Chan v. Hanyu: 2015-16

[Krunchii]

Ability wise I think Yuzuru is better but when it comes to the game of COP, earning points in spins is more about hitting the levels. Yuzuru and Patrick are not so different points wise when it comes to spins so the comparison is a bit moot. They last 2 head to head competition was Olympics and GPF 2013 and there's not a huge difference. All spins were level 3 and level 4 save for Yuzuru having one level 2 once.

Olympics
Yuzuru - 11.88 (SP) + 11.94 (LP) = 23.82
Patrick - 12.44 (SP) + 10.66 (LP) = 23.10

GPF 2013
Yuzuru - 11.42 (SP) + 10.71 (LP) = 22.13
Patrick - 12.63 (SP) + 11.25 (LP) = 23.88

 

[bibi1899]

I make some calculation regarding their spin for reference.

1. average GOE: (11-12,12-13,13-14)
Patrick：+0.88，+0.75，+0.84
Yuzu：+0.69，+0.68，+0.78 (14-15:+0.77)

2.average level in proportion: (11-12,12-13,13-14)

Patrick：11-12 season: Lv4-58％ Lv3-38% Lv1-4%
12-13 season: Lv4-58％ Lv3-42%
13-14 season: Lv4-63％ Lv3-33% Lv1-4%

Yuzu：11-12 season: Lv4-83％ Lv3-4% Lv2-13%
12-13 season: Lv4-75％ Lv3-13% Lv2-4% Lv1-4%
13-14 season: Lv4-82％ Lv3-15% Lv1-3%
(14-15 season: Lv4-79％ Lv3-17% Lv2-4% )

According the statics above, Patrick has better +GOE while Yuzu has better spin level.
However, the gap between their GOE is less than 0.2 but he gap between level 3 and level 4 is normally 0.4.
So, in most cases, Yuzu will get better spin scores than Patrick, but the gap is very small....

 

[Li'Kitsu]

The numbers might not be that different, but I don't think you can use the GOE to 'determine' who actually has better spins. It's like the spins were the unofficial judges toilet break - it's the technical element that gets overscored the most, IMO. We constantly see people with mediocre spins get pretty GOE, even if you have to wonder which GOE boxes they'd tick at all, or if the spins are actually pretty slow or lose speed while changing positions.

Looking at last season, Fernandez also has higher average GOE than DTen, if I didn't mess the numbers up (0,65 to 0,61). Does that make sense or Javi the better spinner to anyone?

(Although of course you can say 'Hanyu won't get an advantage from spins in competition', that's true. But Hanyu is a better spinner, even if PChan is a good one too, IMO)

 

[Marin]

The numbers might not be that different, but I don't think you can use the GOE to 'determine' who actually has better spins. It's like the spins were the unofficial judges toilet break - it's the technical element that gets overscored the most, IMO. We constantly see people with mediocre spins get pretty GOE, even if you have to wonder which GOE boxes they'd tick at all, or if the spins are actually pretty slow or lose speed while changing positions.

Looking at last season, Fernandez also has higher average GOE than DTen, if I didn't mess the numbers up (0,65 to 0,61). Does that make sense or Javi the better spinner to anyone?

(Although of course you can say 'Hanyu won't get an advantage from spins in competition', that's true. But Hanyu is a better spinner, even if PChan is a good one too, IMO)

 

[solani]

This gorgeous Spaniard who is known to enjoy his siestas

Haha, but he isn't so prone to injuries because of that. He has a very smart training regime and is very consistent despite that. Talented guy. But I agree, Hanyu and Chan should beat him when they're at their best, but if they're not Javier will be right there.
I have no idea who will be better next season, Chan or Hanyu. I think the fitter skater with lesser minor injuries will make it.

 

[Warwick360]

With all the "vs" talk, I'm feeling the beginning of the season can't come sooner. Why can't the season be longer than 6 months or less.

As for the spin, I thought it was a no brainer. Every time I see both Chan's and Yuzuru's spins, I think it's fairly obvious the latter has better security and variation and speed through every spin. Didn't patrick muck up somewhere that cost him the title? My memory fails me.

As for Javi, while he might not have the best position, could he have made more rotation that Denis for each spin? I prefer Denis in terms of spin but I'm not willing to go back to the videos to verify my possible theory. :think:

Again, the season can't come sooner and be longer.

 

[usethis2]

Hanyu receiving higher levels vs Chan receiving higher GOEs for their spins sounds about right to me. I know Hanyu does difficult positions but I do not feel that they are particularly well executed or pretty to look at. Chan does not pull off unique positions but his executions are textbook.

It is kind of rare these days to see textbook sit spins and camel spins.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

With all the "vs" talk, I'm feeling the beginning of the season can't come sooner. Why can't the season be longer than 6 months or less.

As for the spin, I thought it was a no brainer. Every time I see both Chan's and Yuzuru's spins, I think it's fairly obvious the latter has better security and variation and speed through every spin. Didn't patrick muck up somewhere that cost him the title? My memory fails me.

As for Javi, while he might not have the best position, could he have made more rotation that Denis for each spin? I prefer Denis in terms of spin but I'm not willing to go back to the videos to verify my possible theory. :think:

Again, the season can't come sooner and be longer.

I think Hanyu should get higher grade of execution on his spins with more difficult variations, but Chan has cleaner basic positions, IMO (particularly on the camel spin). As usethis said, it's rare to see clean, strong, basic positions (Machida also had a lovely camel). As for messing up on spins, both Chan and Hanyu have made spin errors in the past. Chan occasionally has a sloppy final spin and Hanyu has a tendency to lose control/speed as he does the back sit/jump/back sit.

 

[4everchan]

yup... that's how i feel too...chan's spins are usually so well centered with gorgeous lines. Yuzu's spins are more impressive but not always perfectly well executed... and as it was pointed out... not there that either one of them will gain so much points over the other to make a difference.... even footwork which is Patrick's absolute best element over the others will not gain him that much of an advantage....

Hanyu receiving higher levels vs Chan receiving higher GOEs for their spins sounds about right to me. I know Hanyu does difficult positions but I do not feel that they are particularly well executed or pretty to look at. Chan does not pull off unique positions but his executions are textbook.

It is kind of rare these days to see textbook sit spins and camel spins.

 

[Warwick360]

People are raving here about Chan's basic spins. I look back to the old videos and all I find are camel spin that aren't necessarily impressive in centring. If it was Joshua Farris on the other hand....

I know I digress by bringing Farris to the matter. Overall, I still (personally) find Hanyu's impressive, if talking about the basic camel. As for travelling, yup can't defend that when it does with the final sit spin.

But if we're truly going to talk about GOE, I am usually annoyed why Martinez doesn't get all +3s in his combination spin (the one with biellmann and I position and Illusion to boot) when it's not travelling. Him doing that impresses me more than what I see with Radionova (which is also gorgeous, I must add)

 

[4everchan]

perhaps you should open a who has the best spins thread

People are raving here about Chan's basic spins. I look back to the old videos and all I find are camel spin that aren't necessarily impressive in centring. If it was Joshua Farris on the other hand....

I know I digress by bringing Farris to the matter. Overall, I still (personally) find Hanyu's impressive, if talking about the basic camel. As for travelling, yup can't defend that when it does with the final sit spin.

But if we're truly going to talk about GOE, I am usually annoyed why Martinez doesn't get all +3s in his combination spin (the one with biellmann and I position and Illusion to boot) when it's not travelling. Him doing that impresses me more than what I see with Radionova (which is also gorgeous, I must add)

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Hanyu receiving higher levels vs Chan receiving higher GOEs for their spins sounds about right to me. I know Hanyu does difficult positions but I do not feel that they are particularly well executed or pretty to look at. Chan does not pull off unique positions but his executions are textbook.

It is kind of rare these days to see textbook sit spins and camel spins.

Hanyus Bielmann might be 'not particularly well executed', but I don't think anyone can really say that about his Donut spin. Or basically any other of his positions, especially the sit spin positions - where I would have never imagined anyone would say Chan had cleaner positions.
And even if you want to give Chan the cleaner positions - that would be one point about spins. There are others - like speed, where Hanyu is better (and he's particularly better at changing positions without losing speed. Unless he messes up of course). He also has greater flexibility, greater variance and even adds choreography to some of his spins by using his hands! That's IMO what really makes his spins better than PChans (and honestly most skaters spins). They're (mostly) an actual part of the choreo.

perhaps you should open a who has the best spins thread

Oh please do that. My big inner Jason fangirl wants to throw around more numbers and brag about how flawless he is

 

[treeloving]

Yuzuru's spin apart from camel and bielman is always well executed, the sit spin in particular!

 

[Warwick360]

perhaps you should open a who has the best spins thread

I thought about it, but I was beaten to it.

 

[Interspectator]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TELI674xQU0
Here's Chan's full SP. I'm firmly in the Yuzu camp, but Chan has such great speed to go along with his intricate steps, he's flying across the ice! Wow.
Some of his jumps are eked at the moment but it is very early in the season. Neither Yuzu or Chan do particularly well in the early season. What do you-all think of this SP?

On a Side note, I don't like the shirt...it doesn't do Chan any favors, I have a young nephew who happened upon me watching the video and he said and I quote "That man looks fat" :hopelessness: Kids. Anyway, maybe a better cut shirt in future comps?

 

[Violet Bliss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TELI674xQU0
Here's Chan's full SP. I'm firmly in the Yuzu camp, but Chan has such great speed to go along with his intricate steps, he's flying across the ice! Wow.
Some of his jumps are eked at the moment but it is very early in the season. Neither Yuzu or Chan do particularly well in the early season. What do you-all think of this SP?

On a Side note, I don't like the shirt...it doesn't do Chan any favors, I have a young nephew who happened upon me watching the video and he said and I quote "That man looks fat" :hopelessness: Kids. Anyway, maybe a better cut shirt in future comps?

The step sequence is incredible. Imagine him skating it at the end of the season!

Patrick wasn't wearing the costume for this pre season outing before the judges. I wonder who is designing his costume now, his girlfriend? He had a contract with Tu Ly up till the Sochi Olympics. I really liked what Ly did for him.

 

[Mathman]

Very cool.

I kind of wish he had gone with Frank Sinatra, though (if not Bobby Darin ).

 

[4everchan]

awesome steps… awesome program… jumps and spins and even the rest will get better… no need to worry about this in september…

even the costume will get better.. but if anyone thinks that patrick chan is fat, society has a huge issue…. wow….

 

[Mrs. P]

Very cool.

I kind of wish he had gone with Frank Sinatra, though (if not Bobby Darin ).

I agree with you there, but can't blame him for going with the fellow Canadian.

It was pretty good. I'd like him to show a bit more personality, but it's September, so I'm sure that will come.

 

[Interspectator]

awesome steps… awesome program… jumps and spins and even the rest will get better… no need to worry about this in september…

even the costume will get better.. but if anyone thinks that patrick chan is fat, society has a huge issue…. wow….

I find, in the case of children, it does not mean a negative thing. They just observe and say what comes to their mind first. Don't let a 5-year-old offend you.