2015 Skate Canada Mens Free Skate

[Meoima]

I don't really like the notion of live spectators = elites. If you have an eye for it, I think you can see skating qualities on TV.

:gclap: Most people beg to differ. I tell you this, when I saw Miki on screen, I thought she was :hpull: but when I saw her live, she is much better than on screen. There is something only matters when you see it in person.
As someone who worked in Classical music world, I can tell the HUGE difference of listening to music even from just High-end audio to going to the opera house to see artists live. It's A LOT difference. There is something you can only feel when you are actually there.

That said, I laugh at how you think Yuzuru should only get the same PCS score as Nam. Oh come one, do you know how Nam is on the ice? Watching live, even amateurs stated that "Nam is the slowest among them". And to think that you demand Yuzuru the same PCS score as Nam. Oh well I know whose fan you are. So let's agree to disagree.

 

[MaxSwagg]

I love it when you notice I was disrespectful to Yuzuru when its was a response to the typical insults and whining Hanyu's fan do against Chan (but I guess that part is okay)

Oh, no, don't try to flip this around...

 

[Interspectator]

I was pretty sure that Chan would beat Yuzu the first outing...since it has happened every time in the past. (Yuzu is never his best in his first GP outing) He usually peaks from GPF through to Japan Nationals, and if he is healthy, again at Worlds.
That's when we'll see them both at their best. -I hope.
So for now it's Chan's victory.
Let's see what unfolds.

 

[krispy]

Oh, no, don't try to flip this around...

Who flipped it around? I guess don't bother looking at the post I replied to but call me disrespecting Yuzuru then you do the exact same thing against Chan

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

And don't even think about comparing Yuzuru to Max Aaron. That is insulting.

Quite insulting...

Max has skated two clean SPs this season, Hanyu has yet to do one.

Max has a GP win, and Hanyu a GP silver.

Max wasn't at all expected to win his GP event but did, Hanyu was expected to win his GP event but lost.

You're right - there is no comparison. :sarcasm:

 

[MaxSwagg]

Who flipped it around? I guess don't bother looking at the post I replied to but call me disrespecting Yuzuru

I never said you were. I said "people". I read everything clearly.

 

[MaxSwagg]

Quite insulting...

Max has skated two clean SPs this season, Hanyu has yet to do one.

Max has a GP win, and Hanyu a GP silver.

Max wasn't at all expected to win his GP event but did, Hanyu was expected to win his GP event but lost.

You're right - there is no comparison. :sarcasm:

Two clean programs with absolutely no choreography, no transitions, manufactured and fake interpretation. Rehashing this again?

 

[Ophelia]

Quite insulting...

Max has skated two clean SPs this season, Hanyu has yet to do one.

Max has a GP win, and Hanyu a GP silver.

Max wasn't at all expected to win his GP event but did, Hanyu was expected to win his GP event but lost.

You're right - there is no comparison. :sarcasm:

Patrick has yet to do a clean SP too...just sayin'. I get that you're a Chan uber, but your Hanyu dislike is veering on biased.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Two clean programs with absolutely no choreography, no transitions, manufactured and fake interpretation. Rehashing this again?

No transitions?

You can say you don't think his transitions and choreography aren't effective but it's absolutely false to say his programs are devoid of it. Skaters - heck, even certain past Olympic champions - have gotten way higher TR and CH scores for far simpler programs. :sarcasm:

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Patrick has yet to do a clean SP too...just sayin'. I get that you're a Chan uber, but your Hanyu dislike is veering on biased.

I was comparing Max and Hanyu, since Maxswagg was so keen to.

If I was such a Chan uber, why didn't I predict that he would have won Skate Canada? I've said plenty of positive and negative things about all skaters whereas ubers/haters clearly veer one way or the other.

 

[MaxSwagg]

No transitions?

You can say you don't think his transitions and choreography aren't effective but it's absolutely false to say his programs are devoid of it. Skaters - heck, even certain past Olympic champions - have gotten way higher TR and CH scores for far simpler programs. :sarcasm:

Excuse me: bare minimum, mediocre choreography and transitions.

 

[Interspectator]

Please, let's not bicker.
Towards the end of these threads, the same opinions are re-hashed by a few posters over and over. Let's break the cycle.

Who had your favorite Costume of the guys at the FS?
Adam's Red Shirt?
Chan's White Noise Shirt?
Yuzu's Blinged-Out Shirt?
Murakami?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Oh, no, don't try to flip this around...

If you dish it, be prepared to take it. Just sayin'.

 

[Meoima]

Please, let's not bicker.
Towards the end of these threads, the same opinions are re-hashed by a few posters over and over. Let's break the cycle.

Who had your favorite Costume of the guys at the FS?
Adam's Red Shirt?
Chan's White Noise Shirt?
Yuzu's Blinged-Out Shirt?
Murakami?

Definitively not Yuzuru's lettuce thing. :hpull: or merman costume whatever you call it

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Excuse me: bare minimum, mediocre choreography and transitions.

Well that is your opinion, which you are very much entitled to.

Even if the trained, experienced ISU judges' scores and results thoroughly contradict said opinion.

 

[MaxSwagg]

If you dish it, be prepared to take it. Just sayin'.

What did I run away from? I wasn't directing that portion of the comment towards krispy and I"m sorry if they were mistaken. Patrick's fans take things out of hand and over the top. I'm not vicious. I don't like vicious.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Also, at the haters who are trying to trivialize Chan's win by implying that Hanyu essentially "gave it to him" by not skating his best.

Hanyu didn't give it to Chan, the dumb scoring system did via Hanyu receiving 0 points for his combination in the SP. If Hanyu had won the SP, as he deserved to, then the two of them would have been looked at in a different light in the LP. Instead, there was a feeling of Hanyu "trying to catch-up" after the SP. Not that such a thing should influence the judging anyway, but of course it did. Although, Chan's skating is generally overscored anyway, +2's GOE constantly handed to him for +1 quality elements. Even when messing up in the SP he still got plenty of unwarranted GOE for his spins there, plus level credit for the last position of his flying sit in both programs, even though it doesn't deserve credit as a difficult variation.

Patrick was a man among boys.

Eh, sounds like traditional attitude of machismo here. Patrick will always be more stout/muscular than Hanyu and look "more manly". His style of skating shouldn't be upheld as the one and only best.

Someone may outpoint him, but no one can outskate him if he skates like that.

Hanyu in his SP already shows the ability to outskate him, though? He uses his edges in even more dynamic ways. Spread eagle into 3Axel with speed and right into a spread eagle again on the landing and holding it for a long time. When will Patrick ever?

Brian Boitano already did it as well, all the way back in 1988 - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1onggt_brian-boitano-1988-calgary-long-program_sport. THAT is wonderful skating skills, in service of complete choreography and interpretation. Chan hasn't yet shown the ability to deliver a LP like that. Even in terms of purely the usage of the skates, the way Patrick moves tends to be the same from program to program. He doesn't move his skates directly in relation to the beat and character of the music, rather in the same kind of way that is comfortable to him. Yes, it's phenomenal edge quality and control and all that, but it's not fully skating a PROGRAM. It's not using the blades to become one with the music.

These are the details that need to be assessed better by the judges and it's something that Patrick could perhaps improve on. Could he ever give a performance like this, for example - Matt Savoie, The Mission? Who knows, maybe 2 years from now we'll see Patrick's skating and look back and say "wow, his programs in the past weren't as dynamic and emotional as this." But how can he ever improve when everyone is telling him he's already perfect in those areas?

I think this is the best Patrick has ever skated - 2010 Worlds SP. It's the most his skating has ever moved as a choreographic whole and it really is a glorious, stunning piece of work. There are still a couple sticky points I have with that program - the footwork rules demanded more movement than was necessary for the straightline step sequence (although the footwork sequences in this program, particularly the circular, are SO much better than the ones skaters have to do now), and the spins are a bit too repetitive with all those catch-leg sit positions and edge changes, but this is a very strong model of CoP skating and what Patrick can do.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Patrick's fans take things out of hand and over the top. I'm not vicious. I don't like vicious.

Uh... You just referred to Max as having "absolutely no choreography, no transitions, manufactured and fake interpretation".... And referred to his programs as having the "bare minimum" and being "mediocre".

 

[MaxSwagg]

Uh... You just referred to Max as having "absolutely no choreography, no transitions, manufactured and fake interpretation".... And referred to his programs as having the "bare minimum" and being "mediocre".

Yes, I did. I clearly expressed my thoughts about him. Most people don't like clarity though.

 

[hikki]

:gclap: Most people beg to differ. I tell you this, when I saw Miki on screen, I thought she was :hpull: but when I saw her live, she is much better than on screen. There is something only matters when you see it in person.

It's becoming quite difficult to follow your logic. You are using Miki as an example because you thought her SS was great on TV but not when you saw her live. Great. Could it have been that Miki's SS was never that great, and you couldn't see that on TV in the first place? I'm using Miki as an example because well, it was your example. Btw I can appreciate some aspects of Miki's skating.

I'm not denying the obvious benefits of live viewing, especially when it comes to speed and ice coverage. Like I said, I have seen skating live, too. But my point is lack of live viewing experience should not be some sort of final card to dismiss some aspects of SS assessment, without an attempt to back it up, as I cannot see you doing other than saying that you know many people and that you are a classical music expert (which is great).

there are so many dimensions in Patrick's moves, with twizzles in both directions one second, the spread eagle with centre of gravity incredibly low the next. He does these so effortlessly and it's not difficult to guess that has something to do with his edge control. In the FS, I'm sure you can see Yuzuru's centre stays high most of the time and you might or might not let this help guide your assessment of Yuzuru's SS/TR.

Do you see this, Meoima? Or are you "agreeing to disagree"? These are not my opinions though, so I'm not sure how you can agree or disagree. And I see that in the same manner you did not address the points mentioned by os168.

: That said, I laugh at how you think Yuzuru should only get the same PCS score as Nam. Oh come one, do you know how Nam is on the ice? Watching live, even amateurs stated that "Nam is the slowest among them". And to think that you demand Yuzuru the same PCS score as Nam. :

Sorry I'm confused again as I never mentioned Nam anywhere.