Chan v. Hanyu: 2015-16

[Khoai]

I think Boyang will be upping his tech content too though. He might show up in 2018 with like...5 or 6 quads.

And you assume Mr. Jin will land them all? It will be just jumping pass after jumping pass because he takes the whole rink both the length and the width to jump a quad and he does nothing before that, it will not be a program because there will be no choreography in between.
Jumps are most important in FS, but there are much more in FS than just jumps.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

I think Boyang will be upping his tech content too though. He might show up in 2018 with like...5 or 6 quads.

He is already showing up with 6 quads, SP+LP considered

The thing is, Boyang has the 4Lz, which is a huge advantage, but we don't know how much it is physically possible for him to up his content even more. It's massive by now already, and h has some understandable stamina issues with it as of now (it seems). And I can't speak for Chan, but Hanyu is practicing the 4Lo, it looks scary awesome when he nails it, so he could go for 3 different quads too. Fernandez can also do the 4Lo, and DTen is at least practicing a 2nd quad (4S, he even thought about adding it for worlds). So the men know they have to up their game, and I'd say they're quite prepared for it. How that all works out in the end - affecting all of their health and consistency - in 2,5 years from now is impossible to say. But the men know what they have to do I'm sure.

That said, Boyang might kick some serious behinds at this years worlds already

 

[alia jackson]

Should this be discussed in the men's power ranking thread http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?56373-2015-2016-Men-s-Power-Rankings

 

[Khoai]

I do not have faith in consistency when you talk about the men, and Mr. Jin when he bombs he bombs terribly too. Do not forget last year JGPF. And even when he lands his jumps, there are so many defects in the performances. This is a sport but you need to be presentable. Universe never gives you anything for free, it will take something back.

 

[4everchan]

just a bit of history... joubert was a jerk to buttle and other skaters including chan at that time, who were doing well without a quad... this is the issue i am trying to show... you can quote anyone without the proper context and make them sound great or awful.

Yes Patrick was very nice kid when laughed at Joubert in 2010, I remember everything perfectly, i remember junior Patrick too, I am old woman with good memory. as for Yuzu, he always sends toys to different kindergardens and hospitals, in Shanghai 2015 he apologized that he couldn't take all toys to Japan and asked staff to send them in necessary places, later volunteers noticed his mom collecting every fan letter from toys to take with them so please read about him a bit more,... but you believe to own assumptions

 

[4everchan]

look, as i said, i do not make assumptions about yuzu, simply showing how things can be quoted in different manners... who am I blaming? not yuzu.. not patrick... i am simply blaming patrick's haters... patrick never said that yuzu and javi were garbage at wc.. all he said is that he didn't see anything special... IT IS THE TRUTH... there was nothing special in the men's FP in 2015 WC... we all agree about this... (the skate that was noticed was Ge's, not the top 5) while in pairs, dance and ladies, there were huge achievements.... what he said wasn't against the other men... it was simply saying... well ... it is still at the level that i was at in 2013-14... considering he was thinking about coming back, it makes sense he analyzed the field like that...

patrick has cameras on him all the time too... and does a lot of charity work himself too..but somehow, the media doesn't show it... why? because there are so many chan haters out there that it may just be better to entertain that hate...

you have no idea how it is to have a username referring to chan lol

The hole in this argument is that the ONLY person who is misunderstanding or twisting Yuzu's words in this way is you...and even you admit to not believing it. Is it possible to misunderstand a compliment? Yes, but is it likely that Yuzu's compliment of other skaters is taken as an insult...obviously no. Or others would have commented on it. Right now it's just you, and you don't believe it.
Where as Patrick's words are not being twisted or misunderstood. They are being quoted exactly as he said them. And exactly as he meant them. It's not the same thing at all. It's not just his recent interview that has come off in this way, but I won't dig into the past and bring it all up. Hopefully he's gone past that now and will be more gracious in interviews.

And yes, though Yuzu is NOT perfect, he is quite nice. He does donate his Poohs to Schools and Hospitals...and if I start a list of nice things he's done it will be very long indeed. Yuzu has cameras on him all the time, on stage off stage, whenever he is in public and what do these invasive cameras find? That he is polite and respectful to everyone. That's all.

 

[Interspectator]

look, as i said, i do not make assumptions about yuzu, simply showing how things can be quoted in different manners... who am I blaming? not yuzu.. not patrick... i am simply blaming patrick's haters... patrick never said that yuzu and javi were garbage at wc.. all he said is that he didn't see anything special... IT IS THE TRUTH... there was nothing special in the men's FP in 2015 WC... we all agree about this... (the skate that was noticed was Ge's, not the top 5) while in pairs, dance and ladies, there were huge achievements.... what he said wasn't against the other men... it was simply saying... well ... it is still at the level that i was at in 2013-14... considering he was thinking about coming back, it makes sense he analyzed the field like that...

patrick has cameras on him all the time too... and does a lot of charity work himself too..but somehow, the media doesn't show it... why? because there are so many chan haters out there that it may just be better to entertain that hate...

you have no idea how it is to have a username referring to chan lol

Can be, but are not, because the comments Yuzu made were positive and complimentary. Positive vs Negative...there is a difference you know.
Just because someone thinks that Patrick said rude things in his interviews and in the Kiss and Cry does not make them a hater.
When you say negative things about your competition, you can expect to be scrutinized negatively in return. So it's no surprise that fans reacted in this way to Chan's comments.

 

[4everchan]

i disagree. So i guess I will give it a rest... I will just wink when I see a negative comment about Patrick... and move on
last thought: if we, fans, are so keen to notice that a skater has been negative towards others, why are we in turn, negative as well towards him/others? two bads don't make it better

Can be, but are not, because the comments Yuzu made were positive and complimentary. Positive vs Negative...there is a difference you know.
Just because someone thinks that Patrick said rude things in his interviews and in the Kiss and Cry does not make them a hater.
When you say negative things about your competition, you can expect to be scrutinized negatively in return. So it's no surprise that fans reacted in this way to Chan's comments.

 

[MaxSwagg]

People try to do these little tests to show Yuzu's words can be twisted. Lol They never succeed.

 

[4everchan]

nope..if by people you refer to me, i'll just precise one thing: i am not trying to twist yuzu's words in particular, just showing how anybody can give anything said by anyone a different meaning depending on context.... people are successful with chan because there are enough haters that's all.

People try to do these little tests to show Yuzu's words can be twisted. Lol They never succeed.

so, in other words, you twisted my words see

 

[HanDomi]

this thread should be closed until another Chanyu rematch :taunt:

 

[4everchan]

i agree

this thread should be closed until another Chanyu rematch :taunt:

 

[blueberryhill]

just a bit of history... joubert was a jerk to buttle and other skaters including chan at that time, who were doing well without a quad... this is the issue i am trying to show... you can quote anyone without the proper context and make them sound great or awful.

I remember 2008 so well! When Jeff was 1st after the sp I thought this was as good as it gets. I remember trying to calculate after Patrick finished his lp how many places Jeff could drop to ensure that Canada would get three spots for 2009 worlds. After Jeff won, that afternoon I went out and bought a lottery ticket thinking that another miracle might be possible too! (Sadly, I didn't win the lotto!)

Last year, I met Jeff and I wonder how he would have reacted to this story. Since, I remembered that he told his parents not to make the trip to Sweden that year because he didn't think it was his year, he shouldn't be too upset with me for my "lack of faith".

Instead, what I did say was that I thought "he is a great choreographer" to which he replied with a big smile and in that chipper Buttle fashion "Thank you!".

But oh 2008. That was a good year! (Buttle, Virtue/Moir, Dube/Davison)

 

[blueberryhill]

Yes Patrick was very nice kid when laughed at Joubert in 2010, I remember everything perfectly, i remember junior Patrick too, I am old woman with good memory. as for Yuzu, he always sends toys to different kindergardens and hospitals, in Shanghai 2015 he apologized that he couldn't take all toys to Japan and asked staff to send them in necessary places, later volunteers noticed his mom collecting every fan letter from toys to take with them so please read about him a bit more,... but you believe to own assumptions

I wanted to expand on what 4everchan said. Since there was an accusation that Patrick's fans engage in "revisionist history" wherever possible I have provided a link. (I hope all the links work properly.)

At the 2008 WC after Brian Joubert finished second to Jeffrey Buttle he made some comments that characterize as "unsportsmanlike". Everybody can decide for themselves on whether or not they were appropriate.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/w...ttle-wins-world-figure-skating-title-1.704071

I remember this, but cannot find a link for, that Joubert also referred to Buttle and 3rd place finisher as "Nancy boys" which was interpreted by some as a veiled reference to their sexuality. If anyone else out there can either refute or corroborate pls let me know.

At 2009 WC Chan called out Joubert in an attempt to defend Buttle for his comments.
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/mar/25/sports/sp-elliott-skate25

I remember, but cannot find a link for, that Joubert and Chan "made their peace" before the WC ended and at press conference for the 2009 podium finishers there was a really cute moment where Joubert asked Chan to translate a question from french to english for him.

Marin, if Chan and Joubert can get over it, why can't you, "an old woman with good memory" (your words, not mine) get over it too? In your post you said 2010, so if there is another incident that I'm unaware of please bring it to my attention. (Or maybe your memory is not that good after all.)

I'm sure this won't change your mind about Patrick but here is a link about him raising $12,160 for a hospital.
http://www.aspac.ca/news.php?year=2014&newsid=44

This is an ebay auction where his replica 2014 Olympic skating outfit was auctioned off on for charity.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Patrick-Chan...4-Short-Program-Skating-Outfit-/251531302424?

On his Twitter feed, he, along with Jeremy Abbot, Alissa Czisny, Weaver/Poje, visiting a children's hospital. https://twitter.com/pchiddy (Aug 19th)
There is also other evidence of fundraising efforts in recent days on Twitter.

Finally, I don't know what the policies are in Japan, but in Canada stuffed toys that have been thrown on the ice cannot be donated to hospitals unless that have been dry-cleaned; as result most end up the the landfills.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...-and-sundry-other-projectiles/article7551576/

As an avid environmentalist and mindful of the looming landfill crisis, I hope all those Pooh bears at Skate Canada 2015 were either dry-cleaned and then donated to Canadian hospitals (thank you!!!) or shipped back to Japan. I certainly hope they didn't end up clogging up a Canadian landfill.

 

[blueberryhill]

I'm not going to say that you are completely wrong with what you are saying, because many discussions on forums do get to that level. But you have chosen a really unfortunate time and place to make this point. In this example, nobody is twisting Patrick's words, because there is no need for any twisting. He simply wasn't very smart with his answer here and said something that was rather insulting. He said he fast-forwarded to their big jumps and didn't actually watch the rest of their programs. But then he went ahead and judged it anyway. Unless he's psychic, I find it hard to imagine how he can judge something that he hasn't seen. It's like me saying that I don't like you hairdo. How would I know? I haven't seen it, I can't judge.

I'm offering an explanation/theory of why Patrick gets caught into saying things that give his bashers the fuel they need.

I've been fortunate to meet and speak to Patrick a few times. I'm just a fan and if we should meet again I don't know if he'll remember me.

I met him for the first time in May 2012 at a fundraiser. That morning, I learned on a forum that he was changing his choreographer from Lori Nichol to as yet unnamed one. There were probably only 2 figure skating fans in attendance - me and my friend. I barely spoke to him as there wasn't much opportunity. I knew he had a few hectic days and looked tired but he was gracious to all who attended.

Right at the end of the evening Patrick walked passed us and I offhandedly said to my friend that we should ask Patrick who his new choreographer would be. She convinced me to go for it.

I caught up with Patrick and said "So, are you going to tell me who your new choreographer will be?" I saw him stiffened and there was an uncomfortable silence. I immediately sized up the situation and realized that he didn't want to share this information with me and yet he was unsure how to answer without offending. I then said light-heartedly "Oh I was just hoping for a scoop." With that Patrick relaxed and said in a VERY playful, bantering tone "It's a secret." That concluded my first fan encounter with Patrick Chan.

I had sensed he was uncomfortable and I backed off. I respected his boundaries and his reply was smart and diplomatic. A typical North American reporter on the other hand would seize the moment and would jumped in for the kill. I really don't blame them because they know their job is measured by giving their readers what they want which is controversy.

By contrast, I feel that the Japanese press respects their stars and want to paint them in a positive light because that is what their readers want.

That's the hand that Patrick was dealt with and play with it he must. I for one, would love for him to stop giving interviews; everything that I love about him is said on the ice. Why subject yourself to criticism when there's nothing to gain?

Having seen him up close I am confident that there was no intent to bash anyone and for me intent matters. For example, Joannie Rochette made a rude, terrible remark after Patrick won the olympic silver rather than gold. They were her words no question about it but upon closer inspection it wasn't what it appeared to be. There was no intent to malign. Case closed.

I hope I've given you something new about Patrick and why I have the perspective that I do. I hope you will one day have a chance to meet Patrick Chan. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

 

[MaxSwagg]

No one is saying he's a "bad guy" but his comments time and time again come across as digs...it's a recurring theme.

 

[4everchan]

thank you for expanding with facts, links data on what I have been trying to say. You have done it with a very eloquent manner!!!!

I wanted to expand on what 4everchan said. Since there was an accusation that Patrick's fans engage in "revisionist history" wherever possible I have provided a link. (I hope all the links work properly.)

At the 2008 WC after Brian Joubert finished second to Jeffrey Buttle he made some comments that characterize as "unsportsmanlike". Everybody can decide for themselves on whether or not they were appropriate.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/w...ttle-wins-world-figure-skating-title-1.704071

I remember this, but cannot find a link for, that Joubert also referred to Buttle and 3rd place finisher as "Nancy boys" which was interpreted by some as a veiled reference to their sexuality. If anyone else out there can either refute or corroborate pls let me know.

At 2009 WC Chan called out Joubert in an attempt to defend Buttle for his comments.
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/mar/25/sports/sp-elliott-skate25

I remember, but cannot find a link for, that Joubert and Chan "made their peace" before the WC ended and at press conference for the 2009 podium finishers there was a really cute moment where Joubert asked Chan to translate a question from french to english for him.

Marin, if Chan and Joubert can get over it, why can't you, "an old woman with good memory" (your words, not mine) get over it too? In your post you said 2010, so if there is another incident that I'm unaware of please bring it to my attention. (Or maybe your memory is not that good after all.)

I'm sure this won't change your mind about Patrick but here is a link about him raising $12,160 for a hospital.
http://www.aspac.ca/news.php?year=2014&newsid=44

This is an ebay auction where his replica 2014 Olympic skating outfit was auctioned off on for charity.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Patrick-Chan...4-Short-Program-Skating-Outfit-/251531302424?

On his Twitter feed, he, along with Jeremy Abbot, Alissa Czisny, Weaver/Poje, visiting a children's hospital. https://twitter.com/pchiddy (Aug 19th)
There is also other evidence of fundraising efforts in recent days on Twitter.

Finally, I don't know what the policies are in Japan, but in Canada stuffed toys that have been thrown on the ice cannot be donated to hospitals unless that have been dry-cleaned; as result most end up the the landfills.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...-and-sundry-other-projectiles/article7551576/

As an avid environmentalist and mindful of the looming landfill crisis, I hope all those Pooh bears at Skate Canada 2015 were either dry-cleaned and then donated to Canadian hospitals (thank you!!!) or shipped back to Japan. I certainly hope they didn't end up clogging up a Canadian landfill.

 

[TheGrandSophy]

Beside all else though, 4everchan, are you seriously saying that anyone who says that they don't like some of what Chan says in interviews and think it sounds arrogant or unclassy are 'haters'?

I just don't get it. What is wrong with loving someone, being a huge fan and still saying, "Yeah, he sometimes has foot in mouth syndrome. That really does sound a bit off. I think he is a really nice guy but he needs to think before he speaks"? I've sure said that about people of which I'm a fan!

 

[Warwick360]

Finally, I don't know what the policies are in Japan, but in Canada stuffed toys that have been thrown on the ice cannot be donated to hospitals unless that have been dry-cleaned; as result most end up the the landfills.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...-and-sundry-other-projectiles/article7551576/

Well, hospital isn't the only option. There are children charities. I remember B.Eurosport guys, mentioning this event....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-hockey-game-given-children-s-charities.html
I doubt the people handling them, ended up dry cleaning each and every one of those teddies.

 

[JayW]

Since this thread is about Chan-Hanyu, I would like to ask one question:

Does Chan plan to add another Quad?