Yuzuru Hanyu: 2014-15 Season

[Lys]

Boyang jin just jumped 4Lz in his SP in an event in China. He stepped out but it was full rotated. :shocked:
I wonder if this will makes Hanyu-san more adamant about 4Lo and/or 3 quads in his LP, or maybe thinking about putting 2 quads in his SP? :think:

While I think Boyang can (or will ) be one to watch in the future and for the next Olympics, I don't think Yuzuru needs to change his programs because of him.
Boyang may be putting in the jumps and the quads, but he's still quite far away from being a complete skater, in my opinion.

Just comparing Boyang now (this is one of his best performance, FP at JWC this year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI9gSgC6cG4), with Yuzuru at the same age (Nice 2012: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0bCvXHtzx4 ), I don't know about you, but I see some differences

 

[hamaguri]

Yup but
1) Yuzuru has much better technique and deep knee bend.
2) Yuzuru body has developed fully at least in frame. He might put more muscle but that's it.
3) Yuzuru doesn't practice it for the purpose of putting it in competition as we all know 4Lo3A will never get him 20.5 points. He only did it to impress the audience.
4) Yuzuru hasn't had intended to put 4Lo in competition yet. Even if he wants to put 4Lo in competition it will be a solo jump, not in combination so less risk.

Do you think in 2018 2 quads will be enough to win?
I’ve heard Ms. Okabe, international judge of Men told the necessity of 3 quad in 2018, which astonished me. I wonder how many kinds of quads will be needed in 2018 to win olympic title…

 

[gsyzf]

Do you think in 2018 2 quads will be enough to win?
I’ve heard Ms. Okabe, international judge of Men told the necessity of 3 quad in 2018, which astonished me. I wonder how many of quads will be needed in 2018 to win olympic title…

I think that as a competitor, you don't want to keep the same layout for four years. Your rivals can upgrade their layout and beat you. 2 quads in 2018 is a very risky strategy. You have to count on others making mistake and you being perfect to win. Top medal contenders would want to have at least 3 quads in LP by 2018.

 

[HanDomi]

I would say that 2 quads may be risky, but Yuzuru planned layout for this and next season will be enough ( 3 quads +2x 3A-3 combo) in 2018

 

[hamaguri]

While I think Boyang can (or will ) be one to watch in the future and for the next Olympics, I don't think Yuzuru needs to change his programs because of him.
Boyang may be putting in the jumps and the quads, but he's still quite far away from being a complete skater, in my opinion.

Just comparing Boyang now (this is one of his best performance, FP at JWC this year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI9gSgC6cG4), with Yuzuru at the same age (Nice 2012: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0bCvXHtzx4 ), I don't know about you, but I see some differences

]

Thank you! I don’t know Boyang is already 17 years old. Seeing his performance, I realized his tight knees… Their performance are different with each other in some respects..
Further, I cant count the number of times I watched yuzu’s Nice 2012. Haaa…

 

[Interspectator]

While I think Boyang can (or will ) be one to watch in the future and for the next Olympics, I don't think Yuzuru needs to change his programs because of him.
Boyang may be putting in the jumps and the quads, but he's still quite far away from being a complete skater, in my opinion.

Just comparing Boyang now (this is one of his best performance, FP at JWC this year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI9gSgC6cG4), with Yuzuru at the same age (Nice 2012: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0bCvXHtzx4 ), I don't know about you, but I see some differences

I took a look at the protocols for these 2 programs and Yuzu is actually a point ahead of Boyang in his TES as well.
91.99TES for Yuzu 90.81 TES for Boyang.
Of course, everyone noticed the difference in PCS.
The main difference, of course, is the the GOE's Yuzu racks up for his elements.
Yuzu got around 12 Points in GOE and Boyang got around 3.

Nevertheless, I was impressed by Boyang's abilities, and seeing him in Seniors next year is something I look forward to.

 

[Lys]

Thank you! I don’t know Boyang is already 17 years old. Seeing his performance, I realized his tight knees… Their performance are different with each other in some respects..
Further, I cant count the number of times I watched yuzu’s Nice 2012. Haaa…

He was born in October 1997, if I'm not mistaken
It still surprises me how young Yuzu was when he turned senior :shocked:
And ahahha I know, it may not be fair to Boyang to compare him (or any young skater) to Yuzu's Nice 2012

Anyway, I think Yuzu will have (at least? and if he stays healthy) 3 quads in his LP for next Olympics, but that's because it was his plan to start with and not because what other skaters may bring up

 

[xibsuarz]

Do you think in 2018 2 quads will be enough to win?
I’ve heard Ms. Okabe, international judge of Men told the necessity of 3 quad in 2018, which astonished me. I wonder how many of quads will be needed in 2018 to win olympic title…

At the rate that the men are pushing it, I wouldn't be surprised. But aside from the quads, the skater, IMO should be complete. I'd say 3 quads would be necessary if all the well rounded skaters have 3 quads in his programs. A skater with good skills across all the different aspects of skating with 2 quads will still win over somebody whose only weapon is a 3rd quad, I think. However, if someone with decent skills comes up with 3 quads, he can beat someone with 2 quads but better skills. Take Yuzu himself as example: at the 2013-2014 season, his skating skills, though good, were still behind Patrick's (of course that has changed, I think they kind of at the same level now). And although Yuzuru was behind in PCS, his monstruous programs allowed him to create a gap in TES so big that the difference in PCS could not cover it.

 

[gsyzf]

At the rate that the men are pushing it, I wouldn't be surprised. But aside from the quads, the skater, IMO should be complete. I'd say 3 quads would be necessary if all the well rounded skaters have 3 quads in his programs. A skater with good skills across all the different aspects of skating with 2 quads will still win over somebody whose only weapon is a 3rd quad, I think. However, if someone with decent skills comes up with 3 quads, he can beat someone with 2 quads but better skills. Take Yuzu himself as example: at the 2013-2014 season, his skating skills, though good, were still behind Patrick's (of course that has changed, I think they kind of at the same level now). And although Yuzuru was behind in PCS, his monstruous programs allowed him to create a gap in TES so big that the difference in PCS could not cover it.

The difference between the PCS of top skaters is not big. You would need to have sufficient TES to win. And PCS is a bit unpredictable. TES is more reliable.

 

[Meoima]

Do you think in 2018 2 quads will be enough to win?
I’ve heard Ms. Okabe, international judge of Men told the necessity of 3 quad in 2018, which astonished me. I wonder how many kinds of quads will be needed in 2018 to win olympic title…

3 quads is a must for Yuzuru at next Olympic I think. He knows that as well. So yes he should try to get use to it as soon as possible. But no need to try 4Lo and 4lz right way. His body is still healing.
He needs to rebuild his stamina first. And fix some of the technical issues.

 

[hamaguri]

Thank you guys some comments on quads in 2018.
I cannot imagine what will happen in 3 years... Anyway, landing multiple quads other than executing every complex element perfectly will be incredibly hard… The Men’s overall level of technical elements will be higher. Truly, he needs more stamina. Stay healthy, yuzu! :yay:

 

[arran]

I agree with you all. Seeing the development of young skaters nowadays, 3quads in LP and consistency is a must to win OWG 2018. And Hanyu-san's weapon are not only his monstrous jumps but also his skating skill and beatiful spins wich is a rare for skater with great jumping skill.
I really feel thankful Hanyu-san is now training under such a complete coaching team. I don't dare to imagine what Hanyu-san's knees and ankles would become if Plushenko accepted to coach him back then in 2012.

 

[Nemorml]

If 3 quads will be needed by 2018 then lord help us, the men's free skate might be even a bigger disaster than 2014.

I don't think Hanyu needs to worry about any younger skater from now, it's about Chan, Denis and Fernandez. I think he needs to worry more about himself actually, about his health and mind state. He will compete with the younger skaters eventually, and sorry, but I think Uno has a much brighter future if we talk about young skaters. What separates the top skaters and the no names is the PCS and we know PCS doesn't count only basic skating qualities and performance, it's about going up on the ranks and showing that you're a contender. Boyang needs to do that, and great peformances after another in the international stage is the key, Boyang can have as much quads as he wants but he needs some consistency in them or else he will never be a true contender, the guys with less tech will. BV is a virtual number, what counts is what you execute. You can have as much BV as you want but if you don't execute and, even so, if the judges doesn't grant you with the PCS, honey, you're out. Kevin Reynolds would be Olympic Champ from now if BV was the key. (Nothing against Kevin) and not Yuzuru, who 'built' his PCS during 2013-2014 season with doing clean shorts and a cleanish free at GPF, where it mattered. Or do you think Hanyu consistently receiving PCS on 40s at the short and PCS in 90s for the free was possible for him in 2012 or even at the beginning of 2013?
PCS is indeed unreliable, but this is true mostly for unkown skaters and what they should work on in order for it to become reliable. Once you achieve certain success PCS is your second money and nothing will take it from you, only yourself. An effective path would be: Have reasonable tech + perform relatively well several times and put your name out there. Have out of the world tech and don't do the second requirement is of no use, judges will drop you in the blink of an eye.

Of course, for the unkown guys with less tech (not too little!) if they also don't execute the 'fall' will be even bigger, but there's a higher chance of them do skate cleanish and build PCS. I see no reason for Boyang to be doing all those quads as a success plan from now, he's doing it probably because it's his only weapon and he obviously likes it, but he's also working a bit on presentation since last year which will serve him well.

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As good as Yuzuru's skating skills are by now, he doesn't get that much closer to the boards all the time and this is noticeable especially at the LP, this is an area that he can still improve and I have faith that he will.

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Is there a problem for Hanyu to skip that award ceremony or it doesn't matter much? I'm not familiar with this type of thing.

 

[Meoima]

^^ about getting close to the board, I think it shows that he has good control and good sense of dimension as you know getting close too close to the board means there is high chance of hitting the board (Aka Patrick, Gracie) or getting stuck on the board (Mirai Nagasu).
And even Yuzuru once hit the board (SP at WC 2013) so if anything I'd like to see him never get too close to the board at all. Yuzuru already has top notch skating skill and only behind Patrick and maybe Kozuka (Jeremy is too inconsistent to count), female skaters are in no contest at all for this as they use too many crossovers.
With Yuzuru, 2 crossovers and he's on the other side of the rink. Honestly who needs getting close to the board?

 

[Nemorml]

^^ about getting close to the board, I think it shows that he has good control and good sense of dimension as you know getting close too close to the board means there is high chance of hitting the board (Aka Patrick, Gracie) or getting stuck on the board (Mirai Nagasu).
And even Yuzuru once hit the board (SP at WC 2013) so if anything I'd like to see him never get too close to the board at all. Yuzuru already has top notch skating skill and only behind Patrick and maybe Kozuka (Jeremy is too inconsistent to count), female skaters are in no contest at all for this as they use too many crossovers.
With Yuzuru, 2 crossovers and he's on the other side of the rink. Honestly who needs getting close to the board?

Getting close to the boards and not hitting it is even more impressive. He gets close at SP and there's no problem for him, it's fantastic. I say this because I'd like to see the same type of skating skills display from him at his LPs, not that his display in his LP is not great, it just could be even greater. It's nice to always be motivated in improving basic skating don't matter how.

Mirai hit it probably because that USA nationals rink was awfully narrow. I was thinking about that regarding Boston Worls. It will be a nighmare for fast skaters if the rink will be as narrow as that one.

 

[Meoima]

Getting close to the boards and not hitting it is even more impressive. He gets close at SP and there's no problem for him, it's fantastic. I say this because I'd like to see the same type of skating skills display from him at his LPs, not that his display in his LP is not great, it just could be even greater. It's nice to always be motivated in improving basic skating don't matter how.
Mirai hit it probably because that USA nationals rink was awfully narrow. I was thinking about that regarding Boston Worls. It will be a nighmare for fast skaters if the rink will be as narrow as that one.

As great as Patrick's skating skill is, he has had some awful incidents with the board so even with best skating skill like Patrick it's hard to control it all the time. So I don't think he needs to get close to the board. And it also depends on the choreography.

About 3 quads, it seems a must. The judges are making it clear who land more quads among the top skater get the higher PCS.

About Boston World, has anyone has information about the rink location?

 

[Rissa]

Honestly who needs getting close to the board?

That's what I would like to ask. Why is it important to skate close to the boards? Is it about ice coverage or something?

I've always thought that skating close to the boards doesn't look attractive. Skaters look crowded or like they are running out of room. It's like a photo or a painting or even text, if you don't have margins it looks awkward and uncomfortable. So I've always appreciated that Yuzuru doesn't skate close to the boards and doesn't ruin the visual composition of his skating.

 

[gsyzf]

That's what I would like to ask. Why is it important to skate close to the boards? Is it about ice coverage or something?

I've always thought that skating close to the boards doesn't look attractive. Skaters look crowded or like they are running out of room. It's like a photo or a painting or even text, if you don't have margins it looks awkward and uncomfortable. So I've always appreciated that Yuzuru doesn't skate close to the boards and doesn't ruin the visual composition of his skating.

I wonder about this too. I always thought it's a personal choice if you want to skate close to the board. Visually speaking, it doesn't look very nice if you skate so close to the board.

 

[Meoima]

That's what I would like to ask. Why is it important to skate close to the boards? Is it about ice coverage or something?
I've always thought that skating close to the boards doesn't look attractive. Skaters look crowded or like they are running out of room. It's like a photo or a painting or even text, if you don't have margins it looks awkward and uncomfortable. So I've always appreciated that Yuzuru doesn't skate close to the boards and doesn't ruin the visual composition of his skating.

Yuzuru has great ice coverage and he doesn't need to skate too close to the board to show that. You can see from fancam and from all live reports that he skate faster and bigger than anyone at GPF and Shanghai WC.

In the LP he still lacks stamina and it was designed for 3 quads thus he needs to save more energy (as he has never been healthy this season). And it also depends on the rink size.

It's not just about visually speaking, but about the possibility of getting hit by the board. Patrick/Gracie hit the board and almost hit the board so many times it's not that good.

 

[Nemorml]

Definitely about ice coverage. His short is brilliant in this regard, free not as much. It's understandable since he saves energy for the jumps, but it would be nice to see him balance it a bit more and keep the level that he shows at the short.