's SP very much, very different and off the track with big movements, complete with his trade marked big 3A. Well done, Han, after such a difficult season. Please keep the ease and excellence for the LP to end the season gloriously and with a big cheque.

I have to say though, Han's SP this round is the best I have ever seen him skated. He seems finally gelled with it if that makes sense. I did chuckle a little at the close up, he reminded me of my brother and his 3 weeks of facial hair (ie/not a lot going on). Jason got his own schtick, but I appreciate him a heck of alot after just watching Kovtun, their ice coverage, speed, transitions, choreography content is like night and day.

 

[gmyers]

Kovtun's PPC didn't include the 2nd quad, it was supposed to be 4s-3t, 3lz, 3a. At least he managed to tack on the 3t to get a combo in.

I don't love him as a skater, but I don't get the virulent hate he's given - his head is obviously all over the place, but I think a lot of that has come from the way the federation has treated him - put on the senior scene halfway through a junior season and tasked with saving Russian Men after Voronov & Gachinski lost 3 spots at Worlds in 2012, then roundly criticized for not doing it in his 2nd ever senior event, then national champion but still having to try to win an Olympic spot again because the federation would happily let Plushenko waltz back in even though it was obvious he struggled to make it through 1 competition because of his injury, let alone 2 in a week, and then seeing Plushenko not be able to compete in singles in the Olympics, and so the spot that could have been his went to waste. He's a teenager, he needs so consistancy, not to be told that one day he's the best thing ever, and the next that he's nothing & a disgrace. Otherwise they'll just end up with another Gachinski, a skater that had potential but couldn't live up to it due to the pressure.

Because who is kovtun? Why was he sent to worlds in 2013? Why didn't he face the same career destruction gachinski did when he bombed a worlds. Why does he get such special treatment. Where is his talent . Not jumps or artistry. Why was he even sent to euros in 2013? Why wasn't gachinski? Why did he outrageously win 2 Grand Prix? Why did he bomb 2015 worlds and again face no gachinski like negativity? Why can be be so horrible and never face a gachiski like consequence? Why did he beat voronov in 2015 Russian nationals?who is he? Why does he get such special treatment?

 

[Violet Bliss]

Because who is kovtun? Why was he sent to worlds in 2013? Why didn't he face the same career destruction gachinski did when he bombed a worlds. Why does he get such special treatment. Where is his talent . Not jumps or artistry. Why was he even sent to euros in 2013? Why wasn't gachinski? Why did he outrageously win 2 Grand Prix? Why did he bomb 2015 world and again face no gachinski like negativity? Why can be be so horrible and never face a gachis ki like consequence? Why did he beat voronov in 2015 Russian nationals?who is he? Why does he get such special treatment?

He is a young man doing a sport he is good at, good enough to be among the elite. All your questions indicate your angry perception of his favored treatments. They are not about him, his agenda, or "faults". He just trains and skates and tries his best.

 

[demarinis5]

I have only watched the top three so far. Great skating from Han and Jason but for me
Yuzu was in a class of his own today even with the fall, fabulous!

 

[gmyers]

He is a young man doing a sport he is good at, good enough to be among the elite. All your questions indicate your angry perception of his favored treatments. Then it's not about him, his agenda, or "faults". He just trains and skates and tries his best.

It's not a perception it's a reality. In 2013 Russian nationals he was fifth! Why was he sent to euros? Why wwasnt menshov or gachinski. He had gotten extreme special treatment and why? He's not better than other russian men. I mean in 2014 voronov and menshov beat him for euro medals and people still talk like he was robbed for sochi! His extreme special treatment in Russia has created kovtun was robbed for things he didn't get like the sochi Olympic spot. He's not plushenko. He's not even voronov or menshov.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Probably it is a bit too high, but his other elements warranted really high GOE - his 4T and axel were amazing, spins were really fast and centered, and footwork was very good as always. I know that many think that PCS should be lowered considerably for a performance with a fall, but I'd say, this is a program that deserves high PCS on itself, and when it is performed with such flow, speed and musicality, it deserves very high PCS indeed. He had another really small stumble on his spread eagle, though, but it didn't take away much. This!

Just saw the program, and yes it was beautifully executed. But there's ABSOLUTELY no way he (or any skater) should be getting 46.22 points of PCS for that -- certainly not 9.50's for execution. That's (I think) the second best PCS he's ever gotten for an SP (his personal best being 46.61 for a perfect SP at the Olympics).

Along with the fall, he had a stumble on his spread eagle coming out of the 3A, which wasn't reflected in skating skills or transitions. A small stumble is still a stumble.

It's a great program, but this should not be the standard for a 96 point program. And if not for the UR, this would have been about 97.5 points. For those who complained about Chan getting inflation, between Hanyu's SP scores at the last two Worlds and this World Team Trophy (which I get is a "fun" competition, but the scores still count), I can't agree with the scoring. And I'm a Hanyu fan, and it's the judges who give him the scores not him, but this scoring is absolute nonsense.

 

[Meoima]

^CanadianSkaterGuy: well we all know that WTT is not serious anyways. What's the point of getting season best in a competition like this? It doesn't mean anything. In the end even if they gave him 88 he would be in the lead and his actual score for his team is still 12.
I just don't take the scoring here that serious. It's a commercial event after all.

 

[MaxSwagg]

I think it's still acceptable to discuss the scoring even when only placements count. Since they're not actually adding together the scores, why don't they just give ordinals here anyway? Doesn't make sense to me but okay...

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Because who is kovtun? Why was he sent to worlds in 2013? Why didn't he face the same career destruction gachinski did when he bombed a worlds. Why does he get such special treatment. Where is his talent . Not jumps or artistry. Why was he even sent to euros in 2013? Why wasn't gachinski? Why did he outrageously win 2 Grand Prix? Why did he bomb 2015 worlds and again face no gachinski like negativity? Why can be be so horrible and never face a gachiski like consequence? Why did he beat voronov in 2015 Russian nationals?who is he? Why does he get such special treatment?

Assuming you're not being sarcastic....

Are you (and all other Kovtun haters) going to dwell on 2013 for how long? He was a junior essentially sent to Senior Worlds -- he was slated to do badly from the get-go and the Russian fed put a goldfish in a shark tank. Are you honestly criticizing him for not having a destructive career just because he couldn't get 2 Olympic spots which no other Russian man (other than Plu) would have gotten anyways?

Also, Kovtun is liked by the judges (a little too much... and Voronov isn't for some reason), but his federation doesn't give him a ton of special treatment -- he didn't even get to go to the Olympics -- when was the last time the reigning Russian champion didn't go to the subsequent Olympics? Hah, "special treatment" indeed.

Kovtun might be a brat, but he's been the only Russian to beat Plushenko since Yagudin, is a 2-time National champion, has medalled at all four GP events in his first two senior seasons including 2 wins (and not outrageous wins... he wasn't great, but he was still the best of the field in each and skated an excellent FS at TEB to win gold), was 4th at just his second Worlds (in what most would *legitimately* call his first "senior" season), and also came 2nd at Euros this year. Technically speaking -- he added a second 4T to his LP during his junior season, had a comparatively consistent 4S by the following season (and a 3-quad LP), and is one of the only men in the field to have attempted (and landed) 2 quads in his SP.

As for Gachinski, he has no notable results since his well-earned 2011 World bronze other than a 2012 Euro silver. He's never placed higher than 5th in ten Grand Prix appearances (compared to Kovtun who has 2 silvers and 2 golds in his four Grand Prix appearances). Gachinski's career destruction was his own doing. Kovtun bombed at 2013 Worlds and came back the next season on fire winning 2 GP silvers and Russian Nationals (but was jipped of going to the Olympics by Plu who was given the spot essentially on reputation - sorry, a "closed test skate" and without having to compete at Euros -- talk about special treatment! ). And this year, he won 2 GP golds and Russian Nationals again, and a Euros silver. Worlds was dicey, but he had no shot at a medal anyways given how Fernandez/Hanyu/Ten performed.

 

[dorispulaski]

They show the actual scores because the skaters can earn personal bests for them.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

^CanadianSkaterGuy: well we all know that WTT is not serious anyways. What's the point of getting season best in a competition like this? It doesn't mean anything. In the end even if they gave him 88 he would be in the lead and his actual score for his team is still 12.
I just don't take the scoring here that serious. It's a commercial event after all.

It's more the idea that a program like that can get 96 points, even in a fun event -- especially one where the scores still count towards personal best scores. I think I'd feel better about the egregious scoring if it didn't actually count for anything (and yeah, I know that his PB is already higher than this, but it's the principle of the scoring).

I still totally think Hanyu deserved to be in first, by a margin... but maybe 92-93 points... and certainly not with PCS that high.

Like, would people criticize if the judges gave him 10.00's, or just accept it because he would have come in 1st and picked up 12 points anyways?