2015 Skate Canada Mens Free Skate

[qwerty]

I actually found both Hanyu and Chan both rather touching; Hanyu more so in his SP, Chan in his LP.

Come GPF and Worlds, Chan needs to rotate that second quad though. Chan was helped tremendously with Hanyu essentially bombing his SP. That 7-point cushion had to have helped his mental game just a bit.

 

[Ophelia]

Yuzuru is just magnetic to watch, even when he's falling all over the ice (for me at least). His rawness is very compelling; he'll never be the epitome of refinement and polish that Patrick is.

 

[4everchan]

lol

He got 7% more. If Hanyu had fallen twice instead of once, Patrick would have gotten 14% more in PCSs.

I have just invented a new figure skating scoring rule! :yes:

 

[andromache]

Patrick as a statue is the perfect explanation. I can appreciate the refinement but emotionally I can only say "That's nice." It doesn't evoke anything. Yuzu is the complete opposite. His emotional commitment to his programs is unmatched. People who say these's no choreography or interpretation clearly don't "get" his Onmyoji program: watch the film, watch some kyogen, and research the Heian period, Abe no Seimei, and the art and practice of onmyodo. It's very authentic choreography, not som cheap, dumbed-down westernization so I can understand some not getting it.

I also agree with the Patrick as a statue. Yuzu has the emotional connection down, but when Patrick is ON like he was last night, the "cold and statuelike" quality he has turns into a level of sublimity--inspiring awe.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Murakami was holding back tears in his interview from the J media today. I felt such frustration for him. He has been doing so much better last year and this year but he's hitting a glass ceiling in scores...will he be able to break through? What can he do?

He needs to do 3Axel+2toe+2loop and 3lutz+3loop (was very exciting to see that in the SP), since he can't do 3toe in combination for whatever reason. Then just keep working on his PCS.

Or if he really wants to make a statement and max out his base value, then it would be this layout:

4Sal+1loop+3Sal
4Sal
3Axel+2Loop
----
3Lutz+3Loop
3Axel
3Toe
3Flip
2Axel

Also, he needs to get some kind of preceding footwork into the Quad in his SP. Right now there's absolutely nothing leading into it, so that is mandatory -GOE.

 

[chairmanmao]

If they did the same layout I'm pretty sure Hanyu would cream Chan 10/10. Hanyu's WR SP's prove that fact. Chan would need some serious gimme dats from the judges to cover his inferior 3A's. Chan's overscored WR WC2013 SP and the insane GOE on that badly landed 3A prove that fact. Ever heard of winning however dirty the result. Chan knows that all too often.

 

[Cleo]

Murakami was holding back tears in his interview from the J media today. I felt such frustration for him. He has been doing so much better last year and this year but he's hitting a glass ceiling in scores...will he be able to break through? What can he do?

1) Consistency of results.
2) He tends to run out of steam the last part of his FS and things slowed down (spins, etc.). So more conditioning.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Hanyu's quads and axels are insane, but Patrick's skating moves me to tears....its quality is sublime, I'm speechless.

His skating is just above and beyond the other guys. There are so many times I think he's going to fall because his blades generate such deep edges and the angle of the blade carving the ice is so extreme. If you've ever tried to skate that deep on your edges it's incredibly difficult and requires so much control. Most guys' blades are 80-90 degrees with respect to the ice, but I'm curious what angle Chan's would be because he leans so much into his edges.

I also think his arms are incredibly elegant throughout the program (something Hanyu could improve on in his basic stroking) and Chan is showing more personality and fire in his SP and FS than in the past.

That SP was messy for everyone but that FS was sensational.

Also, at the haters who are trying to trivialize Chan's win by implying that Hanyu essentially "gave it to him" by not skating his best. It's the same rhetoric that people used to trivialize Max's win simply because he outskated his competition, even though he had competitors with potentially higher BV.

 

[Mathman]

Well, I just got to see the men's final flight on big screen TV. No offense to Hanyu, Murakami, Nguyen, Rippon, etc., but Patrick was a man among boys. He was in total command of his performance. Someone may outpoint him, but no one can outskate him if he skates like that.

 

[NorthernDancers]

Well, I just got to see the men's final flight on big screen TV. No offense to Hanyu, Murakami, Nguyen, Rippon, etc., but Patrick was a man among boys. He was in total command of his performance. Someone may outpoint him, but no one can outskate him if he skates like that.

This. Could not have said it better. I hope to one day watch him compete live again. TV doesn't fully capture the speed and quality and power and effortlessness of his skating. It's truly an amazing experience to see him skate live.

 

[KwanIsALegend]

In a way I am kind of ok with Adam not getting on the podium. I don't want him to peak now. He has SC under his belt and can work from this event now. He will do the 4 lutz at some point and get full credit but it is not an easy jump and he has to go into it fully committed to landing it.
I told myself after years of following Michelle Kwan that I would never get that way about another skater and here I am getting all nervous before Adam skates.
He was up against a tough field at SC and landed in 4th so I don't think all is doom and gloom for Adam. He is improving. I don't want him to peak too soon but still would love for him to go to the GPF.

I am not a big fan of Chan. Yes, he is an incredible athlete and can do some crazy good footwork but something about him rubs me the wrong way. And this is oh so petty but his eyes drive me nuts.

 

[Ophelia]

Well, I just got to see the men's final flight on big screen TV. No offense to Hanyu, Murakami, Nguyen, Rippon, etc., but Patrick was a man among boys. He was in total command of his performance. Someone may outpoint him, but no one can outskate him if he skates like that.

Never say never.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

It is a 3 quad, 2 axel program. He needs some down time in it.

But when Max does 2 axels and 2 quads certain people take him over the coals for taking a break.

 

[Ophelia]

^Not me. Imma cut people some slack if their tech is already jam packed.

 

[krispy]

If they did the same layout I'm pretty sure Hanyu would cream Chan 10/10. Hanyu's WR SP's prove that fact. Chan would need some serious gimme dats from the judges to cover his inferior 3A's. Chan's overscored WR WC2013 SP and the insane GOE on that badly landed 3A prove that fact. Ever heard of winning however dirty the result. Chan knows that all too often.

Yeah cause this event didn't show how 3quads and 2 3A from Hanyu got beaten by a technically inferior skate

I love how Hanyu's fans scream inflation every chance they get because Hanyu never won a medal falling 5 times and even got a +1 for a hand down at this event.

Isn't it convenient to forget that Chan holds the WR score in the FS (in a GP event and not in the olympics where everyone gets inflated marks) so I don't know about the creaming part. Why did you think Hanyu felt the need to put an additional quad - for fun?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

If they did the same layout I'm pretty sure Hanyu would cream Chan 10/10. Hanyu's WR SP's prove that fact. Chan would need some serious gimme dats from the judges to cover his inferior 3A's. Chan's overscored WR WC2013 SP and the insane GOE on that badly landed 3A prove that fact. Ever heard of winning however dirty the result. Chan knows that all too often.

Wow, you must have been infuriated at Chan's victory over Hanyu here. lol

 

[hikki]

Sorry Yuzuru. Your PCS has been hugely over-scored. The judge who gave you 7s is brave but correct. Look at the angle of your body to the ice. You are stood vertically all the time. The let's-use-obscure-Japanese piece to appear artistic is easy and shallow just like your edges :big grin: I admire your work ethic and mental toughness, but credit shouldn't be given when undeserved.

Lol all the people who have seen Yuzuru live said he has deeper edge than on screen and among the fastest too. And some of them are ex skaters, just saying.
And SS is only one of the five among components.

I don't really like the notion of live spectators = elites. If you have an eye for it, I think you can see skating qualities on TV. As a non-expert skating fan, I'd like to think I can see there are so many dimensions in Patrick's moves, with twizzles in both directions one second, the spread eagle with centre of gravity incredibly low the next. He does these so effortlessly and it's not difficult to guess that has something to do with his edge control. In the FS, I'm sure you can see Yuzuru's centre stays high most of the time and you might or might not let this help guide your assessment of Yuzuru's SS/TR.

On a side note and incidentally, I did see Patrick and Yuzuru live in Nice 2012. And Patrick in Vancouver 2010. I wasn't that wowed by Patrick then but Yuzuru's R&J moved me a lot. Of course I was a huge Daisuke fan then though

On PE/CH/IN, os168 has put eloquently and I can only say I agree.

In terms of emotion... i think it is not a case of more is better but whether it is appropriate to the music. I'd say Patrick delivered to the music intentions consistently through out the entire performance. While Hanyu is fragmented... great first 1minute, then middling 2nd half, hit some great positions, but wilting towards the end while managing to hit some highlights but not consistent yet.

....Seimei's musical structure is also ALOT easier to skate to, regular beat, slow section mid point to allow him to takes things a bit easier, manage stamina better, and thus much more easier t to execute choreographically. Layout is more element based and get rewarded under base value anyway.

 

[MaxSwagg]

Yeah cause this event didn't show how 3quads and 2 3A from Hanyu got beaten by a technically inferior skate

I love how Hanyu's fans scream inflation every chance they get because Hanyu never won a medal falling 5 times and even got a +1 for a hand down at this event.

Isn't it convenient to forget that Chan holds the WR score in the FS (in a GP event and not in the olympics where everyone gets inflated marks) so I don't know about the creaming part. Why did you think Hanyu felt the need to put an additional quad - for fun?

He put in another quad because he like's to challenge himself. He only increased his BV by not even 5 points and it took Patrick getting tons of tens to only beat him by 4 points (with Yuzu getting a level 3 spin and step sequence). It's also convenient to forget that he has the OGM...and Patrick couldn't even pull that off when it was practically around his neck. People are being incredibly disrespectful to Yuzuru.

And don't even think about comparing Yuzuru to Max Aaron. That is insulting.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Yeah cause this event didn't show how 3quads and 2 3A from Hanyu got beaten by a technically inferior skate

I love how Hanyu's fans scream inflation every chance they get because Hanyu never won a medal falling 5 times and even got a +1 for a hand down at this event.

Isn't it convenient to forget that Chan holds the WR score in the FS (in a GP event and not in the olympics where everyone gets inflated marks) so I don't know about the creaming part. Why did you think Hanyu felt the need to put an additional quad - for fun?

This. People thought Hanyu couldn't lose to Chan with his content at the end of last season. And now he's upgraded his content and everyone (myself included) thought Chan would be defeated at Skate Canada. And Chan clearly won here.

And judges will always score skaters poorly with odd GOE.

But what this competition established was that at least in the judges' minds Chan is significantly enough the better overall skater - enough to make up for Hanyu's TES advantage and keep Chan competitive with him.

 

[krispy]

He put in another quad because he like's to challenge himself. He only increased his BV by not even 5 points and it took Patrick getting tons of tens to only beat him by 4 points (with Yuzu getting a level 3 spin and step sequence). It's also convenient to forget that he has the OGM...and Patrick couldn't even pull that off when it was practically around his neck. People are being incredibly disrespectful to Yuzuru.

And don't even think about comparing Yuzuru to Max Aaron. That is insulting.

I love it when you notice I was disrespectful to Yuzuru when its was a response to the typical insults and whining Hanyu's fan do against Chan (but I guess that part is okay)